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Bilstein B12 Kit Experience

jrumball Apr 29, 2019

  1. jrumball

    jrumball Well-Known Member Sportback Audi A3 etron Cosmos Blue

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    I have an e-tron which in the UK is fitted with "Dynamic" suspension from the factory and there were no other options from the factory . It is soft and wallowy and did not match the performance of the car ....

    I looked at various options including retrofitting mag ride but this appeared to be a complicated scenario.

    I have fitted B12 kits to my previous cars and liked what they did to the ride height and handling . The kit consists of a set of Eibach Prokit springs and Bilstein B8 shocks.

    I initially just had the Eibach Prokit springs and new top mounts fitted as Eibach said they will work with the factory shocks. This may of been the case for brand new shocks (mine were at 30k miles) and nice German roads. It was not the case for my shocks and UK roads... They made the car handle much better (it cornered flatter and was much more planted), but the ride was embarrassingly bouncy ! The shocks could not control the springs....

    You may have more luck with the Sport S-line or S3 stock suspension as I guess the is firmer from the factory

    I then ordered a set of Bilstine B8 Shocks. These were fitted and have brought the springs under control. The car now handles as it should of from the factory !

    The car is now at a much nicer ride height, it corners flat and is not crashy. The difference is night and day between The B12 kit and the factory Dynamic Suspension :thumbs up: The car is able to put down its power a lot more effectively .

    Ride Height
    This was never my mission but the car looks a lot better now, with no issues so far with speed bumps etc .

    Stock Dynamic Suspension
    (measured from bottom of rim to wheel arch with standard 18s )
    IMG_5588.jpg

    Front:625mm
    IMG_5671.jpg
    IMG_5585.jpg


    Rear:620mm
    IMG_5674.jpg
    IMG_5583.jpg

    Eibach Prokit Springs and Dynamic Shocks
    IMG_5748.jpg


    Front:595mm
    IMG_5725.jpg
    IMG_5770.jpg

    Rear:598mm
    IMG_5724.jpg
    IMG_5769.jpg




    B12 Kit
    IMG_5907.jpg

    Front: 595mm
    IMG_5902.jpg
    IMG_5908.jpg
    Rear: 590mm
    IMG_5901.jpg
    IMG_5909.jpg

    So overall a drop of 30mm to both the front and back with the B12 kit.


    TotalVAG


    They fitted the springs and then shocks they were brilliant, really knowledgeable and friendly. I highly recommend them .
    IMG_5900.jpg

    REFERENCE

    Eibach Catalogue

    web2.carparts-cat.com/default.aspx?11=279&14=4&1115=1&1281=17=0&10=82739E47A6D147248C9F0355E10B2910279004&12=100

    Bilstein Catalogue


    web1.carparts-cat.com/default.aspx?10=E42BF1B642D34707AD4E80216CE3C91E018001&14=1&12=100

    Part Numbers for reference

    Original A3 e-tron shocks (Dynamic Suspension)

    Front
    5Q0 413 031 GD
    IMG_5813.jpg

    Back
    5Q0 512 011 LC
    IMG_5810.jpg


    Original A3 e-tron Springs (Dynamic suspension)

    Front
    MUW ? 2 orange dots and a white dot.....
    IMG_5913.jpg

    Rear
    5Q0511115
    IMG_5912.jpg

    Eibach Prokit springs for A3 e-tron/ Golf GTE

    E10-15-021-15-22
    IMG_5603.jpg
    IMG_5605.jpg IMG_5607.jpg

    Bilstein B8 shocks for A3 e-tron

    Front
    35-229919
    IMG_5914.jpg

    Back
    24-229937
    IMG_5915.jpg
     
    N.J.H, Deezer-D, AlS3BE and 3 others like this.
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  3. OCDaveS4

    OCDaveS4 Well-Known Member Team Manhattan Silver Supporter Audi S4

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    nice post - very informative, and like the lower stance!
     
