Audi S3 Stage 2/Stage 2+ Options

[HHS3]

Hello,

My S3 is currently stage 2 with the corresponding performance parts:

• Revo Stage 2 Software
• Revo CAI (Ceramic)
• Modified Stock Downpipe (Pre-Cat Removed)
• GFB DV+

I've got a Spec 2+ Clutch & Steel SMF ready to be fitted when needed, but I still need a BCS downpipe, Autotech HPFP Internals, RS4 FPRV, Mintex M1144's and then an R-Tech Custom Stage 2+ remap however I can't afford to have it all done, hence why I'm not stage 2+ yet..

I'm driving as part of a convoy for a stag do next year to the Nurburgring and so I want to have some more ponies under the bonnet, therefore I'm happy to use this as an excuse to the misses as to why I can afford to get some of the required parts.

As some of you will know, I've got an ongoing intermittent start-up problem of which datalogging is required to resolve this, however one last point of call is to replace the stock S3 HPFP which I can get for a great price (I was going to replace this anyway for when I get the Autotech HPFP Internals).

I'm getting the Mintex M1144's and the stock S3 HPFP fitted soon but I'm stuck on which of the following options to go for:

1. Autotech HPFP Internals, RS4 FPRV & Revo Stage 2+ Remap (£500-£600)
2. BCS Downpipe (£700-800)
3. R-Tech Custom Stage 2 Remap (£390)

I ideally want to go for option 1 but as I have a modified stock downpipe fitted which still has the horrible bend, standard cat and thin diameter throughout, then I know it'll be restricting air flow heavily meaning it will be at the lowest end of stage 2+ which I'm fine with.

APR offer stage 1+ which is stage 2+ but with the standard exhaust fitted of which people have said it's great and better then stage 2. I'm going to check with Revo but I don't think that they offer an equivalent to this.

The reason I'm concerned about using Revo stage 2+ software is that because it's a generic map, it would've been based on an S3 with some sort of aftermarket downpipe, being much less restrictive then mine and so I don't want to run the risk of damaging my S3 by running software which presumes I have all the fully up to spec hardware.

What do you think? Will I harm my S3 by running stage 2+ software as the exhaust gases can't escape quickly enough or will the engine be working too hard as it can't meet the parameters set in the software causing a dangerous rise in temps?

Cheers.

 

[leshkin]

Hello,

My S3 is currently stage 2 with the corresponding performance parts:

• Revo Stage 2 Software
• Revo CAI (Ceramic)
• Modified Stock Downpipe (Pre-Cat Removed)
• GFB DV+

I've got a Spec 2+ Clutch & Steel SMF ready to be fitted when needed, but I still need a BCS downpipe, Autotech HPFP Internals, RS4 FPRV, Mintex M1144's and then an R-Tech Custom Stage 2+ remap however I can't afford to have it all done, hence why I'm not stage 2+ yet..

I'm driving as part of a convoy for a stag do next year to the Nurburgring and so I want to have some more ponies under the bonnet, therefore I'm happy to use this as an excuse to the misses as to why I can afford to get some of the required parts.

As some of you will know, I've got an ongoing intermittent start-up problem of which datalogging is required to resolve this, however one last point of call is to replace the stock S3 HPFP which I can get for a great price (I was going to replace this anyway for when I get the Autotech HPFP Internals).

I'm getting the Mintex M1144's and the stock S3 HPFP fitted soon but I'm stuck on which of the following options to go for:

1. Autotech HPFP Internals, RS4 FPRV & Revo Stage 2+ Remap (£500-£600)
2. BCS Downpipe (£700-800)
3. R-Tech Custom Stage 2 Remap (£390)

I ideally want to go for option 1 but as I have a modified stock downpipe fitted which still has the horrible bend, standard cat and thin diameter throughout, then I know it'll be restricting air flow heavily meaning it will be at the lowest end of stage 2+ which I'm fine with.

APR offer stage 1+ which is stage 2+ but with the standard exhaust fitted of which people have said it's great and better then stage 2. I'm going to check with Revo but I don't think that they offer an equivalent to this.

