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Black S3, first audi

Cookiez Jul 9, 2018

  1. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    Hi.

    Been stalking these forums for quite some time as ive had different golf mk4's since i got my licence eight years ago. The latest being a golf 4 25th anniversary. Long story short i wanted awd again as it was something i missed from my mk4 tdi.

    So when a S3 i had been following here in norway was posted for sale my first audi was indeed a fact.

    The car is a 99 model APY prefacelift

    Quick list of whats done to it (gonna fill this out later when i find the mods list)
    - Tuscan I-beam rods
    - Wiseco 9,25 pistons, stock bore
    - Large port head, but still stock small port inlet (how much of an issue is this?)
    - Frankenturbo f23 with chinafold
    - Badger5 TIP
    - Wagner FMIC
    - Movit big brake kit with 330 discs and porsche 993 Turbo calipers
    - powerflex black bushings in the entire front end, except for some solid subframe bushings
    - Integrated Engineering catch can
    - Forge silicone hoses for water and turbo outlet
    - inline fuel pressure gauge (want to change this to a sensor i can wire in to Ignitron)
    - Deatschwerks DW65 fuel pump
    - Zinram 3 inch turboback (also have a spare milltek 2,75 inch catback, for MOTs etc)
    - TFSI coils

    The car has a few issues
    - the filler plug on the transmission has a crack, it works and is driveable, but i guess its a matter of time before i need to do something about this. I already have a 02M transmission from my old TDI so will probably swap it in.
    - No AC (havent looked into what's wrong yet)
    - And the biggest issue of them all, there are no cupholders!

    2018-07-15 18.51.37.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2018
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  3. Warsuperior

    Warsuperior Active Member

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  4. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    from what ive read the gear ratios arent to bad, but there are a lot of different ratios on the diesels, so will check the code on it next time im in that part of the country (it sits in a garage 8 hours away).

    Worst case i open it and transfer over the gears from the s3 and just use the housing :)
     
  5. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    So, had the car for a little while now, not had time to do anything before this weekend.

    Finally had some time and started on the wiring.

    Started by removing the ecu plug so i could add the extra pins.

    2018-07-15 14.10.53.jpg

    I bought patch wires from the local dealer so i removed the pin from the correct pin number and added the precrimped patchwire.
    Then i soldered on the rest of the wire. In this case i actually stole the two wires needed from the evap canister since this was being removed and i wanted to remove the wires they were perfect to reuse for this, meaning i had good terminals with the correct rubbergrommet in that end as well.

    2018-07-15 18.51.55.jpg

    Sadly i forgot to take pictures of the job completed, but the local dealer had give me the male instead of female end of the wideband plug so im picking that up today to finish the job. Gonna take a few more pictures of the completed job then.

    It also looks like the cover for the ecu tray hasnt been properly attached so i have this chalky residue all over the area below the windscreen, so i gotta figure out how to remove that.

    I've also reported my first post to get it updated with a more complete mods list.

    And lastly, a picture of the car sitting all pretty in the garage im renting :)

    2018-07-15 18.51.37.jpg
     
  6. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    So had a trip to the garage!

    Wideband sensor wired and connected (picture tommorow, home computer doesnt like flash)

    Tried firing it up, nothing happened. Checked that lambda etc worked, it did. After a lot of cranking it suddenly started the second i stopped cranking, fancy, so the car runs, not good of course with only a base map. But it's a huge milestone for me, first time physiscally altering ecu harnesses :)

    Tried to figure out the startup map, but after a several hours, no bueno...
    But i think i have a couple of things to check out.

    1. The fuel pressure gauge under the hood is dead steady at 2,5 bars, so i guess all the fueling is off at the moment. The golf has a 4bar so i dont have a spare 3bar to test with, so guess i gotta buy one.
    2. Dead time, the current values is about a millisecond off what the 550cc bosch injectors are specced as (550cc has longer dead time) so this again can affect fueling.

    So the plan is to fix those two issues and if someone has a startup/crank map they use with their ignitron it would be fun to see how yours look compared to mine. I guess they shouldnt be that different seeing as theres not much boost etc to considering during cranking.

    Also the N75 wiring seems to be bad. I get P0243 and P0245 thrown from the ECU, so gotta look into that.

    Sorry for no pictures, but my computer wont let me so i'll fix that at work tommorow.
     
  7. Warsuperior

    Warsuperior Active Member

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    You ran 550c injectors with base map on me7.5? what ecu are you using?
    You could borewash your engine with those injectors with oem map since they put in way lot more than original ones.

    I got myself 630cc injectors but I bought a tune for this size injectors. I did wideband conversion too and I am using golf 032H ecu
     
  8. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    As i wrote in the first post i'm using an ignitron ECU. So the basemap is configured for 550cc injectors.

    Had it been a me7.5 ECU it would already be up and running, been mapping my old golf for quite some time :)
     
  9. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    Had some more time to work on the car last night.

    Tried figuring out why it wouldn't start, got some amazing support from the guys behind Ignitron, i must say the support they've given is top notch.
    After a while they started suspecting that i didnt have the standard cam trigger wheel for an APY.