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  4. jrumball

    jrumball Well-Known Member Sportback Audi A3 etron Cosmos Blue

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    Not really my main intention wanted to improve the handling it seems Audi didn't set up the A3 e-tron like VW did with the Golf GTE which are identical MQB platform cars and drive trains .... It has properly sorted it out now .

    But I have to admit it does look really nice now :thumbs up:
     
  5. Tuttivini

    Tuttivini Member

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    @jrymball: What a nice looking facelift A3 E-Tron!!!
    I also bought a full options facelift A3 E-Tron a couple of months ago (imported it from Germany to my country, The Netherlands).

    Love everything about the car, except the 'handling'. At work I drive a 2017 A4 S-line and it feels much better (with better I mean more precise, responsive, firmer, etc when steering/driving).

    Besides the handling, the A3 E-Tron definitely needs a lower stance. 'Stock' S-line ride-height on other A3's looks much better (even lower would look good, but as a daily driver, not what I am looking for).

    So I decided to go for the Eibach pro kit and some spacers on front and back.
    Read some good experiences on Dutch forums.
    Your topic is the first, where I read 'but the ride was embarrassingly bouncy ! The shocks could not control the springs.... '
    Little scared now....
    Mine has done 18k miles.
    Is this bouncy feeling 'normal' for stock E-Tron shocks + Eibach Pro Springs?

    Any other E-Tron drivers with the Eibach Pro kit and different experiences?

    Does the Golf GTE use different shocks? Because you are mentioning it has another set up from factory?
     
  6. jrumball

    jrumball Well-Known Member Sportback Audi A3 etron Cosmos Blue

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    Thanks

    Yeah the bounce was horrible the car was about the same milage as yours but you can never know what life it has had. I would really recommend doing the shocks at the same time the springs alone made the car look great but on rural roads and anything but a perfectly flat road which you have a lot of in the Netherlands..... it was horrible .

    Good luck finding other e-tron owners.... There is bit of info on

    http://www.myaudia3etron.com/forum/

    https://www.speakev.com/forums/a3-etron/

    As far as my test drive went with the Golf GTE it felt much more like you would expect a "GTI" car to feel, I didn't want to go cross brand though as I did not know what else could be different, the GTE was also offered with adaptive suspension unlike the A3 e-tron.

    Really recomend doing both it is really worth it !
     
  7. Tuttivini

    Tuttivini Member

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    @jrumball :

    First of all: How's your A3 E-Tron doing? I understood yours has some difficult technical/electronic problems at this moment?
    Hope you/your Audi dealer can fix it asap/without unnecessary costs.

    Meanwhile, I hope you can help me:

    Last month I finally (wanted this for a while) lowered my 2017 facelift A3 E-Tron.
    Opted for the Eibach Pro kit and like the looks/height a lot:

    1.jpg
    2.jpg


    In terms of driving? -> Yesss, what a difference! The car suddenly feels like I can 'attack corners'. Nice and sporty and on 'flat roads' exactly what I wanted to achieve.

    But now, the 'downsides...':

    1) As I said, The E-Tron now drives fantastic on relatively flat roads. Truly a huge improvement. 100 points!
    Only on uneven roads, such as poorly paved streets with potholes, it feels to 'bumpy' or to 'firm' if you hit such a pothole. Hard to describe for me in English (I'm Dutch), but I guess the same experience as how you described it/what you warned me for: 'the shocks can't control the springs'?...

    If I take the same roads / potholes with another Audi I often drive at work (2016 Audi A4 S-line), it will handle those potholes way better (and of course my A3, before lowering, on the ridiculously high ride-height, handled it well)

    Maybe it's wise to go the same route as you did: Buy some matching Bilstein B8 struts to get the comfort back, without losing the sporty feeling....
    (yes... I know... I should have done this all at once, because now I have to pay twice for fitting/wheel alignment)

    So I'm now looking for some B8 struts or a quality complete coilover kit (Bilstein or KW I guess).
    I just can't find decent info about the 'B12' kit. Because in the Bilstein website, they only mention B6, B8, B14, B16. Nothing about a 'collaboration' Bilstein B8+Eibach Pro=B12.
    What shocks are the correct ones for our e-trons, looking at axle loads, etc.?
    Do I need to look for 2x 35-229919 (front) and 2x 24-229937 (rear)?
    Or can I order a 'complete set'?
    What price did you pay?


