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Big end gone on 64 plate

Vinny bumstead Aug 11, 2019

  1. Vinny bumstead

    Vinny bumstead New Member

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    Hi all , thought I'd share my bad luck
    64 plate , full service history, 40,000 miles , standard as factory
    last serviced Audi Maidstone on the 24th of June full service and inspection.£600+

    Basically driving on the m25 and EPC light comes on , car starts to lose Abit of power and gets a bit shaky
    I pulled over and had the car recover to my home
    managed to get an appointment with Audi Maidstone a few days later and the car put on the back of a truck and took it to there .
    £100 later and I'm told I need a new engine as the big end has gone .....I know nothing about engines apart from how to break them apparently
    I got the car at 30.000 miles over a year ago from a Audi specialist based in buckinghamshire, car has one owner before me
    So I ask Audi Maidstone how much to fix and I'm told £11,000 for a new engine and another 2000 to remove the old engine lol
    I ask for Goodwill and they will not help me at all basically I'm on my own, they are saying because the cars out of warranty they won't help at all

    I haven't got the money to do this obviously and I don't know what to do now
    everyone ive spoken to has told me to take it further as the car is not thrashed and it has full service history
    Should I ring Audi uk or am I banging my head against a brick wall here
     
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  3. gary3306

    gary3306 Well-Known Member TeamMisano Gold Supporter VCDS Map User TDi Audi A6 Audi Avant Owner Group Black Edition S-line owners group

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    I would ring Audi UK. If it has full Audi service history and only done 40k then for the big end to go that's shocking. Take it all the way mate, they should be held to account for that. Good luck
     
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  4. Vinny bumstead

    Vinny bumstead New Member

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    Thanks for your reply mate ....gonna ring them Monday than
     
  5. Ormesome

    Ormesome Well-Known Member TDi quattro S tronic S-line owners group Quantum Grey Q2 owners group

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    Your car is between 4.5 and 5yrs old, if it had standard 3yr warranty then im not sure Audi UK will do anything as you are nearly 2yrs out of warranty. i would only expect a goodwill gesture if only recently out of warranty, extended or normal 3yrs. Admitadly it is low mileage, but its asking a lot. Fingers crossed for you. I do not have any real advice unfortunatly but just keep trying to get some cash towards it, email or phone Audi UK.

    BTW, what engine is it? manual or auto? Full service history but with inspection and service at the required date?
     
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  6. Cw18

    Cw18 New Member

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    I think I would be playing the card that it is not reasonable to expect a car of that age and mileage to go wrong in that way. Even though it’s out of warranty the car should be expected to last longer than that. There was a story on another forum recently of a similar situation which the above reasoning worked out for the customer.
     
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  7. TYb

    TYb Well-Known Member TFSI Owners Group Team Navarra Audi S3

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    You have to push as hard as you can, if the car has been maintained correctly you shouldn’t have such a failure.

    Whilst pursuing Audi I would also speak to a specialist indi, they’ll consider 2nd hand/reconditioned engines rather than a brand new unit, could bring the costs done for you.
     
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  8. Wibbly

    Wibbly Active Member Team Glacier TFSI Owners Group Audi A3 S-line owners group Manual

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    I hope you get it sorted by them/they help in some way, but beware Audi can't be held responsible for how the car was treated even by its first owner between services, it's not under warranty, etc., etc. Certainly I would pursue independents to get it exchanged for a reconditioned unit or even recondition yours. £13,000 is LOT of workshop time (albeit parts need to be added). You may get lucky and find somewhere reputable that would do it for a lot less.

    One other thought - I've heard of the worst of the Audi dealers badly "miss-diagnosing" problems, suggesting big bills that were not required. One that comes to mind recommended a gearbox replacement to fix a problem that turned out to require ignition lead replacement! I'm NOT saying Audi Maidstone is such a dealer. Certainly your symptoms are consistent with a potential big end failure and the dealer should have checked basic stuff to further confirm this, but it might be worth getting a second opinion... Given the potential cost Audi might at least pay for someone else to confirm the diagnosis?
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  9. musicegbdf

    musicegbdf Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi S3

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    Two thoughts.
    I seem to recall for cars there is a six year responsibility in law for major issues like yours and the warranty is not relevant. Is it over six years old ?

    If it is over 6 years old and you do have a problem then as others have said go to a good indy . Chat with them first before paying to move the car.
    As audi to explain why the big end has gone . Was there another failure that caused it ? Oil pump failure?
    If it is a big end only it might be repairable rather than new engine.
    I do not know the audi engine , but some engines it is possible to drop the sump and replace the shells with engine in place . Again chat to the indy.
    40 k miles with FSH is very poor. Which engine is it ?
     