The reason I'm concerned about using Revo stage 2+ software is that because it's a generic map, it would've been based on an S3 with some sort of aftermarket downpipe, being much less restrictive then mine and so I don't want to run the risk of damaging my S3 by running software which presumes I have all the fully up to spec hardware.

What do you think? Will I harm my S3 by running stage 2+ software as the exhaust gases can't escape quickly enough or will the engine be working too hard as it can't meet the parameters set in the software causing a dangerous rise in temps?

Cheers.

I'd keep the current setup, until you can get the Stg2+ hardware, then get RTech to map it all. You will effectively save a significant amount of cash by not mapping twice

If you want to upgrade something in the mean time, then get the pads... You'll need them at the ring, or even on the local roads.

 

[S.]

I'd keep the current setup, until you can get the Stg2+ hardware, then get RTech to map it all. You will effectively save a significant amount of cash by not mapping twice

If you want to upgrade something in the mean time, then get the pads... You'll need them at the ring, or even on the local roads.

+1.
Source the parts you want and fit them and map it when you get the whole lot.

 

[nluk100]

Why not fit another brand of downpipe for around £400 if you already have the revo st2 s/w? The downpipe is one of the most restrictive parts when tuning, it helps not only keep the exhaust gasses cooler (= more power) but also provides a ton more torque and brings the boost on noticeably earlier.

I ran your setup then swapped out just the downpipe (with std cat-back) and it was like having another remap!

 

[leshkin]

Probably because BCS is life!

 

[prt57]

From reading your posts, I think you like to get things done right so you have no concerns in the long run.

I think you need to get that down pipe sorted as just removing the precat is not the total solution with the sharp bend emailing and the cat which may be the 600 cell version. Not to mention the smaller diameter pipe work.
I took my son’s TTS for a BCS downpipe. It certainly felt quicker after the fitting and produced no lights on the dash. As you already have Revo Stage 2 that will have been coded out anyway.
Is it really that much to go to Revo 2+ from stage 2? Most upgrades are less than £200. I have APR and the go to 2+ from 1+ was free as I was having the APR downpipe. (A superb bit of kit that has become very expensive now). Normally the upgrade would have been £120.
You can always add the catback at a later date when funds allow. My car made 365 BHP and 379 ft lbs with just the APR downpipe joined to the standard catback.
The rest of the parts to get you to 2+ can be installed later on.
The R-Tech map will be tailored to your exact car and Nikki will get the best out of it.
As a comparison my S3 is at APR stage 2+ and my son’s TTS is at RTech 2+. Whilst this is only my opinion, the TTS is more brutal but you have to get it up to 4K revs then it really goes. The S3 seems less of an animal and there seems to be more pull from lower down the Rev range.
Difficult to put my finger on it but there is a difference.

 

[prt57]

Whoops, I meant to type remaining not emailing - need to check predictive text more carefully

 

[HHS3]

I'd keep the current setup, until you can get the Stg2+ hardware, then get RTech to map it all. You will effectively save a significant amount of cash by not mapping twice

If you want to upgrade something in the mean time, then get the pads... You'll need them at the ring, or even on the local roads.

+1.
Source the parts you want and fit them and map it when you get the whole lot.

The only problem with this is option, which is undoubtedly the sensible one (hence why I didn't list it ) is my patience, as it means waiting until the latter part of 2019 at best (due to other commitments) to get the full works and go all out for stage 2+ which is just too long away.. So that's why I want a little bit more power to keep me entertained until that time comes.

Upgrading to the Revo stage 2+ software will only cost £120 including labour, I'm getting a new stock S3 HPFP fitted and yesterday practically brand new Autotech HPFP Internals became available for £250 which I'm buying, regardless if I fit it soon or not. So all in it would cost £500 tops to go to a poor mans stage 2+ haha.

My concern is, would it have any detrimental effect on my S3 or is it purely just going to be restricted airflow meaning I'm not getting the most out of it?

Why not fit another brand of downpipe for around £400 if you already have the revo st2 s/w? The downpipe is one of the most restrictive parts when tuning, it helps not only keep the exhaust gasses cooler (= more power) but also provides a ton more torque and brings the boost on noticeably earlier.

I ran your setup then swapped out just the downpipe (with std cat-back) and it was like having another remap!

