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Audi (the rest ) and Brexit

holly35 Feb 16, 2019

?

Would you pay an additional EU Brexit tax on German cars?

  1. Yes i would be happy to line EU pockets for the privilege

    21 vote(s)
    55.3%
  2. No i would buy from another country outside the EU

    17 vote(s)
    44.7%
  1. holly35

    holly35 Active Member

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    Ok how many of us would be willing to pay an additional brexit tax for the pleasure of owning EU cars?
    My view? i would drop Audi (and the rest ) in a heart beat any buy elsewhere. Probably Japanese.No way would i fund extra if it came to this.
     
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  3. maui

    maui Active Member TFSI Owners Group S-line owners group saloon Audi A4

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    IMHO - The entire UK car market has been going down the pan since the introduction of the new car tax regs, then accelerated with WLTP - and they seemingly keep wanting to blame it on the VAG emissions scandal.

    So as a private car buyer, any sense of frugality will mean you want to stay away from the magic £40k VED hike, which strangely affects the 'cleaner' options of hybrids / zero emission cars more as they typically sit in that bracket, so it's natural to want to buy an older car which pre-dates the tax reg changes, or just lease?

    As a company car owner, they are now being shafted by the new EU emissions testing program, and the fact that BIK rates are still reliant on 'back-porting' the new WLTP emissions outputs to the old CO2 based standards, miserably at that. That or the emissions scandal ends up absolutely jacking the BIK rate of cars up. Therefore, be it VAG with their emissions scandal, or WLTP, it looks like I am going to be shafted either way when it comes to replacing my car towards the end of the year. Not helped again by a 3% hike in company car tax across the board this year :(

    Example:
    My current MY17 A4 2.0 TFSI has a CO2 emissions of 119g/km - putting it into a 27% BIK rate from April 2019.
    The 2019 A4 40 TFSI (same output / torque) having 137g/km - or 31% as a BIK rate - again from April 2019.

    That difference in the emissions alone equates to an extra ~£550 pa at a 40% tax rate payer, or £45.82 pm for a bog standard A4 S-Line 40 TFSI Saloon. Might seem small, but frustrating that the driver ends up paying the price for the emissions farce / WLTP if you go purely like-for-like when replacing.
    I get that it's to push people towards cleaner vehicles. But if Audi are introducing things like mild hybrid technology, how comes the emissions are so much worse when 'apparently' it was only Diesels affected by the scandal?

    It's going to be a lot of sums and looking around come the time I start looking to replace. I'm probably either going to be footing a much higher bill or preferably look to other places like Japanese (where you get more for your £) like @holly35 says.

    The Audi refinement is quite like nothing else I've experienced to date, but my wallet will have to come first and could mean jumping to the likes of Lexus to get that balance of tax vs. functionality.
     
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  4. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member

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    As long as prices don't go mad I'll stick with it.

    TX.

    Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk
     
  5. holly35

    holly35 Active Member

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  6. Nick_B

    Nick_B Active Member

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    I guess in the worst 'no deal' scenario we could well see our 'British build' Hondas, Nissans and Toyotas moving away as we generally become less competitive with the 'friction free' movement of components ending.

    That being the case I would expect these British built Japanese cars would have the same import tariffs as those made in Munich, Ingolstadt and Stuttgart. To make matters worse we will loose our EU negotiated FTA's with much of the far East.
     
  7. Nick_B

    Nick_B Active Member

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    Yes - as a company car driver I have definitely felt the pain. My Audi when ordered was 109 g/km - now under WLTP it is 120 (a couple of BIK bands higher)......
     
  8. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member TFSI Owners Group S-line owners group saloon Audi A4

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    This, aside from jumping into a jap car, never...
     
  9. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member TFSI Owners Group S-line owners group saloon Audi A4

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    It is absurd when my car costs £30 a year to tax, but my partner's 1.0l fiesta is £140. As car owners we are becoming just cash cows for the tory government...
     
