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Audi S3 EPB Stuck No Ignition Cant Release

James789 Dec 5, 2018

  1. James789

    James789 New Member

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    Hi Guys

    I have a Audi S3 8v which has had some damage done to the steering column and some of the wiring harness/loom is missing that connects to key barrel and steering wheel
    I need to get the car to a garage but cant move it because theres no ignition and cant release the electronic parking brake
    Can someone please help me, is there anyway I can ‘hot wire’ the ignition? (key position 2) or is there a way to release parking brake without ignition?

    The car was put in my garage as we managed to lock release the gearbox and put it in Neutral, but I made the mistake of pulling the handbrake up which now I cant release as I need ignition, everytime I pull it up the P lights up on dash but i cant release it as i cant get ignition on
    Im not asking advice on ‘hotwiring’ in terms of starting the car up, I just want the ignition on (dash lights, electronics, etc) So i can release the parking brake and push the car out of the garage so I can get it recovered to a workshop

    I believe theres a way of powering the motor behind the wheel but no idea on how to

    Ps, I cant do an insurance claim as the damage happened while the car was uninsured

    Pic of wires under steering wheel attached

    Please help

    Thanks




    D628F5EB-53B5-4237-AA6A-806EEC77A489.jpeg 1EDF3802-F17D-454E-9FD4-EC0A6B7CB60B.jpeg 02BC0CA8-DC7A-4149-899A-170FA2DA2495.jpeg
     
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  3. Sean6211

    Sean6211 Member

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    Sorry James, you will probably get similar response here as you did on the OzAudi forum. No one will want to openly post in a forum teaching someone how to hotwire an S3 even for ignition. In the UK, the theft of S3 is at an epidemic proportion and is a massive issue for many members on this forum.

    If you need to get the car out from the garage for recovery to a workshop, there are other ways. A tow truck driver will know exactly what to do with a jack and wheel dollies. Did you try contacting a reputable towing company first?
     
    Flying Scotsman likes this.
  4. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member Team Brill Red saloon Audi A3

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    I thought the same. If you are getting it professionally recovered they will know how to do it.
     
  5. A1DEYB

    A1DEYB Well-Known Member

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  6. traindweller

    traindweller Active Member Team Floret Silver Audi A3

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    Guys,
    Just my opinion which seems to be against the general view on this thread.
    He asked two questions in his original post, one about hot wiring and one about releasing the electronic brake. I am surprised about the hot wire reaction when the info regarding the wire colours is freely available on wicki and many other sites but there we go. Do we take the same view about someone asking for help on how to open up the jammed fuel cap, the locked doors or how to get the head units out all of which are potential criminal aides.

    Regarding the brakes are we not able to give some sort of advice about freeing them off, to help and save the cost of towing or recovery etc.
     
  7. Sean6211

    Sean6211 Member

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    Aside from the potential ramification of having information on how to hotwire the ignition of an S3 readily available on this forum, it is also a safety issue for the OP. If advice given regarding the wiring was wrong or followed incorrectly, and he shorted wires which blows an expensive ECU, or worse case cause a fire, I don't particularly want that on my conscience.

    The advice given to use a reputable towing company is actually the lowest risk option, as well as being able to get his car safely to a proper workshop to have the problem repaired.
     
  8. TYb

    TYb Well-Known Member TFSI Owners Group Team Navarra Audi S3

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    If the OP provided some context etc may be people would listen but he’s just posted again for the 2nd time without any info other than not insured. As I said before could be innocent but feels a bit flakey to me.
     
  9. A1DEYB

    A1DEYB Well-Known Member

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    No we don't but that's at the other end of the scale isn't it.

    The fact is he isn't asking how to unlock a fuel cap or how to get a head unit out he's asking how to bypass security features of a brand of car (which is highly sort after by scumbags) by means of hot wiring to get the dashboard on.. once that's on and the steering lock is snapped its pretty much drive able.

    This is a public forum where nobody knows each other, you don't know him, just like i don't or others don't know him, nor does anyone know the 100% truth the reasons why questions are being asked to hot wire a car.

    As I've said before, if he can afford an 8V audi S3 then he can afford to have it towed to a garage.

    Information might be available on wikipedia but how can people condemn scumbags for stealing or trying to steal Audi cars or any car for that matter on here yet offer advise on how to hot wire a car.. It's conflicted.

    For all we know that's someones pride and joy and the keys been lost after it's been nicked and it still needs to be moved, sounds extreme i know but the point i'm making is nobody actually knows the real deal here do they as we are using a public forum.
     