Probably because BCS is life!

Interesting to know that upgrading from a modified stock downpipe (with the pre-cat removed) to an aftermarket downpipe alone is that noticeable, but as leshkin says, BCS is the way and I eventually want the full Powervalve WRC TBE to go with it when the funds are available.

From reading your posts, I think you like to get things done right so you have no concerns in the long run.

I think you need to get that down pipe sorted as just removing the precat is not the total solution with the sharp bend emailing and the cat which may be the 600 cell version. Not to mention the smaller diameter pipe work.
I took my son’s TTS for a BCS downpipe. It certainly felt quicker after the fitting and produced no lights on the dash. As you already have Revo Stage 2 that will have been coded out anyway.
Is it really that much to go to Revo 2+ from stage 2? Most upgrades are less than £200. I have APR and the go to 2+ from 1+ was free as I was having the APR downpipe. (A superb bit of kit that has become very expensive now). Normally the upgrade would have been £120.
You can always add the catback at a later date when funds allow. My car made 365 BHP and 379 ft lbs with just the APR downpipe joined to the standard catback.
The rest of the parts to get you to 2+ can be installed later on.
The R-Tech map will be tailored to your exact car and Nikki will get the best out of it.
As a comparison my S3 is at APR stage 2+ and my son’s TTS is at RTech 2+. Whilst this is only my opinion, the TTS is more brutal but you have to get it up to 4K revs then it really goes. The S3 seems less of an animal and there seems to be more pull from lower down the Rev range.
Difficult to put my finger on it but there is a difference.

Thanks for the information, if I had done more research at the beginning then I would've definitely started off with R-Tech which is why I now always thoroughly research everything prior to purchase. Stage 1 and 2 Revo software has been fine as I'm happy with the drive ability and power delivery but I know that their stage 2+ software is seriously lacking nowadays.. The upgrade in map will cost £60 and then another £60 for labour for that, so the other £400 I put was for the Autotech HPFP Internals and RS4 FPRV.

 

[leshkin]

My concern is, would it have any detrimental effect on my S3 or is it purely just going to be restricted airflow meaning I'm not getting the most out of it?

I know what you mean. Thing is Stg2+ without supporting mods is asking for trouble. Without the downpipe, your exhaust won't handle the flow required at that level even if you can provide the fuel, so there is no cheap way of doing this unfortunately. Stock downpipe/cat is the biggest restriction for exhaust gas flow. Having it in place will cause the exhaust pressure from the turbo to build up together with temperatures and this absolutely will shorten the lifespan of your turbo. I would even doubt any tuner's experience/reliability if they would load a STG2+ map on without the hardware.

You could keep an eye on various FB tuning groups for BCS downpipes to become available. Obviously there are cheaper alternatives.

 

[HHS3]

I know what you mean. Thing is Stg2+ without supporting mods is asking for trouble. Without the downpipe, your exhaust won't handle the flow required at that level even if you can provide the fuel, so there is no cheap way of doing this unfortunately. Stock downpipe/cat is the biggest restriction for exhaust gas flow. Having it in place will cause the exhaust pressure from the turbo to build up together with temperatures and this absolutely will shorten the lifespan of your turbo. I would even doubt any tuner's experience/reliability if they would load a STG2+ map on without the hardware.

You could keep an eye on various FB tuning groups for BCS downpipes to become available. Obviously there are cheaper alternatives.

Thanks for confirming mate, thought it may be pushing my luck a little too much.. APR stage 1+ is with the standard exhaust in place, although mine is modified, so I'm going to speak to Revo to see if they do an equivalent map (guessing not as they haven't supported the 8P platform in years though).

 

[leshkin]

Thinking about your situation, I think the cheapest way to maximise your power without a massive up-front spend would be a custom map. This would maximise use of the existing hardware you currently have in a safe way. I've never been a fan of off-the-shelf maps for specific stage of hardware, mainly because they never account for individual car's specifics. Yes, you might get a bit more peak torque or peak power on a Revo or APR map, but they would not be as tailored to your hardware, like a good custom map would be and may not give you the nice mid-range power increases that would be the most noticeable change rather than those attention-grabbing peak numbers.