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  10. AlS3BE

    AlS3BE Well-Known Member

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    Another thing to remember is dealerships generally won’t repair an engine and suggest that it needs replaced instead as it’s easier and more cost effective for them as none of the techs would be trained as engine builders.
    Also I would be asking how they came to that conclusion especially at £100 diagnosis which is really 1 hour labour at dealerships possibly less. In 1 hour they wouldn’t have had the sump or bottom end apart to tell the big end has gone.
    Sounds to me it’s a case of computer says it’s broken rather than a full proper diagnosis been done.
     
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  11. Wibbly

    Wibbly Active Member Team Glacier TFSI Owners Group Audi A3 S-line owners group Manual

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    Yep, my guess is maybe they just did an oil pressure test and together with "car starts to lose Abit of power and gets a bit shaky" assumed big end issues, regardless of it oil pump failure has caused it.
     
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  13. Wibbly

    Wibbly Active Member Team Glacier TFSI Owners Group Audi A3 S-line owners group Manual

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    Really interested if you have some kind of reference for this. Presumably onus is on the owner to somehow prove it's not been used for racing etc., which would be difficult, not least if you've not been the only owner.
     
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  14. Matt Titanium

    Matt Titanium Well-Known Member Team Navarra Audi S3 Manual

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    Big end bearings starting to wear used to knock a bit at tickover when oil pressure was lower then get worse over several thousand miles. Unless engine design has fundamentally changed without telling us, sudden loss of power isn't consistent with big end bearing wear and a new set of shells won't cure anything.
    As a long shot, it could be a fractured conrod, now slack on a crank pin the but very unlikely unless you were revving the nuts off it at the time. The engine would be knocking like hell if this has happened.

    "The big end has gone" all sounds a bit vague and more like they don't want to work on it to find out. Unfortunately "Master Techs" only know how to change a few bolt on bits and rely on the their computer diagnostics to tell them which bit to change next.

    I'd stage a two pronged attack. Contact Audi UK and also make an appointment to see Maidstone's Service Manager and Head of Business.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  15. Damo S

    Damo S Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with the above. Doesn't seem consistent with a big end failure. It would be worth having a second opinion.

    If it is that then 2nd hand engine is probably the way to go. I believe you can pick them up for about 1500 quid since there are a lot of them about (the same engine is used in a lot of different cars), and a couple of days labour to swap it over. I don't think there are any engineering companies who are providing reconditioned ones yet (not looked particularly hard but havent been able to find any to date).
     
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  16. musicegbdf

    musicegbdf Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi S3

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    https://www-moneyadviceservice-org-...ur-rights-if-something-is-wrong-with-your-car

    Hope the link works, but it comes from the money advice service
     
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  17. musicegbdf

    musicegbdf Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi S3

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    Agree with others does not sound like big end . There would have been knocking and smoke.
    Could even be a dodgy valve . The simple test would be to drain a little oil from the sump and have it tested. The test would show if there are particles in the oil from the shells.
     
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  18. Marky-s3

    Marky-s3 Well-Known Member

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    I'm confident you can get an engine new from tps cheaper than that lol
     
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  19. Vinny bumstead

    Vinny bumstead New Member

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    Hi guys
    Thanks for all the replies
    Ok so as I said I know nothing about engines but my father in law has been a mechanic for 27 + years and is confident that it is my big end knocking
    The engine still starts and sounds to me like a chain knocking inside the metal casing that sits on the left had side of the engine ....see I know nothing about engines lol ,
    As soon as my father in-law opened the bonnet he said it sounds like the big end and that was before it went into Audi

    Anyway been in contact with Audi UK and I'm getting the same message , there's nothing we can do as the car is out of warranty

    I've been in contact with a company that reckon they can recondition my engine for 2450 , if it is only a big end knocking

    They are gonna replace lots of other bits aswell
    it comes with 12000 miles or one year warranty which ever comes first
    They are gonna take a few pic of my oil pump aswell just incase I want to get back at Audi as they are pretty confident is going to be an oil pump failure that has caused this .....but they are saying all this without even looking at the car yet

    Hopefully the car will go in next week and I'll let you know how it goes
     
  20. DW81

    DW81 Well-Known Member

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    This is why you have to go down the specialist route as you are. Audi will like all dealerships have no interest in repairing the broken part but just throwing a new part on and pulling down your pants on the price. Glad you may have it sorted
     
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  21. GW1

    GW1 Active Member

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    I would give trading standards a call. I know that anything you buy must be of reasonable quality and what a customers expectations are. The three year warranty is no barrier to making a claim through the courts. I had a very expensive washing machine that packed up after 6 years and the manufacturers didn’t play ball, so I took them to court and won.
     
