Audi S4 ( B6) Will not Start but cranks...Advice Needed...

[Mark Cleland]

Afternoon all,

New to the forum and frankly i have to say ...i`m stuck..
Short version ( Yes really!)

My 2004 S4 has been stood over winter due to it not starting, i am now turning my attention to trying to locate the issue.

The vehicle has for a few years suffered from intermittent starting issues. Firstly it seemed to be when the engine was hot then gradually developed into a full blown hot / cold start.

Gradually things got worse until, you guessed it, it wouldn't start.

It will turn over sounding fine, there is no EML on.

CANT hear fuel pump prime but CAN get fuel out of pipes at engine at a decent rate when cranking.

Decent amount of fuel and replaced fuel pump relay. At present i cant even get it to start once.

My thoughts are at the moment its a fuel pump or crank sensor but cant work out what, also due to location of car its pretty hard to work on or move without its own power.

I have just bought one of those cheap VAG code readers off ebay and it seems ( theres about 20 codes coming up!!!) that if i am reading them right that there is no fault code stored for crank sensor so im now wondering if the pump / sensor are actually the issue.

What does keep coming up is SAI pump and or SAI pump relay although i cant see that this is the cause - rather its an effect.

Sorry for the ramble but can any one give me any pointers?

Ta, Mark

 

[Mark Cleland]

codes - showing on cheapo reader ( forgive me if these need to be converted)

16666 / 16660 / 17980 / 16441 / 17833 / 16421 / 16645 / 16648 / 16663 / 16654 / 16657 / 17522 / 17984 / 17843 / 16651 / 17829 / 18010

 

[pauldazzle]

You'll find the codes here. http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

 

[H5NND]

I would say crank sensor,

 

[Mark Cleland]

I would say crank sensor,

I`ve checked the fault codes now and they all relate to low voltage etc on cylinders and nothing relating to crank sensor so i am wondering ( although it is good) if i should for a start replace my battery.

Surely that would eliminate the low voltage errors?

 

[H5NND]

T
wow, I was away to say check coil packs and plugs, but if its saying cylinders I would get it checked out, it may not be them tbh.

I have had this before on BMWs and can sometimes be coil packs, plugs, ccv, the list is endless but start with the easy stuff, do you have a good reader that gives live data, this will help.

on the other hand I have had bad cylinders due to hydralic lifters a very common issues with some cars dont know about the b6, sounds like coil packs or plugs bud.

 

[Darran]

If the battery went flat and u didn't charge it fully before cranking it will throw all those faults, audis dont like low battery power.

Get someone with vcds to scan it.

 

[H5NND]

my money is with the coil packs or plugs, if you have a reader that has live data, buy one coil pack and change it out for one of the bad cylinders, if this cure the low voltage on one try then changing the one new with the rest, if you think its the battery and you have decent software then it should tell you the voltage of the battery.

low battery could affect the coil packs as well as sensors, fuel pump etc so yeah get the battery tested.

 

[dplovin]

be reading misfire if it was coils, i have vagcom if your in the cheshire area them cheap vag readers don't pick up everything.

 

[Darran]

Ross-Tech don't list most of those faults and im struggling to find some of them anywhere?

 

[Darran]

You,ve put to many digits in or the reader has.
18074/P1666 - Valve for Pump - Jet: Cylinder 1 (N240): Electrical Malfunction
1666 coolant fan issue.
1798
Coolant Temperature Circuit Malfunction
16441 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B2 S2: Heating Circuit: Short to Ground
17833 - EVAP Purge Valve(N80): Short to Ground
16421 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S2: Heating Circuit: Short to GroundP0037 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded
16645 - fuel injector#1 short to ground
16648 - fuel injector#2 short to ground
16663P0279Cylinder 7 Injector Circuit Low Input/Short to ground
16654P0270Cylinder 4 Injector Circuit Low Input/Short to ground
16657P0273Cylinder 5 Injector Circuit Low Input/Short to ground
17522P1114Bank1-Sensor2 Internal Resistant too High
17984P1576Right Engine Mount Solenoid Valve Short to ground
17843P1435Secondary Air Injection System Pump Relay Circuit Short to ground
16651P0267Cylinder 3 Injector Circuit Low Input/Short to ground
17829P1421Secondary Air Injection Valve Circuit Short to Ground
18010P1602Power Supply (B+) Terminal 30 Low Voltage

 

[Darran]

Looks to me like you have a serious engine loom short, the last one is about the only one that relates to your battery power.

Explains why it died a slow death, you made it suffer slowly.

 

[Darran]

Only number 6&8 are trying to fire, poor thing!

 

[H5NND]

there you go bud, forum member has decoded for you

 

[Mark Cleland]

Update

Coils were replaced at main dealer under the warranty recall a few years back - all 8.
New battery in today and some of the low voltage on cylinders messages have changed to open circuit messages ( codes 16585 to 16592 now appear )

Car cranks over and over - will not start.