    2) When steering during a standstill or during very slow driving (parking places, etc.) I hear continuous creaking sound coming from the chassis (front).
    This is since it is lowered. Before is was 100% creak free/silent.
    It is only audible if you drive / steer very slowly.
    The mechanic says he hears this complaint/creaking noise more often, from A3 8v owners (after lowering on original dampers), but mostly you can't do anything about it (!?! ..)

    Next week, the A3 will go there again because he wants to try to lubricate all relevant rwishbone rubbers, to find out if those are causing the creaking sound.

    Do you have experience with this?
     
  8. Tuttivini

    Tuttivini Member

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    And in addition to my questions above (I hope to hear experiences/advice from you guys):

    I noticed that the floor-to-fender heights isn't exactly the same on all sides. For example, the rear right is a little higher (I think around 0.8 centimeter higher) (with a full petrol tank).
    Checked how the Eibach Pro springs are seated and I can see they don't touch the little 'notch' (especially the one one the left).
    Is this wrong?

    links.jpg

    rechts.jpg
     
  9. jrumball

    jrumball Well-Known Member Sportback Audi A3 etron Cosmos Blue

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    Hey the car at the moment is back on the road and working. I think the issue was finally found there was a lot of water under the carpet in the passenger footwell (on a RHD car). I have been told that a bung/plug was missing letting water in. No one is accepting blame or responsibility, the car was repair after a very small accident where the pyro went in the bonnet .... Because of the current situation all of my work has been canceled (I work as a film electrician (lighting) so I have only driven a few hundred miles . I pray that the water was the problem as getting it fixed again in the next 6 months is probably nearly impossible !

    It is a great car but Audi have just been ****, it took them 3 months and leaving me stranded 4 times for them to check the main electrical connection centres of the car!!!!

    So on to your questions

    1. Yes the numbers are correct for our cars. The e-tron is heavier than the other A3. You need to order them separately as there is no "kits" for our cars . I paid ??? I have look all through my paperwork be damed if I know where it is it could be with the accountant in a tax return....

    2. I never noticed this but I did replace the the factory struts within a week as they were so bouncy. At the same time i replaced the top mounts. I used the new bump stops that were supplied too.

    New post question

    I haven't noticed any unevenness sometimes it takes a while for things to settle, wear in the arm maybe ? Doesn't sound right though !

    I am considering shaving the bump stops at the front as on the country roads around me that are terrible the shocks hit the stops very occasionally ...

    I really recommend doing the shocks too makes a massive difference.

    Good Luck Stay Safe
     
  10. Tuttivini

    Tuttivini Member

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    Good to hear your E-Tron is back on the road again!
    Do you know what 'bung/plug' was missing?
    I hope the problem never comes back. Fingers crossed!

    My car is going back to the mechanic next friday, they are going to have a look at the small creaking sound when steering (only when driving slowly or stand still) and the little difference in ride height...
    Hope they can fix it.

    If not, I'm going to have a look at the B8 shocks. If I can buy them, together with new to mounts, for a decent price, I think that's my best option (or a high quality coilover set, but that will be much more expensive I guess).

    Or the bump stops not precisely the correct height for the Eibach springs + B8 shocks?
    (the bump stops that come in the Eibach box)
     
  11. jrumball

    jrumball Well-Known Member Sportback Audi A3 etron Cosmos Blue

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    Thanks the bung appears to be one that would of had the bonnet release going through it if it had been a left had drive car, this combined with some mis fitted trim in the corner of the bonnet caused the problem it seems . It seems to be good at the moment have been trying to drive purely electric very carefully at the moment as I really don't want to have to go and fill the car up with fuel at the moment.