 

[Rayner_1704]

Just get a cheaper down pipe? End of the day at 300-370bhp an aftermarket down pipe is a down pipe. Get a custom one made and save your self £400+ to go towards another mod

 

[S.]

Best option is to speak to revo directly.
Since your exhaust now flows a bit better than oem one with precat removed i guess that adjustability of revo maps regarding boost timing and fueling might help suit your needs. If you're sensible with those variables it might work but you will be short on power from full stage2+ setup.

 

[HHS3]

Thinking about your situation, I think the cheapest way to maximise your power without a massive up-front spend would be a custom map. This would maximise use of the existing hardware you currently have in a safe way. I've never been a fan of off-the-shelf maps for specific stage of hardware, mainly because they never account for individual car's specifics. Yes, you might get a bit more peak torque or peak power on a Revo or APR map, but they would not be as tailored to your hardware, like a good custom map would be and may not give you the nice mid-range power increases that would be the most noticeable change rather than those attention-grabbing peak numbers.

I definitely agree with custom mapping being better then generic maps, it was due to my impatience and lack of knowledge at the time that I went with Revo, I had also heard of them before and wrongly assumed that they were the best after a quick search. An initial remap with R-Tech is £390 but subsequent maps are £240, so they do offer some discount if I went with option 3. Depending on how the conversation goes with Revo regarding stage 1+, then I may just do option 1 but use R-Tech instead which I know will be a couple hundred quid more expensive in the long but then at least both me and the car will be happy

Just get a cheaper down pipe? End of the day at 300-370bhp an aftermarket down pipe is a down pipe. Get a custom one made and save your self £400+ to go towards another mod

The only manufacturer I'd consider instead of BCS would be Pipewerx as the likes of Milltek are poorly made nowadays unfortunately. Pipewerx downpipes with sports cat are hard to come by and still cost around £500, so only £100 cheaper than BCS as my figure included the labour for fitment as well.

I'd be weary getting a custom downpipe made as unless they have a good example to work from and copy, then most have reported that their custom made downpipes did not perform as well compared to the likes of BCS.

Best option is to speak to revo directly.
Since your exhaust now flows a bit better than oem one with precat removed i guess that adjustability of revo maps regarding boost timing and fueling might help suit your needs. If you're sensible with those variables it might work but you will be short on power from full stage2+ setup.

I'm going to speak to Revo as well as the Revo dealership who mapped mine and see what they say as surely they can do something. Worst case I'm just going to get a custom R-Tech remap which will cost me more in the long run but they'll at least be able to tailor to my mods without harming the car.

 

[leshkin]

If you do go to RTech, you won't be disappointed. Niki is very good at what he does and knows how to get the most out of the tfsi engine better than anyone else in the country imo and do so safely. He'll also give you the time to explain all you want to know. I didn't feel rushed with him, like he had to run to the next job. There is a reason why they can be hard to get a booking with.... Always so busy.

 

[Rayner_1704]

Sp

I definitely agree with custom mapping being better then generic maps, it was due to my impatience and lack of knowledge at the time that I went with Revo, I had also heard of them before and wrongly assumed that they were the best after a quick search. An initial remap with R-Tech is £390 but subsequent maps are £240, so they do offer some discount if I went with option 3. Depending on how the conversation goes with Revo regarding stage 1+, then I may just do option 1 but use R-Tech instead which I know will be a couple hundred quid more expensive in the long but then at least both me and the car will be happy



The only manufacturer I'd consider instead of BCS would be Pipewerx as the likes of Milltek are poorly made nowadays unfortunately. Pipewerx downpipes with sports cat are hard to come by and still cost around £500, so only £100 cheaper than BCS as my figure included the labour for fitment as well.

I'd be weary getting a custom downpipe made as unless they have a good example to work from and copy, then most have reported that their custom made downpipes did not perform as well compared to the likes of BCS.



I'm going to speak to Revo as well as the Revo dealership who mapped mine and see what they say as surely they can do something. Worst case I'm just going to get a custom R-Tech remap which will cost me more in the long run but they'll at least be able to tailor to my mods without harming the car.

eaking performance wise at that kind of power it’s going to make near no noticeable difference in driving. Molten stay away I melted the sports car on drag strip and cat back weld failed twice

 

[Kaine19]

I have milltek downpipe with no issues but i have decided book in for full custom exhaust. Id say get parts first. Am in exact same situation apart from your already mapped and am not haha, so i feel your pain. I have sourced all the parts now apart from intercooler which i want.