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  10. And1

    And1 Member

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    I have already decided this is my last vag group vehicle a hyundai or kia or even a Japanese next.
     
  11. holly35

    holly35 Active Member

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    Me too.
     
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  13. cosmicblue

    cosmicblue Well-Known Member Audi RSQ3 5 Cylinder

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    Leaving the Audi brand is fine - I've done it a couple of times and the truth is that the competition just isn't that good. Sure Kia and all the other brands aren't totally bad by any means but you'll find the tactile build quality/feels like it will last for ever (and it does) together with the in car tech just isn't as polished as Audi are capable of. Audi cars feel different, the competition just doesn't have the same feel.
     
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  14. holly35

    holly35 Active Member

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    After 4 Audis its time for me to change brands.The familiarity with fittings and materials over the years has become too much.Im looking for a different look to materials and switch gear.Overall ive enjoyed my Audis ,However service and customer care have not really been anything special apart from being offered gallons of coffee in nice surroundings.Ive found that there is still the "were doing you a favour" mentality among some staff which with a 26% drop in sales (according to Autoexpress) needs to have a reality check sharpish .The "these sell themselves" approach is no longer the case.
    Im prepared to drop the touch screen interior for a traditional style, make some minor tech sacrifices which i can live without.
    Ive really been smitten with the Mazda CX5.Beautifully built,lovely interior with a soft touch stitched leather dash and upper door trims.Ive compared it with my A4 and i actually prefer its tactile feel and its actually more attractive, superb to drive, very ,very attractive exterior and far more exclusive than the Audi and finally its remarkable value for money with a much higher standard spec.
    Plus all Mazdas are built in one location Japan.Unlike Audi,in Spain,Germany,Hungary etc There is now no difference in build quality between Audi and VW. None of todays Audis are as well built or have as tactile interiors of the old ones,my old b6 is a grade above the b9.They like other "quality" brands have dropped quality while the competition have raised theirs. I would urge anyone to visit Mazda and have a look at their 6 saloon and CX5 suv.Thats coming from a German car owner for 30 years.
    CX-5_InPage-Highlights-964x424_img8_RHD.jpg 2019-mazda6-turbo-fwd-review9220-640x640.jpg new-2019-mazda-6-new-interior-1024x731.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
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  15. RAF_S7

    RAF_S7 Well-Known Member Team V8 Gold Supporter Team Sepang Audi S7 A7 Owner Group Black Edition

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    I’ll buy the car that I want, at a price that I can afford, regardless of origin.

    Politics don’t enter into my car buying decisions :racer:
     
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  16. And1

    And1 Member

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    Totally agree both the mazda 6 and cx5 are excellent and both have received recent upgrades
     
  17. Evil Derboy

    Evil Derboy Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi RS5 Owners Group

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    Your poll questions are a bit biased in their wording. We already pay a premium to buy German cars so it really depends on how much more of a premium we’re all comfortable with.
     
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  18. And1

    And1 Member

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    If you take the new A1 or Q2 they both have hard plastic interior trim not what you expect for the brand or price. If Renault can put a soft touch interior in the new clio due summer 19 why did audi choose to make there's look/feel cheap
     
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  19. cosmicblue

    cosmicblue Well-Known Member Audi RSQ3 5 Cylinder

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    Customers vote with their feet - as you have decided And1, you see few Q2 vehicles on the road (not helped by pricing it close to Q3) and the new A1...I think I've seen one on the road. Go Japanese/SE Asian and be happy - I've owned multiple Honda cars over the years, all good. You will get stung with depreciation, worse even than the Audi ownership experience and second hand there just isn't the desirability in many of the brands. For many it's just a utility object, a necessary evil - like owning a washing machine.

    Rightly or wrongly people desire to own an Audi it's a premier brand, globally recognised as engineering excellence. People lie in bed at night dreaming of owning an Audi - do people do the same over owning a Mazda CX5 or a Kia Sportage? The Mazda and Kia are both good cars, will get the job done equally well but just don't have that special something.

