1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Best intercooler for 8V?

RS-Basti Aug 29, 2017

  1. RS-Basti

    RS-Basti New Member

    18
    1
    3
    Hi guys,
    I have a RS3 that does 510hp and 650Nm (limited due to gearbox/clutches) with a 100cell dp, original exhaust, opened induction and a special turbocharger that lies somewhere in between the TTE500 and 625. The turbocharger was done by RUF as well as the Software for the engine and gearbox.
    I have issues after a couple of pulls with the air tempereatures.
    I now want to upgrade the intercooler.
    In my opinion the three best choice are Forge, airtec and probably the MTR Clubsport intercooler. The Wagner is using a "tube and fin" design core and is less efficient and produces to much pressure loss. Forge and airtec are both using the more efficient and expensive "bar and plate" cores and are definitely superior to the Wagner ICs. I guess MTR is also using bar and plate, but I am still waiting for their answer and Price.
    Here are the different Versions:
    Airtec:
    http://www.airtec-cooling.co.uk/product/airtec-intercooler-audi-rs3-8v/
    forge:
    https://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/Audi_RS3_8V_Intercooler_2015--product--1474.html
    and in the Picture, Nr.1 is the 8V MTR Clubsport IC

    Has anybody done some testing with these ICs? Even though forge and airtec are stating different volumes, it Looks like they have roughly the same size and designand both are using Standard "bar and plate" cores. Therefore I assume that the performance will be similar. Most "bar and plate" cores are very similar, except you go for the really expensive aeromotive Quality cores, but then the Price would probaly be at leat double, maybe even three times higher.
    Is there any experience in the difference of these two ICs?
    Has anybody ever tried the MTR Clubsport IC?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Avatar

    Google AdSense Advertisement


  3. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Well-Known Member Team Racing Blue Mica Audi RS3 quattro Sportback

    6,089
    3,817
    113
    LuckyLee likes this.
  4. RS-Basti

    RS-Basti New Member

    18
    1
    3
    Ok,
    but I saw that he changed from Forge to Wagner because of asthetical reasons...
    I think we have a different approach.
    I come from the racing world (i race VLN and lots of historical cars, incl. a 993GT2Evo with Secan intercoolers ;-) ) and have lots of high-power street and race cars and therfore I know a Little about theses things
     
    terminator x likes this.
  5. Hal Adams

    Hal Adams Well-Known Member Team Nardo VCDS Map User Audi RS3 Black Edition

    530
    263
    63
    Then you need to talk to Tom Wrigley! He not only races but enjoys playing with the RS3. He though favours Wagner, so plenty of scope for animated discussion if you do not like it!
    Go to the stickies section at top of this chat room and his write up and contact details are six threads down.
     
  6. dunes7

    dunes7 Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi RS3

    1,418
    3,206
    113
    Have "Ruf" offered you any advice on the issue you now have?
     
  7. EdmundVR4

    EdmundVR4 New Member

    8
    2
    3
  8. Hal Adams

    Hal Adams Well-Known Member Team Nardo VCDS Map User Audi RS3 Black Edition

    530
    263
    63
    I am with you on this one - you can buy it without the HF logo on it, and as it uses the existing crash bar it can (in most cases, will) go unnoticed as a 'competition' add-on and not spark any warranty questions. However, I do wonder with the crash bar in place if any efficiency worth talking about is lost... But, yes, it is definitely the most aesthetic.
     
  9. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team V6 Audi RS4

    3,421
    3,798
    113
    RUF who the f**k are they ;)

    TX.

    Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk
     
  10. D0C

    D0C Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team Panther Audi RS3 TTRS

    2,445
    2,213
    113
    I can't tell if you're joking?!
     
  11. dunes7

    dunes7 Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi RS3

    1,418
    3,206
    113
    Call yourself a car enthusiast and yet you've never heard of "Ruf" Porsches :)

    http://ruf-automobile.de/en/
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
    RS4B5 likes this.
  12. Avatar

    Google AdSense Advertisement


  13. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team V6 Audi RS4

    3,421
    3,798
    113
    Smiley :tearsofjoy:

    TX.

    Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk
     
  14. RS-Basti

    RS-Basti New Member

    18
    1
    3
    Ruf is usually using aeromotive "bar and plate" cores. I could do this as well, but the IC would probably cost around €3-4k
    But I think there are other Options on the market, like Forge Airtec, that are reasonably good.
    HG-Motorsport is actually using a decent Quality core, but I do not like the design with almost 1/3 of the surface area being covered
     
  15. Rocketer

    Rocketer Active Member

    252
    57
    28
    Isn't IC one of the first things to swap out for better inlet temp on our cars if going for higher figueres than 420-430hp?