    Can you still take your car to the mechanic !

    The shocks weren't very expensive neither the top mount maybe £200 ???

    I'm sure the bump stops are ok if your roads are good the roads int the uk can be terrible in places
     
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  13. Tuttivini

    Tuttivini Member

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    Shops are still open in The Netherlands. Don't know if a 'complete lockdown' is coming.
    I can't enter the workshop, so only the counter, to give them my keys, taking into account the 1.5 meter distance between persons...

    Shocks not 'expensive'?
    If I looking on the internet (Dutch online shops), for 2x 35-229919 and 2x 24-229937 = 2 x 180,- + 2x 150,- euro = 660,- euro's.
    Did you also pay 'around' this amount of money for the Bilstein shocks?
     
  14. jrumball

    jrumball Well-Known Member Sportback Audi A3 etron Cosmos Blue

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    Stay safe we are allowed to go for a walk once a day 2m between people etc ... Garages only for essential work Strange times

    Maybe I have prices wrong honestly don’t think it was that much though ! Maybe prices are all messed up at the moment, I have a vague memory of them coming from Germany
     
  15. Tuttivini

    Tuttivini Member

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    @jrumball is your E-Tron still without any new troubles? Still no water/electrical faults?

    At the end of this month my E-Tron is going to a local expert who is going to replace the strut mounts/bearings.
    The mechanic who installed the Eibach Pro kit, couldn't solve it with only lubricating all rubbers, so I contacted a local expert.
    He listened to a recording I made with the small creaking sound I hear when steering (only when driving slowly or stand still) and is 99% sure this is caused by the strut mounts/bearings. Should have replaced them in the first place (while fitting the Eibach springs). Would have saved me a lot of money...

    So, now that the end of the month is approaching, I doubt whether I'm just going to ask him to replace the stock springs back (together with new strut mounts/bearings), or only install those new strut mounts/bearings (on top of the Eibach springs) or ask him for a good price for the Bilstein B8 shocks (installed with the new strut mounts/bearings and the Eibach springs)...
    choices, choices, choices ....

    (A good coilover kit isn't an option because they don't 'exist' (midrange models) or are way to expensive)

    The main reason I'm not satisfied is for the same reason you described exactly a year ago:
    "I initially just had the Eibach Prokit springs and new top mounts fitted as Eibach said they will work with the factory shocks. This may of been the case for brand new shocks (mine were at 30k miles) and nice German roads. It was not the case for my shocks and UK roads... They made the car handle much better (it cornered flatter and was much more planted), but the ride was embarrassingly bouncy ! The shocks could not control the springs...."

    If I drive through a small pothole, it feels like I have no 'suspension' at all... Zero comfort. Like if I do this to often, I'm going to bent a wheel :frowning:

    Do you recognize this?
    Can you describe how you experience the behavior of your E-Tron when you drive through small potholes, like this:
    [​IMG]

    And what about 'ground clearance'?
    Have you ever scraped something underneath? (I did a couple of times)
    I noticed, when driving over certain speedbumps in town, I really have to slow down to ~20mph, where I normally easily could do ~30+mph.
    I looked underneath and ground clearance on the lowest points is only ~3.7 inches (9.5 centimeter)....

    Sorry for a the questions, but I hope you (and other forum members with lowering-experiences) can help me!
     
  16. etron Wales

    etron Wales New Member

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    I've recently had the Eibach Pro kit fitted to my e tron. I'm still on standard shocks and I don't feel the need to upgrade to Bilstein B8 shocks. I've only noticed a difference to comfort over large speed bumps (the type you don't need to line up for) - I haven't experienced a 'bouncy' ride. In fact, I'd say the standard springs used to bounce over speed bumps, whereas the Eibach springs result in more of a sharp jolt.