    Brand awareness/desirability is powerful. Many people think anything with the Apple logo is the absolute peak of desirability despite most of it being yesterday's technology at tomorrow's money in a constant catch up with the industries leading innovators - travel through any airport in Western Europe and it looks like 90% of the travellers use Apple products. Does it mean the products are better? Maybe/maybe not but the power of the brand is beyond doubt.
     
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  20. SMI77

    SMI77 Australia Audi S4 quattro Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Not correct. Mazda have factories in US, China, Malaysia, Mexico, Thailand, Vietnam and other countries. Have had 3 incl rotary. Mazdas are a major selling brand in Oz and are renowned for their quality, finish, well specced, reliability & durability. Also a lot cheaper than an Audi.
     
  21. holly35

    holly35 Active Member

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    I dont think is is biased,your are lining the EUs pockets as this is purely an extra tax.Your getting nothing in return whats so ever.
     
  22. holly35

    holly35 Active Member

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    I would also broadly agree with this,however the brand is a lot more accessible to many people today and no where near as "exclusive".Audis are everywhere.The Mazda brand is tiny compared to VAG group and the CX5 for example far scarcer than the Q3 . I do think the exclusive Audi image has been diluted with the volume you see on the roads.The German brands are all good at creating an "image"but nothing outstanding in some areas.
    However im not running down Audi,ive had them for 11 years,its just my perception of whats good and what i need in a car has changed.Also the Brexit situation has actually put me off EU cars in general.
    Regarding depreciation,im not so sure.....Take your 40k 2 year old medium spec A4 tdi in for a trade in price and boy are you in for a shock.......written off first is the 6k of extras you bought ,thats even before the depreciation is added...................
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
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  23. holly35

    holly35 Active Member

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    Actually were both wrong, however most are still made in Japan. Some in the US.Nothing in China,Malaysia,Mexico,Thailand Vietnam or other countries.

    While the bulk of production for Mazda product lines are still handled by Mazda's Japanese assembly plants, several popular lines such as the Mazda 6 are currently built in Flat Rock Michigan. Production at these American facilities benefits both Ford and Mazda as several Ford product lines take advantage of the superb chassis and platform design used in the Mazda 6.While the bulk of production for Mazda product lines are still handled by Mazda's Japanese assembly plants, several popular lines such as the Mazda 6 are currently built in Flat Rock Michigan. Production at these American facilities benefits both Ford and Mazda as several Ford product lines take advantage of the superb chassis and platform design used in the Mazda 6.
    At the present, Mazda operates three manufacturing facilities in Japan, with two located in Hiroshima, Japan, and another in Hofu, Japan. In addition to their Japanese manufacturing facilities, several North American models are produced in varying quantities at the Auto Alliance international facility located in Flat Rock, Michigan, and the Kansas city assembly plant in Claycomo, Missouri.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  24. And1

    And1 Member

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    The cx5 is built in Malaysia and China for there markets. If you buy in Thailand it's a Malaysian built cx5 Wikipedia says
     
  25. SMI77

    SMI77 Australia Audi S4 quattro Audi Avant Owner Group

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  26. WarwickBoy

    WarwickBoy Member

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    I have also voted with the majority, and would also pay extra for an Audi. As this is a forum focused on Audi I think it is no surprise that the majority would also pay extra. Audi make brilliant cars, and my preference - the S4 Avant - has very few competitors I would consider.

    I also agree with the poster who stated that the question is biased:
    "Yes i would be happy to line EU pockets for the privilege"

    Let's be clear that if we do leave the EU with no deal, then the UK is taking an active choice to adopt a WTO tariff (not tax) arrangement, and in no way being taxed by the EU.

    It does look as if, with the latest news from Honda, that Brexit is a key factor in the decision of many manufactures to move production out of the UK. According to Sky, Brexit is understood to be one factor in the Honda decision, with the carmaker concerned about the imposition of new tariffs after the UK leaves the EU. Rival Japanese carmaker Nissan also cited Brexit as one reason for cancelling plans to build its X-Trail SUV in Sunderland earlier this month. And Toyota and Jaguar Land Rover have expressed concern about the risk of a potential no-deal Brexit in recent months. Last week, Ford warned that a leaving the EU without a deal would be "catastrophic".