    What is the cost to get 510hp? It's interesting comparing different ways.

    How can you know which ic is the best? You have to measure flow and how much cooling area and god knows what to get it right. I have seen some threads comparing to oem and all aftermarket ic are better but of course the question is which is the best?
     
  16. RS-Basti

    RS-Basti New Member

    18
    1
    3
    Thank you for the input.
    After some discussions with people here in Germany that had mapped Cars wir Haben wagner, forge, HG and Abt ICs I will go for the Forge IC. Overall I think it is the best package for me.
    I do not have any input about the airtec IC though. I actually think that it will be quite close to the Forge. Just from the outside I like the end tanks of the Forge more
     
  17. RS-Basti

    RS-Basti New Member

    18
    1
    3
    As soon as we have it installed and mapped I will keep you updated.
    So far I have roughly spent around€ 12k. RUF Turbo mod and cnc inlet opening was around 5k, cat delete and install PE HJS 100cell cat in original housing was around 1,8k, multiple mapping by RUF engineer around 2k, TÜV around 1,5k, etc.
    At the moment I have 507hp and 650NM ( limited) at the Ruf dyno. Ruf is only doing this because I know HP Lieb ( father of Marc Lieb and Ruf master technician/engineer)
     
  18. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

    464
    415
    63
    Fortunately the facelift RS3 hatch/saloon and TTRS all use the RS3 8v pre fl intercooler.

    TTRS crash bar differs but fl RS3 crash bar is same. Expect to see some nice intercoolers over the course of the next year or so land from over the pond.

    My Wagner intercooler is sweet at just over 700hp. The forge is okay, but the coating deteriorates fast. Poor quality coating. Logging showed them to be identical @ 530hp, the wagner had a faster recovery rate.

    The reality is at 550hp I very much doubt it'll make a difference whether you are using a forge or a wagner. So my advice for you would be to buy whatever is cheapest.
     
  19. RS-Basti

    RS-Basti New Member

    18
    1
    3
    Thank you for the input.
    It is logical that the recovery rate of the Wagner is better, because it has not surface area and they are similar in volume.
    Have you got any idea about the pressure loss of the Wagner IC? Most people here in Germany and friends are using wagner, so we will probably do some tests to compare with my Forge IC.
    Still nobody that has any experience with the Airtec? As they are an UK company I thought there must be some members that are using it.
     
  20. RS-Basti

    RS-Basti New Member

    18
    1
    3
  21. dunes7

    dunes7 Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi RS3

    1,418
    3,206
    113
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Glad you've got one sorted and hope it performs well for you :)
     
  22. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

    464
    415
    63
    Is that SAR intercooler a tube and fin?

    I will be testing the HPerformance clubsport intercooler soon.
     
  23. RS-Basti

    RS-Basti New Member

    18
    1
    3
    No, the SAR has a HQ Schweitzer bar and tube core.
    I guess the HPerformance Clubsport will most probably be the SAR IC ;-)
    It is the same one that I posted as a MTR Clubsport IC in the beginning of this thread, but it is actually produced by SAR-Turbotechnik
    http://www.sar-turbotechnik.de/index.php
     
  24. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

    464
    415
    63
    The HPerformance Clubsport isn't an SAR IC ;)
     
  25. RS-Basti

    RS-Basti New Member

    18
    1
    3
    Who told you that?
    I know for a fact that the different Versions for the TTRS/RS3 8P/RS3 8V that are sold by MTR/SAR/HPerformance are the same
    And in the case of the 8V IC it has been mainly developed by SAR Turbotechnik
     
  26. RS-Basti

    RS-Basti New Member

    18
    1
    3
    Aoon,
    you were actually right.
    I just spoke to Tobias about the IC and he told me that they will be producing their own ICs. They sold the MTR ones until now though. He is also using the Software from MTR.
    He said the new ICs will be ready in about 4 weeks. Maybe I should also wait, sounds promising.
     
  27. jren

    jren New Member

    7
    0
    1
  28. Atsushi BESSHO

    Atsushi BESSHO New Member

    1
    1
    3
    I am a Japanese user of PFL 8V with ACC, and with no remappinng, but have exchanged to FORGE's one, in early September .
    Already My RS3 had been installed FORGE high flow valve, turbo and intercooler horeses too.
    Certainly, I feel very good response and more power over 2000rpm.
    Then I think that it is necessary for intercooler, high flow valves and horses, to remapped engine.
     
    bqik likes this.
  29. Ed_rx7

    Ed_rx7 Active Member

    329
    151
    43
    Pics?
     
