BBT hybrid with New Badger5 high flow k04 exhaust manifold first tests look promising

s3gazz said:
Lol guys wonder what my car would make on this manifold as it stands my car is making 350bang on bhp at 1.4 bar on the Dino up North
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bring it down to my or nikis dyno to confirm power relative to us "southern monkeys.." :) HEHE
confirms start point power wise. Lottery applies currently.

There is more possible from this manifold, in both terms of egt and overall flow. Its larger than a std/relentless at the collector.
Its construction is somewhat more "robust" shall we say... and its ease of fitting is very straight forward.

Current batch have already sold out, orders being taken on next batch which should be available 2-3 weeks time.
First come first served.. demand is outstripping supply.

Porting of supplied hotsides is available to match the upsize manifold

Got a "lot" of carbide cutters in as I am consuming a lot of these lately..
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Cool bill well when I have the money I'll get a manifold also send turbo to u for boring out to match the bigger size manifold bore then go from there my car is complete at the min just need a better hotside than this china one I have at the min and that's it see u soon haha
 
Please don't be offended by this Bill but the manifold does look similar to the JBS K04 one that had to be ported to stop it choking on cylinder 2.

But this is a total bargain, I was thinking about getting a JBS Ko4 (now marketted as customer code) Manifold for £450 and porting it myself but the Badger5 version is awesome! Already ported and cheaper to boot.

Nice work Bill
 
antwan64og said:
Please don't be offended by this Bill but the manifold does look similar to the JBS K04 one that had to be ported to stop it choking on cylinder 2.

But this is a total bargain, I was thinking about getting a JBS Ko4 (now marketted as customer code) Manifold for £450 and porting it myself but the Badger5 version is awesome! Already ported and cheaper to boot.

Nice work Bill
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not offended at all. I am well aware of jbs's issues' I told them about them... repeatedly years ago when I found the misfire issue. I told them. Not the only one either for others who subsequently suffered the same misfire on cyl #2 on the as cast/supplied unit.

The misfire you may have read may well have been from me posting about it back at the time.

The casting is indeed from the same foudry in CN, and why its nicknamed "chinafold" by those of us now using it. Heavily modifying it however to allow it to fullfill its purpose.

They are I think a good option, I know the castings are ****** hard material, and doug has had the material tested confirming its 304stainless.. Its effing hard to machine we know that much. lol. Many tips consumed when cnc machining them, and me hand porting them post cnc. hence lots of carbide cutters purchased to cope with these, lol

Runners are'n too bad, but the collector area was laughable... Now fixed. :)

Forget jb04, Dan @ Beachbuggy is making some very nice spec hybrids, which the likes of which is what the lupo made 372bhp.. a previously unheard of power output from a k04 hybrid.. Back in 2010, they struggled to break past 300bhp.... now look what we can persuade them to without needing silly boost to achieve it.
 
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Yeah I read the old threads were they tried to blame the misfire on the tune until the guys stateside found the same issue when pushing over 320hp.

It would be interesting to see what this would do with a ported ATP S3/TT GT2871r eliminator turbo.

I think its a great option all round, even most of the available cheap t3 manifolds are renowned for cracking.

Keep pushing that envelope
 
Bills work on this has been epic! I think on mine, the restriction is partly down to the relentless cat! I could of seen little more with decat and a functioning VVT! Loved to get it dyno'd with them on
 
antwan64og said:
Yeah I read the old threads were they tried to blame the misfire on the tune until the guys stateside found the same issue when pushing over 320hp.

It would be interesting to see what this would do with a ported ATP S3/TT GT2871r eliminator turbo.

I think its a great option all round, even most of the available cheap t3 manifolds are renowned for cracking.

Keep pushing that envelope
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the threshold was way lower than that..
I had two cars here 2-3 years ago, one of which was one of their own test customer cars!
all misfire on cyl #2 after 5krpm..
Denial is all anyone got...

Reality proved otherwise of course
 
Andrew@A.L.D said:
I would say that the envolope will be on its limit very soon due to the limits to what you can fit inside the K04 and manifold design.
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yep.

one more trick top try when I get time.

Remember lupos motor is only a smallport, bog std aum golf engine... just rods in it.
largerports would support this better I think based on what I saw the lupo react to during mapping
 
Loving this thread.

My current XS mani has a hairline crack plus the turbo has no support bracket a it didn't line up. One of these manis will be its replacement when it finally dies. Also be nice to see what effects it has on a stock K04.
 
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What power levels would you map a customers car to with this set up tuen bill? For you to he happy it leaving safe.
 
Westy said:
Loving this thread.