    So, it may not be right to assume that Japanese car imports to the UK will not be subject to tariffs if we leave with no deal. As this article explains "The EU and Japan recently struck a trade deal which lowers tariffs on both parties' car exports to zero." If the UK does move outside the EU it will be subject to different tariffs to EU counties, and Japanese cars imported from Japan to the UK will be subject to tariffs not applicable to the EU.

    Overall - our tiny poll suggests - I don't think UK consumers will change their stance on car buying based on this. For years UK consumers have bought the cars they want with little to no national focus, whereas in France I think there is more nationalistic buying of local brands.

    Unfortunately I think any form of Brexit will hurt UK car manufacturing compared to the status quo. Very much oping there are other benefits to Brexit to offset this, but I can't see these but hopefully time will prove me wrong :)

    [1] Honda set to Close Swindon Car Plant
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47282603
     
  27. A4B9

    A4B9 Active Member Team Moonlight saloon TDi quattro Audi A4

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    It’s not just uk car manufacturing industry that will be hurt by Brexit, it’s the country as a whole that will be hurt.

    We were the sick man of Europe before we joined the EU and we will be that once more when the right and left wing extremists in both major parties lead us over the cliff edge next month.
     
  28. A4B9

    A4B9 Active Member Team Moonlight saloon TDi quattro Audi A4

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    Except that’s a lie. You Brextremists love nothing more than telling lies
     
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  29. holly35

    holly35 Active Member

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    The sick man of Europe,really.Funny how we are on of the biggest contributors to the EU, who have more members in financial need than who can actually contribute.Germany close to recession,France Spain and Italy not much better and a pile of poorer countries that cant really flex much financial clout.Junker wants the cash you can see it in his eyes.

    In your opinion.
    A deal is fine as long as EU has no further financial hold on the UK.
    Also Honda are not pulling out because of Brexit,everything is blamed on this .A major cause is the UK Gov scare mongering over diesel,affecting all diesel owners .Thats why anyone with diesel power will get hammered when they trade.
     
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  30. holly35

    holly35 Active Member

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    Really? I would have said Audis are now pretty mass market ,certainly where i live they are very common sight.Ive never had a dream about owning an Audi ... they are nice definatley but i just dont see the exclusiveness worth dreaming about.
     
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  31. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member

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    Dry your eyes mate.

    TX.
     
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  32. holly35

    holly35 Active Member

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    The polls looking interesting.......
     
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  34. A4B9

    A4B9 Active Member Team Moonlight saloon TDi quattro Audi A4

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    You keep swallowing the lies the tabloids keep feeding you.

    You mention diesel but the Honda plant produces nearly no diesel cars, something like 6% of the cars that roll off their production line are diesel.

    You only need to read between the lines as to why they are closing and it is because of Brexit even if they won’t admit it, Japan has signed a FTA with the EU which means by the time we get to 2022 when the factory shuts down there will be 0% import tariffs on cars built in Japan, so why would Honda keep making Civics in the UK when any of those cars sold in mainland Europe will attract tariffs if we crash out with no deal?

    Yeah let’s see you say that when there’s a shortage of medicines and a loved one dies as a result or if jobs are lost because of no deal.
     
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  35. SMI77

    SMI77 Australia Audi S4 quattro Audi Avant Owner Group

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    This may assist in clarifying, but don't stop after the first para:-
    https://www.goauto.com.au/news/honda/honda-closes-uk-plant/2019-02-20/77704.html
     
  36. SMI77

    SMI77 Australia Audi S4 quattro Audi Avant Owner Group

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    This may assist in clarifying, but don't stop after the first para:-
    https://www.goauto.com.au/news/honda/honda-closes-uk-plant/2019-02-20/77704.html
     
  37. Daggerit

    Daggerit Well-Known Member Team Floret Silver TFSI Owners Group Team V6 Audi S4 quattro Audi Avant Owner Group

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    I've already seen the medicine impact first hand. Had to get some eye drops for a fairly serious infection and they were delayed in coming into the UK as a result of some issues related to the Brexit faff. No chemists in a 20 mile range had them so I had to go to the hospital to specifically get them... And that's just eye drops!
     