Am also going to get injectors cleaned and inlets cleaned with the map at rtech. Plus dsg map so more pennies.

 

[paddy]

I think i need to do this soon. I currently have a revo stg1 and a VWR CAI so i need a exhaust and a HPFP to go to stg 2+
? Been looking at the the BSC at £1342 but web site is a bit vague as to what the difference is between a sport system and a prestige system. They also do a downpipe and 200 cat to link to the std system for £687 but would i just be going back for the rest of the system if i go that route.

 

[leshkin]

I think i need to do this soon. I currently have a revo stg1 and a VWR CAI so i need a exhaust and a HPFP to go to stg 2+
? Been looking at the the BSC at £1342 but web site is a bit vague as to what the difference is between a sport system and a prestige system. They also do a downpipe and 200 cat to link to the std system for £687 but would i just be going back for the rest of the system if i go that route.

Yeah, you need HPFP and a downpipe with a sport cat at least to get STG2+ power. If you need clarification on what BCS offer, just give them a call. Nige is very friendly and can walk you through the many options.

 

[prt57]

I think i need to do this soon. I currently have a revo stg1 and a VWR CAI so i need a exhaust and a HPFP to go to stg 2+
? Been looking at the the BSC at £1342 but web site is a bit vague as to what the difference is between a sport system and a prestige system. They also do a downpipe and 200 cat to link to the std system for £687 but would i just be going back for the rest of the system if i go that route.

I was at BCS for a chat last week and asked the same question. The non Powervalve exhausts come in the Sport version only now. No prestige.

 

[paddy]

Ah well that solves that one then

 

[paddy]

I wonder what the pros/cons are for BCS v Miltek in just a downpipe and cat ?

 

[paddy]

I answered that one myself, Miltek don't do a down pipe and cat that fits the std system. so the next question has to be how restrictive is the std cat back system ? Mines 6 years old nearly and now sounds really nice.
any recommendations for HPFP while i am at it ? I had a new follower and pump fitted not 2k ago

 

[leshkin]

I wonder what the pros/cons are for BCS v Miltek in just a downpipe and cat ?

Quality. Miltek quality has gone to s**t since the outsourced production to China. BCS is made in UK using high quality materials, plus unlike Miltek, full BCS system do not drone. Some complain that BCS PowerValve is too quiet off boost, but that's how it's designed to be. There are non-valve options for people wanting #racecar sounds

 

[leshkin]

I answered that one myself, Miltek don't do a down pipe and cat that fits the std system. so the next question has to be how restrictive is the std cat back system ? Mines 6 years old nearly and now sounds really nice.
any recommendations for HPFP while i am at it ? I had a new follower and pump fitted not 2k ago

You'll get maximum benefit from a full system as it's same size right to the end, whereas the standard portion of the system will have some restrictions... Nowhere near as bad as the stock downpipe and cat though.

There are many options for HPFP. The easiest, but more expensive is a full pump replacement from Loba, APR etc. You could get upgraded internals by VIS or Autotech. VIS seems to be the cheapest option currently and is used a lot by VW tfsi lot, but doing internals is best done by someone who knows how to do it properly as any contamination during the swap could cause fueling issues.

 

[paddy]

Thanks for that, really helpful.
I think given that i will just go to Stg2+ the BCS down pipe and cat will be enough, i can see if i was going further with bigger turbo, RS injectors , intercooler then the full system would be a must but as i just want driveability more than peak figures i will get the torque from a decent down pipe.
what i really don't want is the Drone on motorways. Happy to have a sporty exhaust but as i say over the last few years the std system has settled down to about 30% louder than it was at new anyway

 

[nluk100]

I ran an aftermarket downpipe mated to the std exhaust system for a few years, sounded OK, but the Milltek cat-back has given it a much deeper burble and if you go resonated you won't get any drone. You can mate the Milltek to the std cat back, you just need a reducer sleeve.