Best rated stock fitment hybrid, and best way to set boost pressure?

Solberg

Registered User
Thinking of changing my frankenturbo, any opinions on which turbo that fits on "stock" manifold and downpipe has the highest power output per today? I see some sell k04 hybrids or gt turbo with 1.8t flanges rated at 400hp, is this really gainable without uprated cams and meth?

Tuning/mapping the engine, today I run the car without my N75, I have the n75-vacuum hose coming from the charge pipe running straight to the wastegate with an MBC in-line to set my boost pressure. I know that alot of you in here and other places dont like this but why is that? The way I have it now one click on the MBC is equal to 0,1 bar, very easy to adjust, when I ran mbc in paralell with the n75, one click would give maybe 0,2 bar more pressure, and 2 clicks and it would go down -0,1bar fex, it was really weird and annoying to adjust with mbc in paralell. Also like I have it now without N75 and mbc between chargepipe and wastegate I get sooner boost than with n75, and when it first start to boost I have full bost all the way till redline without dipping off, it boosts really hard. Using the n75 with mbc in paralell the boost can be slow, tapers off, overboosting, and what not.

So for you that are experience in tuning these engines what way is the best way to control boost pressure when mapping?
1. N75 with stock plumbing?
2. N75 with MBC in parallel?
3. No N75, vacuum straight from charge pipe to wastegate with MBC inline?
4. Or any other options?

My engine was remapped on dyno after fitting frankenturbo by preowner, when I got it it had mbc in paralell and set to 1,1bar, I have no idea why the tuner have used an mbc, are you not able to adjust boost with using the n75 stock without mbc?


And the last question, today I use NGK BKR7EKT1 gapped to 0,028" is this good for maxing out a k04 hybrid or what ever other stock fitment aftermarket high output turbo I would use or should I bring other plugs when mapping?
 

Tj 0785

Registered User
VCDS Map User
Bronze Supporter
Silver Supporter
Best results on a ko4 hybrid is probably the badger5 with the ported manifold, is also ditch the mbc and just stick with the n75. People are running 600 bhp with it and no mbc
 

Solberg

Registered User
I see... I guess Bill wil find this thread sometime and answer to that. I have chinafold fitted today, dont really want to take it off unless gains are very noticeable.

If running n75 in stock fitment is the best that would ofcourse be nice, not having to messaround with vacuum pipes all over the places and MBC hanging. I just dont get why so many use MBC in parallell, and why even my tuner have used one if using n75 stock is better? Maybe my tuner is **** and I should find another one? xD

I also have an AJL bigport head if that has anything to say on picking turbo.
 

Tj 0785

Registered User
VCDS Map User
Bronze Supporter
Silver Supporter
Small port heads are better for hybrid, I don’t get why the mbc is needed I know the ecu can only read (could be wrong) 26psi and you have to alter some things to trick it into seeing more, I always thought that mbc were for old “dumb” turbos cats back in the day where the ecu wasn’t like it is today
I’m sure someone with more knowledge will be along soon and help you out
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
Small port heads are better for hybrid, I don’t get why the mbc is needed I know the ecu can only read (could be wrong) 26psi and you have to alter some things to trick it into seeing more, I always thought that mbc were for old “dumb” turbos cats back in the day where the ecu wasn’t like it is today
I’m sure someone with more knowledge will be along soon and help you out

ME7 can only see 22psi/1.5bar... back in ye olde days before techniques for open loop boost control on ME7 were discovered the only reliable way to get more than 22psi was to let ME7 over boost and use an MBC in parallel to cap boost where you wanted it... this allowed 'controlled' boost over 1.5 bar but was crude... alternatively you could use the MBC on its own (very crude and **** drivability) or an EBC...

I have used both MBC and EBC in the past and while it allows you to get boost above MAP sensor limit the part throttle drivability is generally rubbish

Now that open loop control is a thing then there is no real need to use an MBC at all... this is assuming that the tuner you use knows how to tune ME7 in open loop...

Alternatively you can use a standalone like the Ignitron I use... I have recently added map switching in so now have a 1.2bar, 1.6bar and 2bar map...