  30. bqik

    bqik Active Member

    136
    75
    28

    I will do the same as I am doing high mileage to my RS3 8V.

    Done 70.000km in more than one year.

    I travel a lot in hot countries and OEM IC is obviously too small for stock power.

    I dyno'd it in france and result was: 369hp and 496Nm.

    Will install Forge IC and dyno it again.

    regards
     
  31. JamesBaby

    JamesBaby Active Member

    132
    66
    28
    Any updates on the performance of the IC mentioned in this thread?
    In particular the HPerformance Clubsport and SAR IC's.

    Thanks
     
  32. RS-Basti

    RS-Basti New Member

    18
    1
    3
    Yes, and no
    I have bought the HPerformance IC and it will be installed in acouple of weeks.
    It seems that both, the HPerformance and SAR are the best aftermarket ICs available at the Moment and they are similar in Performance. I preferred the finish of the HPerfomance IC and it was €200 cheaper, thats why i went for the HPerformance
     
  33. Avatar

    Google AdSense Advertisement


  34. Veivtappen

    Veivtappen New Member

    10
    11
    3
    Did some research before I decided to go for the Hperformance cooler. Looking at it from a pure performance perspective, it utillizes a large core, the entire core is exposed to airflow (removed oem alu bar) is light weight and nice quality manufacturing.

    Increased the opening in the bumper as well to take advantage of the larger core. Have not measured the IAT yet so can not give a specific number on performance, but for track day use and similiar high boost activity it should allow for long sessions of fun without boost retard.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  35. Ed_rx7

    Ed_rx7 Active Member

    329
    151
    43
    I take it you know it’s not all about size... lol... measure pressure drop also.... across the cooler to ensure your not losing valuable psi.. compared to stock!!!
     
  36. RS4B5

    RS4B5 5 pots

    456
    187
    43
  37. Veivtappen

    Veivtappen New Member

    10
    11
    3
    Ed_rx7, I agree that there are more to it than core size and swapping a smaller one to a very large may represent an increased level of pressure drop.
    All manufacturers mentioned in the thread are serious suppliers with wide background within cooling, and looking at pressure drop tests performed by E-Tuners, STM or others they perform very well in this area.

    My observations before/after install:

    Stock cooler: Peak at 1,75 bar (mid range), reduced down to 1,52 bar at red line.
    New (Hperformance): Peak at 1,77 bar (mid range), reduced down to 1,58 bar at red line.

    During the swap the hoses and clamps were changes as well so I can not tell which change that had most impact on pressure gains. Overall it came out with a system that will handle heat and temperatures much better than the stock cooler, and it gained boost pressure over the stock unit without any changes to software.

    The general cooling capacity seems to be limited by airflow through bumper. Some designs even "hide" the cooler behind the crash bar which really seems strange . . .
     
  38. Ed_rx7

    Ed_rx7 Active Member

    329
    151
    43
    Great... glad to see you’ve done it properly
     
  39. Ed_rx7

    Ed_rx7 Active Member

    329
    151
    43
    Next step WMI?
     
  40. Yeager

    Yeager New Member

    6
    0
    3
    Do you know how thick the HPerformance intercooler is?
    Is it necessary to remove foam and plastic trim from the bumper? (Like the Forge IC).
     
  41. Beebee-one

    Beebee-one Well-Known Member Team Glacier Audi RS3

    336
    568
    93
    This Youtube video showing a timelapse install of the HPerformance IC on an RS3 8V may be of some use.

     
  42. thebc2

    thebc2 Member

    24
    42
    13
    Here is a shot of the Iroz motorsports intercooler. It features cast end tanks and a Garrett core. Might be expensive to ship across the pond, but a very nice intercooler. Also the stock IC for comparison.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Aoon_M likes this.
  43. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

    464
    415
    63
    The Iroz intercooler is the best in the market at the moment. Real Garrett core. Not something from a Chinese catalogue.

    The Wagner core is huge and I wouldn't fit one to my car again. Due to the amount of air that needs to be pressurised across that core there is noticeable lag, this is more noticeable with a bigger turbo. I didn't actually realise how much this affected my car until I went back to stock intercooler with the big turbo in situ.

    If all goes well this year I'll be building another TTRS to circa 700hp, full Iroz spec. I can't wait!
     
    RS4B5 likes this.

Share This Page