    A bit embarrased i didn't think of that myself seeing as it has an AJL big port head, i figured they would've swapped over cam trigger etc from the APY head, but it makes total sense for why it has trouble starting. Didn't have time to pull off the cam trigger sensor to verify last night as it was gettin pretty late, but im going out to the workshop again today so i can verify and change it in the ecu.

    The N75 was as simple as a blown fuse...
    The car was running with a manual boost controller when i bought it so i guess no one had bothered with the fault codes the car had thrown (the n75 was connected, but looped).

    Tried taking a couple of pictures, still a mobile camera and bad lighting.

    2018-07-18 23.54.01.jpg

    2018-07-18 23.54.16.jpg

    2018-07-18 23.54.28.jpg

    My office for the next few weekends :)

    2018-07-18 23.54.39.jpg
     
  10. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Looks familiar... lol

    <tuffty/>
     
  11. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    Hehe, spent many weekends with a similar view in the GTI logging ME7.5

    A quick update on the support from Ignitron again, i have a 13" laptop with a odd low resolution aspect ratio, so some windows were to big for the screen and not possible to scroll in to see the missing info.
    Reported this last night and was expecting a answer in the likes of this being outdated hardware and a suggestion of using a different laptop. Which i would totally understand. But no! They just released a new version of the software that supports my resolution!
     
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  13. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    I had the same issue with my netbook screen res... (1366x768) and reported it to him back when I first started using my IECU... Brian told me about the new release a little while back

    Works great now on my piddly little screen :)

    <tuffty/>
     
  14. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    That's actually the same resolution as i have on my 13 inch laptop. Maybe he already had the new .exe file ready for me then :)

    So, trigger changed, fired right up, been driving around a bit learning the software and started doing some adjustments to the VE table.

    Even dared going into boost, either the n75 is broken or i routed the hoses wrong, didnt get past 0,5 bar, which i assume is the wastegate opening pressure.

    Car ran 1,2 bar before i swapped ecu so not to worried about it being something wrong with the turbo :)

    My innovate AFR gauge also suddenly stopped working after the car stood idling for 30 minutes while talking to a buddy, it's now stuck at 22,4 (max reading). Read about the gauge and its apparantly a common issue. Not sure what i'll do about it, the gauge is nice to have, but looks like there is a lot of hassle with the innovates...
     
  15. Warsuperior

    Warsuperior Active Member

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  16. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    Vital information i forgot to add.
    I am already running a phenolic from big port to small port. But all that does is smooth out the transition, it's still a smaller tract going into a larger chamber.
     
  17. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    Pictureless update.

    Been fiddling with more with the ECU and the map is starting to be pretty decent, boost onset is a little late because of my conservative PID control of the boost, but this is gettin sorted when i get to do some tuning again.

    I'm at 1,6bar from 4000-5500 then tapering off to 1,3 to redline.
    My problem is that i have no clue if this is conservative or aggresive in regards of what a ko4 hybrid/frankenturbo f23 can manage.
    Tried googling f23 builds etc, but it seems like all the american hypetrain boys are running OEM management and therefor reporting a maximum of 1,5bar, which helps me nothing.

    I guess i'll try to up the boost a little and see what happens, i had 1,9bar to 6500 (lifted off early when i saw my boost gauge) after a little accident in my tuning. Had zero knock and lambda was good and i could feel the difference compared to how it is now. But yeah, gotta figure out where this turbo is reliable too...

    I'm also looking for new wheels since i really dislike driving on 9,5 rims with 225/40 tires, it feels a lot more unstable than my 8inch wide 225/40 setup from my golf + i kinda like the meaty motorsport look compared to the stretched look :)
     
  18. baliszoft

    baliszoft New Member

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    I do not know the F23 either, but i would go up to around 1.7 (max 1.8bar) as soon as possible (@ ~3300-3500RPM) and then taper off the boost to ~1.5bar @ 6k. The attached picture is a K04hybrid (TFSI k04-064 based internals). This particular car does not really take advance for some reason (has 9.25:1 CR pistons), so advance timing figures are lowish, EGTs are high, i think more boost up above would hurt performance.
     

    Attached Files:

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  19. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    K04's tend to prefer progression... too much boost too soon makes everything hot and you lose top end performance...

    <tuffty/>
     
  20. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    Hmm.

    Do you have a suggestion of a boost curve i should try to aim for?
     
  21. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    What have you got now?

    Had a look about for one and found this as a comparison on my build thread

    [​IMG]

    This is a comparison of my car before cams (GT35), std S3/K04 and a hybrid K04 on a customers car at Bills... not sure which hybrid as they has been a few on the market but you get the idea

    <tuffty/>
     
  22. baliszoft

    baliszoft New Member

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    @Tuffty

    I agree that holding back a K03/K04 frame hybrid turbo will result in higher peak HP (due to less heat(soak) as you mention), but most of the hybrid customers over here (or at least whom i met with) want a fast, quick spooling setup with loads of TQ low down (otherwise they would have chosen a proper big turbo).

