Bit of help regarding head gasket also a bit of history (A4 2.0TDI)

al_p

Registered User
Hey just bought an A4 2.0TDI from a friend there is a bit of history about this car that i will tell you about first , my friend bought the car broke with 2 engines , the engine that was in the car was the 2nd engine with a head gasket failure , the first engine that was originally in the car was badly damaged due to the gear system on the oil pump disintegrating (pic at bottom) and the car been drove 150 miles with generally no oil going to the engine so the cylinder head was in pretty bad condition although the bottom end seems ok although its not going to be re used .
The engine with this head gasket problem has another story when we got the car we split the head and got it skimmed and tested for cracks and pressure checked , once this was done we installed the new head gasket and drove it , it lasted 3 days before it blew its head gasket again so the other day we stripped again and decided to remove the whole engine , what we discovered is that the block has the small type oil pump non balancer type? (brand new) as we started to strip the block we noticed everything was brand new .. bearings/oil pump/seals etc.. only thing i noticed was the face of the block seems to have a rough look to it so we are sending the head off to get checked again and also sending the block to be checked and skimmed.

my findings and questions are .. on the 2 engines there where differences in the head gasket. on the 2nd engine the head gasket we used was ~1.71 yet on the original 1st engine with the oil pump failure the head gasket seems to be stiffer and also thicker but i dont know what make this is so we have decided to use a genuine audi gasket.

my 2nd question is would anyone have any ideas what could cause the gasket to blow so quick if it is not the block that is causing the problem ?

little bit more information . the gasket blew on cylinders 1,3,4 . 1. was the water jacket on the front facing the cam belt 2. had started to go slightly on the water jacket on the exhaust side . 4 had completely blew the water jacket on the rear the most which even caused the crystallization on the cylinder from the anti freeze.

sorry for the essay and my bad punctuation but any help would be much appreciated

thanks in advance -alastair-
 

al_p

Registered User
beleive it or not the actual pump is working fine just this died a terrible death
62ECAA85-07B3-4FCE-AFE7-62311E941828.png


this is my car (grill off as we where painting it )
66FF9B78-3EC4-4A35-A43C-46D4B5C42710.png
 

al_p

Registered User
bit of an update , it turned out that the block had also warped hence the headgasket failing so quick so its now in the enginners getting skimmed and hopefully will be alll built up by saturday :)

quick question .. has this forum died ? as there don't seem to be much activity
 

stevegrass777

Registered User
The gasket standard should be 2 holes and if skimmed 3 holes as this is thicker to allow for skimming,it depends how far you pistons come out of the top of the block,
The oil pump has had the balance shaft delete done and has the old alh pump on which should be a positive as this setup should last.As your picture shows even the gear setup just vibrates to death and self destructs.
Get a good water pump, maybe the kolbenshmidt one from vwspares don't use the Audi/vw recon one it has a plastic impeller and fails sometimes.
Use victor rienz or erling head gaskets the vw ones I have seen are etched with vr so I presume are victor rienz.
The Audi b7 part of the forum is very busy but looks dead here.lol
 

al_p

Registered User
hey thanks for that , the victor rienz is the one we where recommended to use by the engineers so that's the one we got , think the last one was bga or something , as for oil pump yes the old style is on :) . as for engine no.2 can we convert from gear to old style chain type ? or do we need another crankshaft ?

as for water pump ill look into that as i know its been changed but not looked into what type , i am sure this car is a car club owners as its got some decent mods done like .. SMF / old style oil pump / it used to have leon splitter judging by the holes on the underside of the bumper , it had the wheels painted black with white face (looked bit crap so repainted same colour as car but with more pearls)also had remap to 220bhp and straight thru exhaust with dpf removal be good to know if it was a owners on here or another club as we got it from a garage as spare / repair

log book said prev owner was from slough
 

stevegrass777

Registered User
Yes you can convert it to the old style oil pump,but if it has a gear on the crank to run the balance shaft pump this needs a special puller to get it off the crank its about £46.from vw or Audi.
Then you need the crank shaft sprocket that has to be heated up then knocked on,here are some part numbers.
Bora Parts Inc.
I have done a bkp engine but not the Blb Audi one and I believe you need to modify the pick up pipe a little,but as you already have this kit knocking about you may only need the sprocket and swap the rest.
You need to drill and tap and bung the oil feed to the old balance shaft which you can copy the position from your other engine to ensure you get the correct hole.
Also I suggest you fit a oil pressure gauge to ensure you are getting the correct oil pressure afterwards.
 

al_p

Registered User
hey thanks for the info steve :), we installed the engine over the weekend .. started on friday and did a test start only to find that the new turbo was knakkard (ill get back to that in a minute on the reason why) anyway a nice trip down to northampton on saturday morning from liverpool and back with the new turbo and all was good to go . so we put the coolant in after a 1 minute oil only run to find that the water seal at the back of the head going to the plastic outlet had not seated properly ... 30 mins and alot of fiddling later we get it running woohooo BUT waiit whats that flashing diesel light doing that for .. "bolloks" out comes the diagnostics and we find that we must have caught the egt sensor when re installing the turbo so we go and fix that and all is good , engine is now running fine :)

