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Blown Turbo, Stuck EGR Valve or something else??

dazzling2865 May 5, 2015

  1. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    Hi All,

    I am pulling my hair out with my 2006 2.0tdi (79,000 miles).

    Last week on starting the car juddered/misfired for about 3 seconds on start up (unusually). Then it became apparent something was wrong as lots of white smoke from the exhausts and smell of burning. I drove it for about 4 miles to a garage and on arrival they were immediately sure that the turbo had failed (based on wisps of smoke coming from the exhaust when the car was parked up and not running).

    After a few more days I had may car back with a new turbo and some £1400 lighter. Today (3 days and less than 100 miles later) the car started churning out white smoke again and I have had to leave it parked up for the garage to look at again tomorrow.

    Now, a 3rd party who has some knowledge of diesels and Audi in particular has told me that the problem is more likely the EGR valve and this would have cost me significantly less.

    Any ideas people? And also if this is the case where I stand with the garage as I don't really have another £300-£400 to part with for the EGR valve?

    Cheers
     
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  3. SDHA4SLine

    SDHA4SLine Registered User

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    I purchased my egr (oe Siemens vdo) for £150 from eurocarparts, and it's about half hour to fit it (plus a bit of coding apparently)

    £1400 for a turbo:eek: was this at a main dealer?
     
  4. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    £800 + VAT for turbo, £200+ VAT for the turbo pipe (apparently cracked) + oil+filter +£400 labour. Not main dealer, just smallish garage that seems to work with lots of new cars (used for my MOTs for years). Took it there also as was closest when problem started and didn't want to cause more damage.

    I am getting more suspicious by the hour as now been told it is very unusual to get the old turbo back (left in box in car) as Garrett turbo are service exchange. Now thinking been charged for a recon. Also been told today symptoms sound like a cracked cylinder head and water getting into bores and then into hot exhaust etc. (so hoping this not true as not sure where I stand if turbo was never to blame). I never lost power despite the smoke which did confuse me when they said it was turbo failure.

    Playing waiting game now but as car only worth about 5.5K, having just spent nearly £1.5K seems like throwing good money away.
     
  5. SDHA4SLine

    SDHA4SLine Registered User

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    £800 for a garret suggests to me it's brand new none recon, none exchange unit. But £400 labour sounds very expensive. If the pipes were both oil feed and return pipes and genuine audi then that price is about right.

    As far as o know blown turbo = loss of power and blue smoke. White smoke is indeed an indication of water vapour from coolant leak. There are certain heads that suffer from cracks but not sure which ones though. Try a quick search and you should find out if yours an effected one.

    Have you noticed coolant level dropping at all?
     
  6. SDHA4SLine

    SDHA4SLine Registered User

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    your best next move is to get it scanned via vcds for error codes. Should be around £40 at an Indy or put out a shout on here via vcds map for a fellow member to help
     
  7. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    Thanks mate, know a guy (old next door neighbour who works for Mondial and fully trained audi electrical etc) so if I have to pull car away from this garage then that will be my first step (for codes etc.).

    What is gripping me is that I took it to a garage so that they would diagnose and fix the right part (or at least think carefully about running up a big bill on an unrelated part). The symptoms were obvious (a LOT of white smoke - looking like a steam train) and oil/diesel smell. So would have expected the garage to question/test more before simply replacing the turbo. I guess if I went to the doctors with a pain in my chest, I would want a diagnosis before a bypass op, just in case the pain was unrelated! Not the best analogy but you get my point. I fear the garage now telling me I need another 1-2K spent. Surely they have some responsibility?

    Cheers
     
  8. stevegrass777

    stevegrass777 Registered User

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    White steam/smoke is egr cooler putting water in the engine.take the water pipes off it and bypass it to see if it clears.
     
  9. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    Big thanks. I'll relay it to "the experts"!
     
  10. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    Well over 3 weeks since I first took my car into the garage (and apart from having it back for 3 days) they still have it and admit they are at a loss. Getting p'd off now. Fault comes and goes (some is definately white and oil/diesel smell).