<tuffty/>
 

Stuart B

Registered User
I thought Solberg's weird arrangement of N75 in parallel with an MBC was trying to overcome an issue rather than performance related.
 

Tj 0785

Registered User
VCDS Map User
Bronze Supporter
Silver Supporter
ME7 can only see 22psi/1.5bar... back in ye olde days before techniques for open loop boost control on ME7 were discovered the only reliable way to get more than 22psi was to let ME7 over boost and use an MBC in parallel to cap boost where you wanted it... this allowed 'controlled' boost over 1.5 bar but was crude... alternatively you could use the MBC on its own (very crude and **** drivability) or an EBC...

I have used both MBC and EBC in the past and while it allows you to get boost above MAP sensor limit the part throttle drivability is generally rubbish

Now that open loop control is a thing then there is no real need to use an MBC at all... this is assuming that the tuner you use knows how to tune ME7 in open loop...

Alternatively you can use a standalone like the Ignitron I use... I have recently added map switching in so now have a 1.2bar, 1.6bar and 2bar map...

<tuffty/>

I think the map sensor limit is 2550Mbar so depending on ambient pressure 1014Mbar can read up to about 22psi - but there is some commentary from Tuffty on how you can deal with more instead of guessing.

I thought Solberg's weird arrangement of N75 in parallel with an MBC was trying to overcome an issue rather than performance related.

Ha Ha Tuffty has posted already making it look like I didn't read the thread
I knew it was 20 something but couldn’t remember as I seen tuffty mention it not long ago
 

Stuart B

Registered User
Solberg doesn't have a stock downpipe he fitted a 3 inch downpipe and decat a couple of years ago.

Solberg, is your chinafold port matched (I mean on the exhaust port side - or is a large port head only on the intake?!)? Badger5 sells his turbo with the chinafold and TIP - but I think you can buy the turbo separately (but it does come with the V2.2 billet already connected to the intake.
 

Tj 0785

Registered User
VCDS Map User
Bronze Supporter
Silver Supporter
Yes but in the link they say it’s 400bhp and can be used with the stock downpipe and manifold
Solberg doesn't have a stock downpipe he fitted a 3 inch downpipe and decat a couple of years ago.

Solberg, is your chinafold port matched? Badger5 sells his turbo with the chinafold and TIP
 

Solberg

Registered User
Solberg doesn't have a stock downpipe he fitted a 3 inch downpipe and decat a couple of years ago.

Solberg, is your chinafold port matched (I mean on the exhaust port side - or is a large port head only on the intake?!)? Badger5 sells his turbo with the chinafold and TIP - but I think you can buy the turbo separately (but it does come with the V2.2 billet already connected to the intake.

I am not sure how the flow is on chinafold from franken vs badger manifold... maybe bill knowss?

AJL head is fitted before I owned the car so dont now much about that. All I know is that my head code says AJL, and I have a IE phenoleic spacer to the inlet manifold with the big to smallport adapter.
 
Last edited:

Tj 0785

Registered User
VCDS Map User
Bronze Supporter
Silver Supporter
I have 3" zinram turboback and frankenturbos "chinafold" manifold. But fitment on turbo need to be "stock".
The point I was making was if they are claiming it can make 400 bhp that’s one thing but to suggest it can in stock manifold and down pipe is bull
 

badger5

www.badger5.co.uk
Site Sponsor
Thinking of changing my frankenturbo, any opinions on which turbo that fits on "stock" manifold and downpipe has the highest power output per today? I see some sell k04 hybrids or gt turbo with 1.8t flanges rated at 400hp, is this really gainable without uprated cams and meth?

Tuning/mapping the engine, today I run the car without my N75, I have the n75-vacuum hose coming from the charge pipe running straight to the wastegate with an MBC in-line to set my boost pressure. I know that alot of you in here and other places dont like this but why is that? The way I have it now one click on the MBC is equal to 0,1 bar, very easy to adjust, when I ran mbc in paralell with the n75, one click would give maybe 0,2 bar more pressure, and 2 clicks and it would go down -0,1bar fex, it was really weird and annoying to adjust with mbc in paralell. Also like I have it now without N75 and mbc between chargepipe and wastegate I get sooner boost than with n75, and when it first start to boost I have full bost all the way till redline without dipping off, it boosts really hard. Using the n75 with mbc in paralell the boost can be slow, tapers off, overboosting, and what not.

