Bittersweet, help please?! Tiptronic gearbox

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Tank.

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So ive finally got myself an audi a6 avant s line 3.0 tdi, in aero blue. 05 plate with 55k on the clock. Picked it up yesterday and left edinburgh for Buxton this morning.

gearbox is acting strange, it doesn't always do it so not sure its mechanical?

when I'm cruising in 6th gear and accelerate the gearbox drops to 5th with a big clunk. It doesn't always do it but when it does its bad. Same downshifting with the paddle. Sometimes its smooth as silk sometimes it clunks.
And similar when slowing down coming down through the gears it clunks and lurches when going to park.

please someone tell me its as simple as software

also so noticed when on cruise control it sometimes wouldnt maintain speed, speeding up and slowing down. Hopefully related to the other issue.

The car is under extended warranty but only to the cost of £2k

can someone shed some light?
 
In short, banging coming down the gears
 
How you describe it doesn't fit the bill for the software update, even though yours is an early car.

View PDF's under transmission here Link:- Audi A6 TSB List

With VCDS scan:-

i) you can get DTC (error codes) which you could google to see what they mean
ii) view measuring blocks to see what is going on Link:- Audi Portal: ECU Diagnostic . Audi A6 4F (2005- ) . Transmission Control Unit J217
iii) see what software version is of TCM

What you describe is what Bristol Transmissions described to me as a faulty gearbox requiring real work, when I was asking if mine needed a service he described symptoms which would mean real work need doing and as I'd only had my gearbox oil changed as part of another job 2yrs ago he said it was my choice if I wanted an oil change.

Sorry for not sounding positive, I hope I am wrong.
 
Well i only purchased the car yesterday so if they dont want to fix it I'll be dumping it on their forecourt and demanding my money back!

Narrowed it down to 5th and 3rd on the downshift and really clunky going through the modes up to park.

So furious if this is a physical problem, my 2k warranty probably wouldnt cover it. But have a friend in trading standards should manage to keep me right in terms of what I'm entitled to
 
Not wishing to scare you, I bought a 2005 A6 3.0 V6 TDi and I'm not saying they are going to get faults highlighted in here, link:- Audi A6 4F C6 V6 2.7 3.0 TDi Buyers Checklist ....

But the early cars IMO are not built as well as the later ones. There are several control modules which software wise are updated in newer ones, several parts which are improved.

Most of these car's have been kept on long life servicing which mean they perhaps never went yearly to a garage and whilst under warranty missed out on updates plus some updates only came around later once warranty period up.

It really is a ball ache try to get some main dealers to do software updates, especially on our older cars. If I had my chance again I'd get a 2007/08 model.

Rather than go down avenue of you/them repair I'd get £ back and if it meant saving some more for newer one I'd do that.
 
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Not sure where i stand on returning the vehicle tbh

My friend at trading standards says theres not much i can do about returning it if they dont want want to play ball. He said theres no such thing as a "cooling off period" so not sure what I'm to do
 
Sorry to hear about the gearbox troubles, a recon box from Audi is over £4.5K, so it would have to be repaired by a specialist. I think your starting point is to talk to the company you purchased the car off and go from there. Also talk to some of the specialists gearbox repair companies there are plenty out there.
 
Tank. said:
Not sure where i stand on returning the vehicle tbh

My friend at trading standards says theres not much i can do about returning it if they dont want want to play ball. He said theres no such thing as a "cooling off period" so not sure what I'm to do
Click to expand...

Was car bought from a dealer? how long have you had it now?

Goods sold by company have to be "fit for purpose" in the instance that they arent the seller has the option to repair, replace or refund.
As far as returning goes id be very surprise if any car salesman/forecourt took it back straight away, they are well within their rights to repair or replace and would certainly do this first, as unsuprsingly they want to keep your money.

Pretty sure you cant just demand your money back straight away, you have to give the seller a "reasonable time" period to repair or replace. The "reasonable time" is open to interpretation based on intended used and value.

Might be worth getting someone from Audi main dealer to verifiy the issue your having, it will give allot more clout when comes to repairs. As far as your extended warranty i wouldnt of thought this would need to be used just yet, if its a genuine problem it should still be taken care of under sale of goods act.
 
Bought the car 2 days ago from a small private dealership which is possibly why I'm a little miffed,

Out of all the possible problems the gearbox was the one thing that scared me the most and is the first thing to go wrong.

Ive emailed the dealer regarding return of the vehicle but obviously thatll be a waste of time after your comment above.
 