Checked again for fuel and there is NO fuel at engine pipes - so when i got it previously it must have been residual fuel. No fuel pump priming - however i honestly think its more like a loom issue?

Car has previously had a loom repair - dont know any more and i have an auto elec coming to see it tomorrow....

Thanks for all the replies and appreciate any more info !

 

[Mark Cleland]

can i be really cheeky and post up the new fault codes maybe a pro can give me a second opinion - be intrested to see the pre new battery and post new battery deviations?

 

[Darran]

Post away.

 

[Mark Cleland]

here goes - tried to "decode the codes"


16585 P0201 Injector 1-N30: a failure in the electrical circuit
16586 P0202 Injector 2-N31: a failure in the electrical circuit
16587 P0203 Injector 3-N32: a failure in the electrical circuit
16588 P0204 Injector 4-N33: a failure in the electrical circuit
16589 P0205 Injector 5-N83: a failure in the electrical circuit
16590 P0206 Injector 6-N84, a failure in the electrical circuit
16591 P0207 Injector 7-N85: a failure in the electrical circuit
16592 P0208 Injector 8-N86: a failure in the electrical circuit
17981 - Left Engine Mount Solenoid Valve (N144): Open Circuit
17985 -Right Engine MountSolenoidValve (N145): Open Circuit
16440 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B2 S2: Heating Circuit: Malfunction (Open Circuit?)
17522 - oxygen (lombda) Sensor: B1 S2: Internal Resistance too high P1114 - 35-10 - - - .
19475 P3019 Valve for Exhaust Flap 1 (N321), Open Circuit
17834/P1426/005158 - EVAP Purge Valve (N80): Open Circuit
17841/P1433/005171 - Secondary Air Pump Relay (J299): Open Circuit
17840/P1432/005170 - Secondary Air Injection Solenoid Valve (N112): Open Circuit
16420/P0036/000054 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S2: Heating Circuit: Malfunction / Open Circuit
00532 - Supply Voltage B+: Signal too Low
18265/P1857/006231 - Load Signal: Error Message from ECU
18259power train data bus: Missing message from ABS controller
18265/P1857/006231 - Load Signal: Error Message from ECU

 

[Darran]

I would unplug the engine loom and test each wire for continuity bit of a long job but at least it will keep you away from those porn sites for a few hours ! ,

 

[Mark Cleland]

Bit out my depth Darren - not a lecy guru....Oil & engines for me.

My hunch - obviously is it is a loom issue - even though i cant hear fuel pump prime and i am not getting fuel at engine i suspect a loom or electrical issue is prohibiting this.

No fault codes for crank sensor either so theres no point doing that....

Anyone concur ?

and as for porn sites - you do know you can get it on a tablet whilst whilst under a bonnet at the same time

 

[Darran]

where are you

 

[Mark Cleland]

Scotland mate - Lanarkshire. Its grim up North and theres also a lack of expertise!

Some good indies up here but they need the car to them and thats a last resort getting it uplifted.

 

[frankc]

Wow, that's a lot of electrical errors. I assume you've checked the usual B6 points for water ingress - plenum chamber(battery tray area bulkhead), ECU box (have been known to leak and have a bunch of relays under the ECU) and fan intake housing (usually results in wet passenger side carpet and interior electrical errors).

Good luck sorting it out. Frank.

 

[Mark Cleland]

Frank...not persay checked everything you mention but...

Car is ( apart from the starting issue - spot on - everything works - so no electrical gremlins at all.

Footwells bone dry - just checked.

Battery area - when i fitted the new battery yesterday i had a good poke around and its bone dry.

Last point was the ecu - darkness beat me as i ended up wrestling with driver side wiper arm to get ecu box off - back to that one today.

I should add - anyone in Central Scotland with genuine VAGcom willing to assist i would be more than happy to maek you a brew, hell even bake a cake for you, and of course pay your travelling costs and send you on your way with a supply of your preferred Amber Nectar

 

[Mark Cleland]

So, we have a result, after 5 months of sitting its running - and sweet as a nut. I am so happy to have it running again ( daily driver alternates between a big old P38 and a transit connect for my business and was starting to go crazy missing the Quattros sheer pace!

The solution - replacement fuel pump relay - even though it had been replaced it seems replacement was bad!

So now its on to a wash, mega polish, clean of brakes and MOT ( which should be fine)

Thanks everyon for the help - think i`ll stick around and once shes spruced up i`ll get some pictures on

 

[rjm180]

Great news Mark. Pleased for you it's resolved. I'm sure there's a few of us been watching the thread but don't know enough to comment to help you. Glad it's all sorted now and the S4 is back on the road.

 

[Darran]

So all those faults were from the past hence the loom repair , wonder why the wouldn't clear, oh well not to worry , glad its sorted, have fun.