So for you that are experience in tuning these engines what way is the best way to control boost pressure when mapping?
1. N75 with stock plumbing?
2. N75 with MBC in parallel?
3. No N75, vacuum straight from charge pipe to wastegate with MBC inline?
4. Or any other options?

My engine was remapped on dyno after fitting frankenturbo by preowner, when I got it it had mbc in paralell and set to 1,1bar, I have no idea why the tuner have used an mbc, are you not able to adjust boost with using the n75 stock without mbc?


And the last question, today I use NGK BKR7EKT1 gapped to 0,028" is this good for maxing out a k04 hybrid or what ever other stock fitment aftermarket high output turbo I would use or should I bring other plugs when mapping?

if you dont have access to the map, then YOUR only choice is dicking around with mbc's and the like or ebc's
N75 can be programmed to do whatever you want, AND importantly can deliver a variable boost level against load.. so not On OFF set level like an MBC

question is access to ecu vs diy and not... which is mbc/ebc for you
*presumes arbitrary boost mods are all thats required to keep everything else happy.. (fueling, ign, knock etc etc)
 

badger5

www.badger5.co.uk
Site Sponsor
I see... I guess Bill wil find this thread sometime and answer to that. I have chinafold fitted today, dont really want to take it off unless gains are very noticeable.

If running n75 in stock fitment is the best that would ofcourse be nice, not having to messaround with vacuum pipes all over the places and MBC hanging. I just dont get why so many use MBC in parallell, and why even my tuner have used one if using n75 stock is better? Maybe my tuner is **** and I should find another one? xD

I also have an AJL bigport head if that has anything to say on picking turbo.
if your mapper has to use mbc to cap spike he's not a good me7.5 tuner
 

badger5

www.badger5.co.uk
Site Sponsor
I am not sure how the flow is on chinafold from franken vs badger manifold... maybe bill knowss?

AJL head is fitted before I owned the car so dont now much about that. All I know is that my head code says AJL, and I have a IE phenoleic spacer to the inlet manifold with the big to smallport adapter.
our ported chinafold which is only available as part of our k04-380 kit is ported way more than dougs item.
 

Solberg

Registered User
if you dont have access to the map, then YOUR only choice is dicking around with mbc's and the like or ebc's
N75 can be programmed to do whatever you want, AND importantly can deliver a variable boost level against load.. so not On OFF set level like an MBC

question is access to ecu vs diy and not... which is mbc/ebc for you
*presumes arbitrary boost mods are all thats required to keep everything else happy.. (fueling, ign, knock etc etc)
Aha, ill talk with my tuner about it then, best for me would be running without mbc just stock n75 plumbing, dont really have a hunger to adjust anything myself, just want max HP and keep it "safe".

How do you compare your k04 hybrid with the one from atp i linked above bill? And what is the max pressure before it gets too hot?

And I guess I have ME7, its a smallband 05.1999 APY engine.
 

badger5

www.badger5.co.uk
Site Sponsor
Aha, ill talk with my tuner about it then, best for me would be running without mbc just stock n75 plumbing, dont really have a hunger to adjust anything myself, just want max HP and keep it "safe".

How do you compare your k04 hybrid with the one from atp i linked above bill? And what is the max pressure before it gets too hot?

And I guess I have ME7, its a smallband 05.1999 APY engine.
The k04-380 is way nicer a k04 hybrid.. The eliminator is as laggy as a large frame gt30 but without the power gains.. We have mapped a few which as said have been pretty laggy for a k04 "type" turbo, but have struggled to 340bhp levels, and got pretty damned hot..

I have yet to see a k04-02x type hybrid turbo perform like the k04-380 does..

If you wanted to go GT2871, go for a full frame garrett, it will be more power potential than any k04 hybrid.

The downside for lhd is going to be TIP fitment remember. Not much space with brake master cylinder and servo that side
 
Top