Last time I spoke to Bristol transmissions how much a over haul costs if my gearbox went south i I think it was £2k remove/reworked/refitted. Perhaps if you enquire with they they may say ahh know exactly what is as they deal in just transmissions.

I'll sift through some ZF tech docs and get my google goggles on to see if can dig up more info.

In the VCDS section of forum is map of members with VCDS, perhaps someone close to you will scan it. I have screen video of my cars MVBs on YouTube I did when some one wanted to compare their gearbox issue with my car.
 
Tank. said:
Bought the car 2 days ago from a small private dealership which is possibly why I'm a little miffed,

Out of all the possible problems the gearbox was the one thing that scared me the most and is the first thing to go wrong.

Ive emailed the dealer regarding return of the vehicle but obviously thatll be a waste of time after your comment above.
Click to expand...
If the person you bought it from is trading as a dealer then you are covered by sale of goods act and any fault found in the first six months, unless it is clearly evident that you did something to cause it, is deemed to ave been present at the time of purchase and is the responsibility of the dealer to fix regardless of any restrictions on the warranty. I am surprised you friend at Trading Standards was so negative

Used motor vehicles - consumer rights - Trading Standards Institute See first sentence of third paragraph

This maya lso help you Returning a car - Buying advice - Auto Trader UK - Auto Trader UK - buying
 
So according to that 3rd paragraph i am entitled to return the vehicle and request a refund?
 
That's what is says......don't delay though and don't continue to use the car. Confirm everything you say in writing and keep copies.

if they don't co-operate get trading standards involved or legal advice, but forget your mate.
 
Hmm well I'm currently in Buxton, guess phoning the AA for a relay home is the only option
 
Sale of goods act document can be found here.
Sale of Goods Act 1979
Section 48 is the one that concerns repair, replace refund arguement.
In particular 48A, 48B and 48C, whilst the emphasis is on that the buyer gets to choose the rememdy some protection of the seller is implied, and given the "vagueness" the seller will argue that they have to be allowed to rememedy the solution.

In summary 48A highlights what can be done if item isnt fit for purpose, 48A gives you tow options.
48B (repair/replacement) or
48C partial refund or refund

It seems like you have the right to choose which is done, although you must let them refund (-the cost of use you have had) if the repair or replacement isnt economical or possible.

In reality it will all come down to how Stubborn the seller is, if they argue they have a right to repair or replace then they must do so within a reasonable time.
If your car is used for daily commute, you have no other vehicles, no public transport and were self employed they would struggle to justify there right to repair without giving you a courtesey car.

That said if they were to offer to fix in under a week and would give you a car in the meantime but you still wanted your money back you would have a harder time in court, and would have to seriously consider the toll it will take on your sanity.
 
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Well after having the car scanned at a local garage and the gaffer taking it out for a spin he's diagnosed the problem as suspected perished engine gearbox mount.

When opening the bonnet and selecting gears the whole engine was shaking about, there was also sign of a small oil leak around where one of the mounts is i think.

Anyway after contacting the trader who sold me the car, the resolve is that he will take the car back in next week and will send it off to get looked at. He also said they use a transmission specialist in glasgow so they'd send it to him.

In the meantime ive been told by the mechanic the vehicle will be ok to drive it home as long as I'm not changing gears excessively
 
If you decide to allow them to fix the car you need to agree some time limit or else it could become a protracted and in some cases quite bitter dispute. Consider what happens if after changing one part it turns out not to be the fix and so it needs more serious work (gearbox repairs for example) and downtime.
The issue over continuing to use the car is not to protect the car but rather it lessens your chances of a no nonsense refund once you have had use of the car for more than a very short period. You would probably then only qualify for a partial refund.
 
Arranged AA recovery, roadside mechanic was happy to sign off on recovery, so long day for me and the family tomorrow
 
So we arrived safely from our holiday today, car deposited back at the dealership on the back of an AA truck.

When conversing with the salesperson (not the boss) I stated i wanted the main issue fixed and any secondary problem which may have been caused by the main issue sorted, i also stated i wanted it sorted within 2 weeks which i feel is a reasonable period.

I then put what we discussed into an email to document what had been agreed on, to which i received a phone call from the sales person saying he had a conversation with the boss and that 2 weeks during "holiday period" is an unreasonable request.
 
Tank. said:
So we arrived safely from our holiday today, car deposited back at the dealership on the back of an AA truck.