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  38. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member

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    For @A4B9

    "You have to consider the decline in demand for diesel too: Honda’s Swindon engine plant produced diesel engines. Then there’s the ever-growing rise in popularity of SUVs, which is harming sales of traditional cars such as the Civic – the only model made in Swindon.

    And you can’t ignore global trade, such as Donald Trump’s threat to impose huge tariffs on cars imported from Europe into the US – such as the Civic. At the same time, the European Union and Japan recently agreed a trade deal that effectively removes tariffs on Japanese-built cars imported into Europe. That reduces Honda’s need to have a European manufacturing base [negotiations started in 2013 before you blame brexit for that too].

    There’s also Honda itself. The firm continues to struggle in Europe, with sales markedly down on a decade ago. Last year it sold just under 135,000 cars in the European market, a three per cent decline on 2017 – and around half its sales of a decade ago.

    As a result, it has increasingly focused production in its home country in Japan, at the expense of factories elsewhere. The Swindon factory produced around 160,000 Civic models last year, but at its peak ten years ago its output was around 250,000. This is the latest in a pattern of decline.

    All those factors – and more – will have played a role in Honda’s decision. So while it’s important the UK car industry takes every lesson from this latest blow, it’s important to remember this news reflects the wider struggles of the global car industry."

    Yeah totally brexit ...

    TX.

    Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk
     
  39. Jcbmally

    Jcbmally Started with nothing & still have most of it left. X3 M-Sport Glacier Silver

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    So who is wrong regarding the Brexit debate ? The people we vote in are split, some say doom and gloom, some say better out, the public is split. At the end of the day no-one knows exactly what is going to happen, not even the EU politicians. The country voted and the leavers won, deal/no deal either way I for one will be happier when it will all be over. Regarding my next car purchase, it will be based on 3 things regardless of what happens.
    • Do I like it.
    • Can I afford it.
    • Do I want it.
    Simples.
     
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  40. A4B9

    A4B9 Active Member Team Moonlight saloon TDi quattro Audi A4

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    I’m diabetic and I’ve been stockpiling insulin because I have no confidence that when we crash out supplies will be unaffected. My wellbeing is on the line.

    You can quote articles from Brexit supporting news outlets all day long mate, fact of the matter is if we have no deal, which is exactly what’s going to happen, any cars built in the UK will attract tariffs in the EU and any other countries we have no trade deals with so why would Honda keep making cars here when they can shift production to Japan to avoid said tariffs?

    And the same will happen with Nissan in Sunderland sooner rather than later

    The Japanese ambassador has said countless times that if Brexit makes it unprofitable for Japanese firms to operate in the UK they’ll go elsewhere
     
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  41. DaveW

    DaveW Well-Known Member Team Floret Silver S-line owners group Audi A6 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Ditto, I've got a drawer in the fridge full of it just in case...
     
  42. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member

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    Open your eyes, every negative thing that happens is not down to brexit. **** still happened before 2016.

    TX.

    Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk
     
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  43. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member TFSI Owners Group S-line owners group saloon Audi A4

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    Yes caused by the tories when they first deregulated the banks in the mid 80's. https://www.cashfloat.co.uk/blog/money-borrowing/uk-banking-deregulation/ They have an uncanny knack of ruining our economy, think back to the 1990's when interest rates peaked at 15%. Now we are at risk of heading in that direction again.
    Look at the millions the preparation for the exit has cost this country already. Anyone with half a brain will realise that the cost to this country is enormous and the farmers, the fishermen, immigration and the NHS will all suffer, well the NHS always suffers under a tory government anyway...
     
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