* reason the new turbo failed was because we found the car had been drove from slough to the north west with no running oil pump with the old engine (see broke oil pump pics above) so this meant that the turbo had no oil feed so the seal blew . i must admit i was quite amazed the engine held up as the crank bearings where copper couloured as they had worn thru the 1st layer of metal.



anyway here is whats been done

skimmed block
new chain type oil pump
new bottom end bearings
skimmed head
new turbo
new rubber engine mounts (my fault i blew an oil one by lowering engine while not seated correcly reason for this was tiredness and jack daniels)
gutted dpf
new expansion tank as we think the reason of the earlier head gasket failure was the old tank did not let the cap seat correcly .. also noticed the new tank has been slightly re designed.

now to fix the inner cv joint causing the shake and fit the oe hidaway towbar :)

just a quick note .. i was talking to the guy who does the tubro's and he was telling me that its common for these turbos to fail due to blocked dpf's and that the sensor does not always pick up the blockage , also that upping the power with the dpf still in place puts massive strain on the turbo .. he loves it as it keeps him in business lol
 

stevegrass777

Registered User
"i must admit i was quite amazed the engine held up as the crank bearings where copper couloured as they had worn thru the 1st layer of metal."
Well as long as that's all it did its OK to go down to the copper but with today's quality oils is only seen if supply of oil has stopped.
The oil pressure switch will only allert the ecu and the driver if 0.2 bar isn't achieved, 3 bar is needed at 2000rpm but if the oil pump can supply 0.2 bar then the ecu is none the wiser and the same for the driver,with this system only when catastrophic oil pump failure occurs will the switch work,intermittent failure and progressive failure won't be picked up,even if the pump can't pump more than 1bar you will never know.
Remote Oil Pressure Gauge "T" Piece M10x1.0 VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda Etc (095/5) | eBay
And gauge with warning.
52mm Blue Stepper Motor Warning Oil Pressure Press Gauge BAR With Warning Light | eBay
 

stevegrass777

Registered User
Glad you got it going,it takes a bit of time and patients to get these things right.
BGA gaskets. Word of warning
I think I was told by a vw diesel engine reconditioner that bga weren't very good,Erling,VR,and goetze should be OK. I use erling and vr.
Kolbenshmidt make very good quality stuff like big end bearings,mains,and other engine parts and water pumps.
 

al_p

Registered User
"i must admit i was quite amazed the engine held up as the crank bearings where copper couloured as they had worn thru the 1st layer of metal."
Well as long as that's all it did its OK to go down to the copper but with today's quality oils is only seen if supply of oil has stopped.
The oil pressure switch will only allert the ecu and the driver if 0.2 bar isn't achieved, 3 bar is needed at 2000rpm but if the oil pump can supply 0.2 bar then the ecu is none the wiser and the same for the driver,with this system only when catastrophic oil pump failure occurs will the switch work,intermittent failure and progressive failure won't be picked up,even if the pump can't pump more than 1bar you will never know.
Remote Oil Pressure Gauge "T" Piece M10x1.0 VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda Etc (095/5) | eBay
And gauge with warning.
52mm Blue Stepper Motor Warning Oil Pressure Press Gauge BAR With Warning Light | eBay

could i buy a 2 bar oil pressure switch instead ?
 

stevegrass777

Registered User
Apparently they used to put two pressure switches on one for higher revs and one for tick over.The trouble is tick over has quiet a low oil pressure of about 1.1 bar hot,so that would activate the switch on tick over I don't know if a second pressure switch could be used in conjunction with some kind of rev counter so it only worked above 2000rpm.
 

stevegrass777

Registered User
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yu17c6gga974veh/2014-03-28 14.48.51.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7igbfp2ibzsdflf/2014-03-28 14.48.37.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jo2i55pz3lo2t75/2014-03-28 14.49.29.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pm16a8y3c8r3rjv/2014-03-28 14.49.18.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wmbtmuoonscpkyx/2014-04-04 07.49.52.jpg
Depending how thin your oil is,5w30 hot is about 1.1 bar on tick over so would switch the light off,but with a gauge you still have the Audi switch in place its just moved a little,so you keep the standard Audi sender and wiring.
The original sender is at the bottom of the oil filter housing, I took that out and replaced with the remote adapter,the routed the oil pipe to somewhere safe and fit both senders,put the original wire back on the Audi sender then route the new wire back through the ecu box and into the drivers foot well then you just need a ignition live that you can use a piggy back fuse holder in the fuse box.
Then if the oil pump messes about you can see it as the gauge will be up an down.
 
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