When conversing with the salesperson (not the boss) I stated i wanted the main issue fixed and any secondary problem which may have been caused by the main issue sorted, i also stated i wanted it sorted within 2 weeks which i feel is a reasonable period.

I then put what we discussed into an email to document what had been agreed on, to which i received a phone call from the sales person saying he had a conversation with the boss and that 2 weeks during "holiday period" is an unreasonable request.
Click to expand...
2 weeks without a car you have paid for and no alternative transport is even more unreasonable.

Ask him when it will be repaired. If he is unwilling to repair it within a reasonable timeframe then suggest he arranges it to be taken to an Audi dealer and repaired there at his cost. Definitely push for a loan car whilst yours is off the road. Would also suggest you start looking for another car so that if you do reject it you are able to get a replacement car quickly
 
Yeah "holiday period" seems a weak excuse.
My mum had a similar issue with a head of services calling her "heartless" given his daughter had been ill, to which her reply was "Well lets hope she doesnt need addmitted to hospital as im a nurse and wont be getting to work"

Bottom line is his problems with staffing arent and shouldnt be your problems.

Looking at this situation as a whole, "discovering problem day after taking delivery" isnt great, taking weeks to fix without courtesy car so soon after again stinks of poor service and is unreasonable.

I dont know your personal circumstances, but being self employed myself if someone tried to tell me id be without car and subsequent income for two weeks it would not be acceptable.
At very least you need courtesy car.
 
So........ another update for those interested/concerned.


After speaking to Mackie Transmission specialists today repair has been authorised for a new (recon) gearbox and replacement "radiator" (ATF cooler im guessing?)

The dealership are claiming against the scotsure warranty and paying the excess above what the warranty covers which is £2k, apparently the total quote is something like £3.8k

Fairly happy with that, 3 year parts and labour warranty on the new box so shouldnt have any problems for a while, as long as they update the software too, or maybe thats not an area of theirs.

Not much of a mechanic but I'm guessing the rad has been leaking fluid and lack of fluid has caused the fault?

Anyway things look pretty positive, should get the car back toward the end of next week.
My only other concern is what other potential damage could be caused by the forces of these hard changes going through the car i.e mounts, rear diff even the flywheel?

Not too fussed about pursuing a courtesy/hire car since ive still got my previous vehicle. plus its one less thing they can hold over me should there be any problem.
 
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thanks for the update...that seems a positive response and shows good intention rather than attempting to fob you off with a cheap repair. good luck.
 
im curious to know what has caused the problem in the first place, but the garage seem too busy to talk, and i dont really want to pester them with questions when they could be getting on with repairing the car
 
So picked the car up today, took it for a spin and all seemed well

Noticed gears are smooth when pushing on, but when cruising theres still a wee jolt into 4th depending on engine speed. Not sure whether this is an issue or just running in
 
I've not got any jolts when moving up and down the box. I would tell the company that fitted the box and let them check it out. Also get some pictures.
 
Cant help but think im cursed with this car,
Its actually run me into the ground its knocked my health too.
 
I get some "noticeable" engine breaking when I use the paddles to shift down the gears. Nothing I would describe as a jolt.
Did they change the suspect mount you mentioned earlier?
 
No, reciept is just for reconditioning of the box and fitting of a new oil cooler.
Did mention the engine mounts but guy had no interest in what i had to say. My concern is that the car is at a transmission specialist, if this problem is something else then their warranty wont cover it.

Less pronounced but theres a little jolt when selecting gear once the box is up to temp too.

Might just see what the cost is for audi to do a software update as if all mechanical things are fine it must be a software thing, id hope
 
Could anyone tell me can i access gearbox ECU through the normal obd with vagcom?

I have a friend with vagcom so i can check what the software version is,
Also could anyone tell me what the correct/ up to date software version is?
 
There are different software versions depending on what gearbox code you have. Looking at etka there are 7 different software versions but VCDS will be able to tell you what software and hardware is fitted. The recon gearbox may now be different than what is listed on your options code.
 
Hmm I'll just leave it to the transmission place, gearbox will be up to temp by the time i get through there anyway so will easily be able to display the problem

just hope they have facilities to deal with software as well as hardware
 
After a little more searching, it seems likely my problem may be related to a faulty solenoid,

knowing someone local i'll get it scanned in the next couple days and see if the gearbox comes up with any problems,

fed up with having to fault find myself, this issue should be sorted. Yet no doubt when i return my findings to the transmission folk i'll get fcuked off.
 
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