My current XS mani has a hairline crack plus the turbo has no support bracket a it didn't line up. One of these manis will be its replacement when it finally dies. Also be nice to see what effects it has on a stock K04.
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This would be very interesting. So is a oem manifold a restriction at your levels westy?
 
badger5 said:
china old CR one on lupo currently.. Danes old reject one I reworked
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Bill we all no my hot side is the problem for my car not holding boost it won't make more than 21psi 1.4 bar
Spoke to rick other day and he had a customer in with another bbt hybrid and that wasn't china and could hold 2.0 bar so rick has told me to get and new hotside off dan port it and mani off u port that and off we go to better figures lol
 
s3gazz said:
Bill we all no my hot side is the problem for my car not holding boost it won't make more than 21psi 1.4 bar
Spoke to rick other day and he had a customer in with another bbt hybrid and that wasn't china and could hold 2.0 bar so rick has told me to get and new hotside off dan port it and mani off u port that and off we go to better figures lol
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Gaz .. Boost isn't the HOLLY GRAIL... As bill will say FLOW
 
s3gazz said:
Bill we all no my hot side is the problem for my car not holding boost it won't make more than 21psi 1.4 bar
Spoke to rick other day and he had a customer in with another bbt hybrid and that wasn't china and could hold 2.0 bar so rick has told me to get and new hotside off dan port it and mani off u port that and off we go to better figures lol
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your hot side sounds like the lupo one tho

kinda works stil tho
 
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What's important to remeber Gaz, is that boost is only a resistance to flow.

If an engine can flow more air, for a given amount of air comming out of the turbo, there will be less boost.

In theory, you could run the same turbo, at the same duty, and flow the same amount of air, on two different engines. One could be a small port with flow restrictions, and may see 21psi, the other could be a high flow optimised large port like yours, and the same volume of air might only create 18psi as it's getting through easier.

Boost isn't everything.
 
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audi upgrades
my ibiza only runs 12psi boost on low setting...
guess the power @ 12psi tho
;)

FLow... Flow its all about da flow innit.. Aiiiiiiiiiiiiii
 
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superkarl said:
I know what id rather have
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BOTH :p

lol

and bhp is a function of Torque AND rpm fella

sustain decent torque you make more power
blow high boost on early onset, you generate heat early in rpm and this will hurt the cyl temps and ability to sustain the torque as revs rise.

want high torque low and mid, buy a diesel.
 
I'd rather have power than torque ultimately. Torque is simply what you feel, that push in the back. Power is what actually makes the car silly fast.

worth noting: my view point is based entirely on going as fast as possible on a track, I couldn't give a **** about 'real world road use' :laugh:

I use a diesel for that :racer:
 
Okies.. Reviewing the overall costs of these, and consummables in machining them @ CNC shop and post CNC here... There will be a small increase in sales price on any manifolds not already ordered.

Price will be £312+vat going forward

Price includes, High flow K04 exhaust manifold, Exhaust manifold gasket to head, turbo to manifold gasket, stainless steel turbo to manifold bolts, and nordlock washers.

UK Delivery is £10.70

thanks
 
badger5 said:
my ibiza only runs 12psi boost on low setting...
guess the power @ 12psi tho
;)

FLow... Flow its all about da flow innit.. Aiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Click to expand...

283? :) floww ridaaaaa (dunno where that came from!) apparently, my back box glows when I'm going flat out! Milltek not flowing so well!
 
Thx guys well this hot side just ain't right in my eyes and ricks lol compared to other s3 s he's mapped that don't have china hot sides lol.

It is all about the flow for shore but I would say my car is running low torque to me and boost high earlier on in the rpm range the biggest mountain iv seen on a map Graph lol.
 
Wow some fantastic results from a Ko4 turbo :)

I am currently looking at my tuning options and have a couple of questions. I see the lupo made 372bhp but it sounds like this was runnning pretty much to the limit of the hardware (?), what sort of BHP would you expect to map this set up to for day to day use? I also saw the discussion on using a large port head, do you think this will unkock a little more?
 
Simplicity said:
Wow some fantastic results from a Ko4 turbo :)

I am currently looking at my tuning options and have a couple of questions. I see the lupo made 372bhp but it sounds like this was runnning pretty much to the limit of the hardware (?), what sort of BHP would you expect to map this set up to for day to day use? I also saw the discussion on using a large port head, do you think this will unkock a little more?
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Not limit of hardware no..
limit of the smallport and the large amount of ign adv I was running yea..

Having run an LCR (stroker + largeport) much harder on near identical turbo, but on a relentless v3 and got much more power & torque but stupid high egts vs lupos relatively low 855's, I would say there's more in there...

largeport will help the top end power at the expense of some low end torque loss is my gut feel.

swings - and - roundabouts

egts to me suggest there's more in it.. I am only pushing it to 1.4-1.5bar currently
 
It'll be interesting to see what s3gazz gets for results.

He's not only got a large port head but its also ported and polished. His VE should be quite abit higher than the lupo so should make a funk Morse power once his choked torque is freed up
 
antwan64og said:
It'll be interesting to see what s3gazz gets for results.

He's not only got a large port head but its also ported and polished. His VE should be quite abit higher than the lupo so should make a funk Morse power once his choked torque is freed up
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only going to be comparible if it ever runs on a dyno which we can reference against... aka mine or nikis
 
Bill, just curious but would you expect the manifold to produce more HP than ft lbs on a stock ko4 turbo?

I was looking at a few dynos of the jbs ko3 manifold and they all produced more HP than ft lbs which you don't see with the stock manifold. BUT these were all different hybrid ko3 so its hard to tell if its the combination of turbine and compressor pushing the power up the rpm band or if its manifold design
 
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