    For anyone in 2 minds about upgrading to Eibach springs - don't. They've transformed the car. I used to own a Ford Focus ST Line and the e tron now handles as well as the Ford. They've also removed the comical looking arch gap, giving a much sportier appearance.

    I'm surprised to read that the Bilstein shocks affect the ride height. I thought only the springs would change the height of the car.
     
  17. Tuttivini

    Tuttivini Member

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    @etron Wales
    Last weekend I had my Eibach Pro springs removed. Back to stock again :bye:... (
    unfortunately, because it looked much much much better and drove sportier and
    precisely on flat roads).


    This is because the ride height was to low, I scraped the bottom often and potholes where awfull (described in my post above).

    Ground clearance, underneath the car, looking at the lowest points (for example the round plastic jacking points) was only ~9.5cm, measured from the ground....

    I noticed that ground-t0-fender height, when lowered, was around 64/64.5cm.
    The ground-to-fender height on original springs is 68.5/69cm.
    So almost 5cm difference!?
    This is lower than the 3/3.5cm Eibach mentioned for this specific kit.

    Can you measure your ground-to-fender heights and ground clearance underneath de A3 E-Tron on the lowest parts please?

    I'm now in contact with Bilstein, looking for a decent B14 coilover kit.... Because a good coilover kit is the only possibility to adjust the ride height exactly how I want it to be, looks vs comfort...
     
  18. jrumball

    jrumball Well-Known Member Sportback Audi A3 etron Cosmos Blue

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    The state of the UK roads is no better in some places ! I Think if you want suspension that will deal with holes like that you are going down the wrong route I would dilliberatly avoid holes like that .

    I have not found the ground clearance to be a problem just have to be aware sometimes, but I have had a few low cars so it is something I consider while driving .

    I have not bought the front lip yet and can only think of once where I have bought the under try and this was on a terrible dirt track in a rain storm .

    Yes because you have lowered and stiffened the suspension the ca will not deal as well with speed bumps I do the same, I've always slow down anyway saves the life of the normal suspension and my back !

    Hope that helps
     
  19. jrumball

    jrumball Well-Known Member Sportback Audi A3 etron Cosmos Blue

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    Compared to a normal A3 the e-tron is a heavy car it's quite noticeably on a back to back drive, this combined with rural roads which vary immensely in quality and maintenance lead to a terribly bouncy ride.

    Do you know the history of your car was it only driven in towns what milage is it at and even wether it has new shocks, be interesting o see what the part numbers are and date stamps as you have a PFL e-tron

    Not quite sure what you mean by changing the ride height the B8s didn't change the ride height ? The springs did !
     
  20. jrumball

    jrumball Well-Known Member Sportback Audi A3 etron Cosmos Blue

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    Where exactly would you like me to measure to compare ?
     
  21. etron Wales

    etron Wales New Member

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    I haven’t driven a petrol only A3 to compare, but they’re probably comparable to my previous Focus. The extra weight of the e tron is a lot more obvious on standard springs (the bounciness doesn’t help).

    In your original post you uploaded photos showing the difference in height between the standard shocks and Bilstein shocks, for example, “B12 rear 590mm from bottom of rim to arch” and “Rear ProKit Springs Dynamic Shocks 598mm”. I took this to mean a difference in height based on Bilstein shocks and Eibach springs. Sorry if I’ve misunderstood.
     
  22. jrumball

    jrumball Well-Known Member Sportback Audi A3 etron Cosmos Blue

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    Don't know if I would compare an A3 to a focus.. =)

    Probably an error in my measurement or they hadn't settled yet ? Was a while ago
     
  23. etron Wales

    etron Wales New Member

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    I’ve taken those measurement quotes from your first post in this thread.
     
  24. jrumball

    jrumball Well-Known Member Sportback Audi A3 etron Cosmos Blue

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    Think somethings getting lost in translation.
     

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