    I am reluctant to just drive the car away to another garage (and a new bill) when they have virtually agreed with me that the turbo was likely not the original culprit. They never return my calls and I had to turn up today unannounced and now they promising a head pressure test (but it's not losing water or oil in water/water in oil) so I am starting to believe from a 3rd party what I hear that it's overfuelling (stuck injector?). Garage say not possible as no fault codes BUT does this show up as a fault code?

    Worst case I ask them to put my old turbo back on, refund me £800 and then use this towards my next bill. As I have the old turbo is there anything I can look at? No play in the impeller as far as I can see and turns freely.

    Thanks people!
     
  11. SDHA4SLine

    SDHA4SLine Registered User

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    Did they check the EGR cooler ?

    Also just for your information (in case they try to do it the expensive mechanical way) you can get and electric compression test done in ten mins. It won't tell you where the compression leak is but at least put you on the right track. Then you know the having a proper compression test is not a waste of money.

    I just had mine done this way, the guy that did it says they measure the current of the starter motor and use some clever software to work out if compression loss is present. They stuck one connection on battery and ther on starter motor and that was it apparently. I had this done and full vcds scan for £27!

    Waiting for them to buy some new kit that enables them to do another electronic compression test that will identify which cylinder and if it's inlet/exhaust valve or piston ring wear that's causing compression loss.

    They're in Hinckley if you're within distance of there I can pass the details on to you.

    Regards
    Steve
     
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  13. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    Thanks Steve. Unfortunately near Manchester so Hinckley not really an option.

    To be honest I have lost faith in the garage. I am thinking they are out of their depth (which begs the question why change the turbo and not refer me to a Audi or Diesel specialist!). It's been all about the turbo and engine codes and so just going round in circles. My problem is I don't want to drive it away and let their liability end. Best case they fix soon or next best case they refund me for the turbo (probably want to put the old turbo back on if I force their hand).

    Never again will I buy a diesel. Seems they a fraught with issues after 3+ years (just outside of warranty!).
     
  14. stevegrass777

    stevegrass777 Registered User

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    Does it look like this, have you tried bypassing the coolant pipes that go into the egr cooler,they are very prone to leaking
     
  15. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    Thanks! I will talk to the 'experts' tomorrow and tell them to look at this!

    Almost a much smoke as that. What is weird is that it runs OK for a while (did a 90 mile journey) then started up next morning and back to square one.

    Not typical turbo failure symptoms either. Grrrrrr......
     
  16. stevegrass777

    stevegrass777 Registered User

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    Any good mechanic can instantly know the difference in smell and opperence between diesel smoke,oil smoke and steam.Oil smoke and diesel smoke smell competly different
     
    dazzling2865 likes this.
  17. markspark

    markspark Registered User

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    If the egr cooler is at fault it will normally clear after the initial start up once the engine has got warm, it will then reappear once the car has been stood. You will also notice some coolant loss
     
  18. SootySport

    SootySport Registered User

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    As you are in Manchester, Awesome GTI are your way and are experts in these matters. I can't help thinking your poor car will be some time on the original repairers list of things to do. Nothing wrong in going somewhere else to have it fixed and then when done, going back to the original garage to sort out a rebate if they did something wrong.
     
  19. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    Thanks. No coolant loss as far as can be seen.
     
  20. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    Hi mate, yes in Manchester. They 'clueless garage' yesterday took it to 2 other garages for advice. One said likely head (despite supposedly passing a compression test on Saturday) and the other said DPF so back to square one. I am reluctant to drive it away and start running up another big bill somewhere else as because they screwed up by fitting the turbo I want them to have ownership of the problem until they conclude or I fear I will lose the near £1500 turbo fitted cost even with a battle/legal.

    It just beggars belief that after over 3 weeks they still none the wiser.
     
  21. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    Just does it randomly and almost from stone cold.
     
  22. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    Well after almost 5 weeks I have had to pull my car out of the garage and agree a £1000 refund of the £1450 associated with the uneccessary repair. Have spoke to a few garages and seems nobody can be sure if it is water or diesel coming out of the exhaust as 'smoke'.