    I usually offer hybrid users a multi map setup: a flat ~1.5bar one with less heatsoak and possibly higher peak HP and a high TQ one (up to max ~1.8bar tapering to ~1.5), but with possible less peak HP. ...guess what, at the end they all use the high TQ one :). I let the users to decide, as it is just a click to switch between the turbo presets (on the fly).

    The attachment is the dyno graph of that hybrid K04 car on the log in my previous post. That has lower HP, but higher TQ (compared to the hybrid on your graphs) possibly due to heatsoak, but we cannot really compare the two dyno graphs as the turbos are possibly different (too).

    EDIT: the 256PS one is with the stock K04, stock dual smic, ...
     

    Attached Files:

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  23. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    This was yesterday.
    As you can see i hit peak boost of 262kPa around 3940 in third gear.
    In second i usually dont see peak boost before 4200+

    Isnt this pretty late or am expecting to much from it?
    Tried upping the duty cycle of the wastegate from 2000-4000 today, only got to test in second gear, but didnt see much difference in spool.

    upload_2018-7-27_0-11-1.png
     
  24. baliszoft

    baliszoft New Member

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    Do a log in 4th gear 2500-6500, 2nd is too quick, but i am not familiar with the F23, i have no idea where it supposed to hit peak boost.
     
  25. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    4th gear and that rev range is quite high above the speed limits here and i live in the center of the capital, so not every day i can get to a stretch of road that its possible to do that kind of testing :racer:

    Going away for the weekend, but i'll see what i can do next week. I want to get my EGT sensor installed before i do to much more testing since i suspect its gettin a bit hot. Anyone have a wiring diagram over the OEM EGT sensor? I assume its ground, 12v and a signal to a pin at the ecu?

    And i guess the fact that i run big port might affect my spool too? (no VVT either)
     
  26. baliszoft

    baliszoft New Member

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    Here is the wiring for the OEM EGT amplifier. It gives out a pulse wave signal which has to be connected to ECU 61. On the narrowband loom there already should be a wire at pin 61 which is for the AC refrigerant pressure (it is a similar pulse wave), simply disconnect it and wire in the EGT amplifier instead. As for sensor calibration, generate a base file for BAM or AMK engine code and copy the settings to your file regarding to the EGT sensor.
     

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  27. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    Took a day of work to get some work done on the Golf im selling, selling it in parts, but someone bought the shell so had to take of a bunch of the performance parts im keeping for the black sheep (trying out names for it)

    Bought some new screws for the door wingiethings at the bottom, since the body shop it was at before i bought it crapped out on that job, so now they are sitting thight again. Im drooling over some carbon ones that probably will be ordered during the winter :)


    Also found some time to install wheel studs on the black sheep along with the wheels from my gti anniversary. As seen on the previous pictures it had some pretty stancy rota grids in 9,5 inch width with 225/40 tires. I like the wheels, but i found out they are ET23 and they need a 10mm spacer up front so they poke way to much + i dont like how a car drives with stretched tires so if i were to keep them they would need a 245 or 255 tire. Which is impossible to fit up front.

    The "new" wheels are oem golf R32 wheels with a 10mm spacer up front (1-2mm clearance to the caliper now) and a 20mm spacer in the back. I still think they sit a bit deep in the wheel wells, but they are just temporary wheels untill i find something i actually want on the s3.

    It also started raining on my way home, which was interesting without a cowl and wipers, havent installed it since i anticipate more wiring of the ECU and its zero rain forecasted for the next two weeks....

    Gonna fix some 3M vinyl wrap to waterproof the connector side of the ECU and install the wipers i guess. Broken to many golf water tray/cowl covers so not risking an install before its completely wired!

    Edit: Forgot to mention that i now run 1,7bar tapering off to 1,5bar, its starting to get fun to drive, but im shortshifting it a lot because of EGT insecurities, EGT probe hopefully installed soon!

    2018-07-31 17.50.24.jpg


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    2018-07-31 17.50.38-1.jpg


    2018-07-31 17.50.43 HDR.jpg


    2018-07-31 17.50.46-1.jpg
     
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  28. baliszoft

    baliszoft New Member

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    That black wrap which is enclosed with the ECU is for protecting the connectors. One time usable though.
     
  29. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    It's already in use, but im not satisfied with my own install of it, so redoing it :)
     
  30. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    Was at the garage to move the vibratechnics mounts from my gti over to the s3.

    Noticed a LOT of oil from the gearbox, i guess one of my high speed cruises were to much for the fracture in the gearbox.
    So car is now parked outside the garage and waiting for the GTI to be picked up in a week or two so i can start dissasembly of the S3.
     
  31. baliszoft

    baliszoft New Member

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    Any updates?
     
  32. Cookiez

    Cookiez New Member

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    Unfortunately not.

    GTI is sold and S3 parked in the garage, cant drive it more before a new gearbox, will pick up my diesel gearbox in a couple of weeks, then the job of making two gearboxes become one awesome gearbox start :)

    Probably doing shift forks etc while its first out. So knowing my tempo and how much there is to do at work at the moment the car will probably off the road for several months. Will try to make some interesting updates on the progress tho!
     
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