1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Dismiss Notice

Beating a Civic Type R

DieselJake Mar 30, 2018

  1. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

    3,776
    1,119
    113
    So yeah basically me and my friends ep3 Type R are neck and neck from 30 to 70+ and I want to edge him as I think it's the perfect benchmark. I'd also like to be quicker from 0 if possible but it's fwd so I'm not sure if theirs much I can do to prevent wheelspin (and no I'm not converting to quattro).

    Type R = bone stock

    My 1.9tdi = BV43 turbo, straight pipe, EGR delete, 5 speed with SRE clutch, short shifter, spare wheel removed, bucket seats, 6 CD changer removed, air con removed, lightweight wheels and 225/45/17 Mitchelin Pilot Sport 4's, mapped on a conservative dyno at 182bhp (realistically 190+ I hope, I also have more mods but these are the ones which affect straight line performance).

    Just looking for any suggestions, I'm considering carbon stuff but the prices are a bit mad, any help is greatly appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
    DrStrange likes this.
  2. Avatar

    snack-media
    Advertisement


  3. Adrian R

    Adrian R Registered User

    71
    17
    8
    Good luck. 16 inch wheels will make it quicker, could wheel spin more. wont look as good.

    Do you have a dyno graph of your toque curve so you can time your gear changes to hit the revs that have max torque for the gear you are going into? If you are already doing that forgive me. If not give it a go. My pal was really good at rallying and he told me that was how he used to extract all the performance he could. Not running it to the red line but running the gear changes to hit the max torque.

    I have a old Hymer motorhome with a 2.9 litre 5 cylinder normally aspirated merc diesel. its a real plodder - doesnt like it much above 55 mph. I fitted a rev counter so i could time the gear changes up and down to hit the sweet spot on the torque curve. Made driving it a lot easier especially on the big hills we have in Wales.

    Good luck with whatever you end up doing with mods as well.
     
    paul wev and DieselJake like this.
  4. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

    3,776
    1,119
    113
    Cheers, I was thinking of getting a set of 16's but I'm not sure it will make allot of difference and it's harder to get wide 16's to accommodate for wide tyres, may get some as winter wheels, 16's might be a tight squeeze on my brakes too.

    Yeah I got a dyno but it's got a nasty torque spike and lack of horses, hoping the spike has ironed it's self out and the bhp is just down to the conservative dyno, really need to get it on another dyno just to see what's happening now. Not sure if it's doing as you say with the revs and torque and in all honesty I'm a bit lost when it comes to tuning, a well known member on here ran some diagnostics on the map and said it was down by about half a bar of boost and was going to write a map but it never ended up happening and I'm not really sure whether it needs doing and where's best to go, should probably get it on another dyno first I guess, here's the dyno anyway (mapped at Darkside):
    [​IMG]
     
  5. sprento

    sprento Registered User

    27
    9
    3
    tdi? I'm sure i've heard of that before, is that a slow burning fuel ????
     
  6. Adrian R

    Adrian R Registered User

    71
    17
    8
    That is an odd looking torque curve.

    What I meant was run the car in each gear and see where 2000 rpm...

    so run in gently in 2nd then 3rd then 4th then 5th

    Then when you are wanting most performance change

    from 1st to 2nd at the speed where 2000 rpm was for 2nd

    from 2nd the 3rd at the speed where 2000 rpm was for 3rd

    from 3rd to 4th at the speed where 2000 rpm was for 4th

    and so on

    that way you should get the strongest acceleration in the next gear

    Have fun
     
    DieselJake likes this.
  7. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

    3,776
    1,119
    113
    Ah gocha, yeah the turbo kicks in around 2200rpm in all gears which I think is about right for the turbo (nicer if the rpm was lower of course but I'm not sure if theirs much more I can do about that).
     
  8. Adrian R

    Adrian R Registered User

    71
    17
    8
    My typo i meant to type 2200 rpm

    I had a golf estate with the pd130 in it and a fairly aggressive map with similar numbers to yours. On 15 inch wheels it would wheel spin a bit in 3rd as you crossed the white lines if the road was a bit damp. was great fun to drive.
     
    DieselJake likes this.
  9. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    7,288
    3,625
    113
    That dyno plot doesn't look good at all. The power is down on where a BV43 should be really. With a decat and a decent FMIC they should be making around 200bhp. This was my PD130 Passat . Ran with the stock map, changed to a phase 1 map then ran it with a BV43 custom code map. The car makes more with the stock map as it was obviously running the BV43 with a decat and FMIC.
    Stage 2 remap.JPG
    http://www.ukpassats.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=56110#p441340
    I did make more changes and fiddled with the map and got it up to 211bhp on the one dyno run. I don't rate Darkside at all for diesel tuning TBH, I wouldn't take a car there.
    Unfortunately the 211bhp dyno run got deleted but this was one from the same day. Similar shape curve to yours just bigger numbers. Too much torque really at 350 Lb/ft , You are better off around the 320Lb/ft mark the clutch really doesn't like 350Lb/ft.
    dyno run april 2013.jpg
    One of my workmates had a Civic EP3 he took to the Pod and ran a 15.1 at 91mph best. I ran a 14.9 at 93mph a few weeks later and he wasn't happy. Old man in diesel estate quicker than him :) . Wouldn't be able to beat him these days though as he drive a Nissan GTR.
     
    DieselJake likes this.
  10. Gazwould

    Gazwould Registered User

    7,487
    3,032
    113
    As what Karl says , dyno dynamics is good as it's the truth , the Darkside remapping is bizarre .

    Needs taking to Rick at Unicorn , Bobby Singh etc .

    There's 30 bhp more to be had and 350 ftlb torque should be OK with the SRE .

    Even with a std turbo and a decent remap would frustrate an S2000 owner .
     
  11. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

    3,776
    1,119
    113
    Cheers, forgot to mention it's got a front mount and decat, tempted to take it Midlands VW just to see how it looks on their dyno compared to the Passat as I really want to get another dyno, could be the same but I'm hoping Darkside's dyno was pessimistic.

    Still a bit lost with the tuning side, just need someone to fiddle with it a bit as I think your right with everything you've said and I'd definitely like to be upsetting ep3's and the like, if I can I'll probably try running the most torque possible and swap to a 6 speed if the SRE clutch can't take it.
     
  12. Avatar

    snack-media
    Advertisement


  13. Gazwould

    Gazwould Registered User

    7,487
    3,032
    113
    You'll be fine , Karl didn't have an uprated 240mm clutch , just a new standard LUK .

    You don't need Midlands dyno , the dyno dynamics was the truth , you just need better remapping , it may show up a hardware issue .
     

Share This Page

Do Not Sell My Personal Information