    I'll never buy another 2nd hand diesel again. Seems they are far more trouble than they are worth.

    Might drive it down to Awesome GTI tomorrow as a least resort!
     
  23. gary_a4_quattro

    gary_a4_quattro Registered User

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    Not sure if this might be any help, however I was talking to a mate at the weekend - he had a B7 2.0 tdi 170 from new which developed this issue - fortunately it was still within warranty. Anyways when he took it into Audi, they diagnosed head porousity almost immediately, there was a warranty code / technical bulletin covering this issue. (it didnt use / loose any coolant, but knowing my friend he was at the dealers the next day after the problem started to show itself !

    I'm seeing him tonight so I'll dig a bit more info and see if he can remember any further details, let you know tomorrow.
     
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  24. SootySport

    SootySport Registered User

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    Good news from the original garage. At least they were seemingly fair with your invoice, basically a new turbo fitted for £450. Good luck at Awesome, I'm sure they will find out the cause of your woes.
     
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  25. SDHA4SLine

    SDHA4SLine Registered User

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    Yeah agreed, £450 for fitted new turbo is bargain, you may not think it but you scored there really. One thing you don't have to worry about, plus if your old one is fine you should be able to get a few more pounds back by selling it on
     
  26. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    Thanks :)
     
  27. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    Thanks. I'll bang the old Turbo on eBay, can't vouch for it now off the car but no issues with it on. Kind of a result I agree but 5 weeks with no car and loads of hassle has been painful
     
  28. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    WELL.....I picked the car up and once again NO smoke. Drove it for 10 miles, let it run and get hot and still no smoke. I just want rid of it now as lost faith but as soon as I drive it into 'webuyanycrap.com' it will bound to smoke (and guess they may have comeback on me too?).

    Seems no pressure in expansion bottle based on this video when running (so seems less likely head):

    Video at: https://vid.me/9bwB

    I'll wait for smoke one day this week again (hopefully police don't pull me as it's bad when it starts) and then drive it straight into Awesome GTI.

    *** ANNOYING ***

    Cheers
     
  29. Cyrix

    Cyrix Registered User

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    Why is the expansion bottle so full? zero room for expansion in there.
     
  30. SDHA4SLine

    SDHA4SLine Registered User

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    Have you tried pulling off the engine cover and looking underneath at the foam? Is it covered in crud/oil? When my egr cooler destroyed itself the underside of my cover was drenched in crud.

    By the way it may be worth you calling a few Audi dealers to check if there is a recall on your car for egr cooler as I have read there were some people that have said they were called back in by dealers for this. Worth a couple of phone calls just in case there is one.

    May as well check for injector recall whilst you're at it
     
  31. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    Good point. I think they have messed with coolant as very 'pink' suggesting more antifreeze than I recall. No idea if they had to mess with coolant when replacing the turbo but looking at it now standing it's been overfilled.

    cr42kRYO_emIEe2yh7RNl8U_LGFUzCh9NbQg9rHOGcU.jpg
     
  32. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    Called Audi HQ yesterday as someone suggested. They suggested no outstanding recall work due on car. Will take cover off later and have a look. Thanks.
     
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  34. Cyrix

    Cyrix Registered User

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    They may have had to drop some of the coolant, depends if they disconnected the EGR cooler (above the turbo) or just moved it out of the way.

    The pulsating on the fluid as shown in the video is from the coolant being returned to the header via the hose at the top, usually you wouldn't notice that as the return wouldn't normally be fully submerged.
     
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  35. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    Thank you.
     
  36. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    Now got engine management light on and this code which appears not to exist!!
     

    Attached Files:

  37. CashOne

    CashOne Registered User

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    looks like I also have same problem!
    Here is my VIDEO how it looks

    but i have smoke sometimes, like 2 times in a week or 2 times in a day and no more all week
     
  38. dazzling2865

    dazzling2865 Registered User

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    I sold mine in the end as the problem disappeared for a few days and I gave up on the garage. I won't buy a modern diesel again, especially Audi unless it's new/nearly new and under manufacturers warranty.
     

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