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  22. eribaMotters

    eribaMotters Active Member

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    If you can run the "fitness for purpose" route you may have some success, which is what I'm guessed happened with GW1 and his washing machine. The length of warranty/guarantee is not relevant and is over-ridden in this instance. I believe there is no age limit on the goods although I have heard 7 yrs is sometimes used as a reasonable time frame.

    Colin
     
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  23. wab172uk

    wab172uk Now in an X3 M40i

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    I have just been through this myself. EPC light, then running like a bag of nails at tick-over.

    Mine was a faulty injector, that caused the Piston seals to break. Result? New engine required. The bill just to find the fault was running at £2500. My car is a 2015 S3, and out of warranty.

    You need to pursue this with Audi. Your dealer sound like they can't be bothered. My dealer was great. Sent the report to Germany, and as my car had always been serviced at that dealership, and the car wasn't modified in any way, Germany said yes to a brand new engine. I was originally quoted £13000 (including the costs so far) but once everything was totted up, it was coming out at just over £18,000. The only thing Audi wouldn't pay for was the engine re-installation costs. Dealer fought to get some money back, and they did. I ended up paying £3166 but that included new rear brake disc and pads, and a couple other small things I had done while it was there.

    If Audi had said no, I'd have been in s**t creak, and would have had to pay my dealer £2500 for the work they'd done to find the problem.

    So my advise is contact Audi customer services and fight to have the engine stripped and the fault found. If Audi admit it shouldn't have happened with an engine on that miles, then you might get a better result than what you have now.
     
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  24. L_G

    L_G Active Member Sportback Team Daytona Team V6 Audi S5

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    A potential snag with taking Audi to court is that the contract (and the statutory protection that goes along with that) would have been with the original owner.

    If it was possible to demonstrate that the fault was present when you bought the car then you should be able take this up with the specialist who sold you the car. Had this fault manifested itself in the first six months then the presumption is that it had been that the fault was present at the point of sale.
     
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  25. AlS3BE

    AlS3BE Well-Known Member

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    Big end going is normally some form of oil starvation. Whether oil pump or just running low on oil or even using wrong grade of oil.
    The difficulty is proving it is an inherent fault or a design problem.
    If it turned out the oil pump had been faulty that could have been caused by running low on oil so that comes back to the users of the car was driving it incorrectly.
    It’s gonna be a battle to get Audi to stump up anything but it’s definitely worth asking/discussing as the worse is they say no and you back at square 1 again. It might be worth speaking to the motor ombudsman or trading standards for some advice and if your car is financed then speak to the finance company as they have a vested interest in the car.
     
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  26. Vinny bumstead

    Vinny bumstead New Member

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    Hi all
    Car has never run low on oil in the year that I've had it
    I was aways checking the oil level as a friend had told me some times they can burn some off
    Also the car was put into Audi Maidstone on the 24 June for a full service and inspection.
    A few weeks later she goes bang lol .
    I also forgot to mention that Audi want 2000 +
    To investigate further......which Im not willing to pay as I can put that money towards getting the engine rebuild
    I don't want to give them a anymore of my money for them to say yes this is the problem and now you need to find 13000+ for us to fix it , I paid 25.000 cash for the car and can't justify spending another 15000 to get it back on the road , this is my 4th Audi and will mostly definitely be my last
     
  27. Matt Titanium

    Matt Titanium Well-Known Member Team Navarra Audi S3 Manual

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    All pure conjecture, but sounds more and more like possible oil pump failure. If that had happened I would have expected the car to throw up a low oil pressure warning immediately. If you then kept driving, metal to metal contact, rapid wear and bearing failures as well as overheating, throwing up another warning, then the pistons expanded and started to rub/seize in their bores resulting in power loss.
    I would be surprised if the car hasn't stored the oil pressure/ engine temp info plus more and would expect Audi to be able to recover a timeline - and if the car continued to be driven with these warnings to argue their corner against a claim.
    If this is the case, it would suggest far more extensive damage, the engine would be beyond economic repair and a used engine would be your best and most economic solution.
     
  28. L_G

    L_G Active Member Sportback Team Daytona Team V6 Audi S5

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    Two further thoughts;

    If you paid any of the car via credit card then it could be worth discussing the matter with them, also worth checking your household and any other insurance policies for legal cover.
     
  29. musicegbdf

    musicegbdf Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi S3

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    Vinny really feel for you . That is a nightmare.
    Don't wish to add to the woes , but if it was an oil pump failure there may be more damage than just big end.
    That is now a real conundrum. May be worth asking the indy their opinion , you could always put audi on notice that you intend to have the repair done elsewhere and if they wish to inspect the car before work is carried they need to arrange with you within say 14 calendar days as you intend to persue the matter further.
    If you do end up in court that would hold you in good stead If you can always not go that route later . Putting them on notice costs nothing.
    I would send to Audi uk ,copy to the dealer.
    Good luck
     
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