    TYb likes this.
  10. James789

    James789 New Member

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    Hi guys
    The car has a lot of damage and im out of pocket at the moment, my most trusted recovery is quoting £340 to get it out of the garage which i find extortion.
    Lets forget about the hotwire topic since I understand it might sound abit dodgy, although the car is not stolen and is owned by me, i wouldnt be daft to be posting on a public forum if i was handling a stolen car.

    Could someone please advise if they have any knowledge on releasing electronic handbrake?
    My friend managed to do it on his bmw when his battery was flat since they had an emergency release in the boot, but these new Audi’s dont have such thing and on my manual it says theres no way to release it without power, all i want to do is release the handbrake

    Any help would be appreciated

    Thanks
     
  11. James789

    James789 New Member

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    Also for those accusing of security breach, regardless of hotwiring a car, theres no way starting the vehicle without the immobiliser which is in my key. At the moment when i put the key in and turn it theres nothing as the actual connector from the key barrel and steering wheel is missing, someone obviously tried to ‘hotwire and drive away’ but wasnt possible as key has to be present. Hotwiring days are over, all i wanted was the ignition on but nevermind that, if anyone could kindly help on the handbrake would be appreciated
     
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  13. traindweller

    traindweller Active Member Team Floret Silver Audi A3

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    @James789,
    good posts above regarding the hotwire aspect and immobiliser, just not possible by the sound of it, which should reassure those that thought it was so easy to do.
    Sorry I can't help but really hope you get a result regarding the brake release. I did a search and the best I can see is some guidance about releasing the motor from the calipers on a Passat but no guarantee that would work for you and does sound a lot of work.
    Hope you manage to get it sorted and not too expensive.
     
  14. Bittern

    Bittern Well-Known Member TDi Audi A3 S-line owners group

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    Regards releasing the EPB, there are vids on Youtube that might help ?

    Like this one ?

     
  15. AlS3BE

    AlS3BE Well-Known Member

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    There are tools out there and essentially you are wiring a battery to the callipers for them to unwind with a risk of damaging the callipers. Could cost more than the £340 each as opposed to your tow.
    £340 for a tow is not terribly extortionate for a decent tow on a flat bed to be fair. They are expensive trucks.
    As I said in your other post a set of go jacks is your best bet. Seen them at places like halford and Euro car parts.
     
  16. James789

    James789 New Member

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    @Bittern thank you, will have a browse on youtube, i think that is the only option to release it. Unless I can obviously get the ignition on

    If anyone knows the colour coding for ignition wires please let me know, i tried the red to browns but nothing

    Thanks all
     
  17. AlS3BE

    AlS3BE Well-Known Member

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    Not trying to be a funny guy or anything but I think most of them will need to go back to where they are cut from. You will have immobiliser talking to ecu, ignition power, all the other potential canbus modules that all need to talk to each other before you even get to ignition on.
    Might be cheaper getting a mobile auto electrician or a mobile alarm fitter and see what they can do as they will be more familiar with it. Definitely not gonna be a twist a couple of cables together and hope you get power to release the handbrake.
    Sorry not much help but back to the point in hot wiring a car it can be done without keys/immobiliser. You just need to know how which is what I think everyone isn’t wanting to be on a public forum.
     
  18. DJAlix

    DJAlix VAG Car Coding Site Sponsor Team Ibis VAG Can Professional VCDS Map User Gold Supporter quattro ODIS (Offboard Diagnostic System)

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    As said it looks like the wires have been cut and not pulled so it should be a case of finding the other side and matching red to red, blue to blue etc etc. Simple job to be honest, connection wise anyway. Loads more works needed once you get the vehicle moving
     
  19. Sean6211

    Sean6211 Member

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    James, thanks for clarifying your situation. The ignition wiring aspect, you will need to locate the other end which plugs into the key barrel. The barrel makes the correct contacts between multiple wires, it is not as simple as brown to red as you found out. If you do not have the other end of the wire, your best bet is still have the car towed to a workshop.

    The rear parking brakes can be released manually, you will need to remove the motor at the rear of the each caliper and unwind the drive pushing the piston. It is a hex socket drive if I am recalling correctly, or torx.
     
  20. TYb

    TYb Well-Known Member TFSI Owners Group Team Navarra Audi S3

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    Do you mind me asking how the damage occurred and why the car isn’t insured?
     
  21. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member Team Brill Red saloon Audi A3

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    Good question. It has been asked either explicitly or implicitly more than once in this thread. It is the key to it all. I can’t quite figure why he doesn’t just get it towed to a repairer. He said in an early post that that was the eventual intention anyway.
     
  22. James789

    James789 New Member

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    @Sean6211 Thanks alot mate, will contact my local mechanic see if it sounds like something he can do for me, otherwise will dig into it myself in the weekend

    @TYb the car was bought 2 months ago and was left on my driveway, was waiting to sell my previous A5 so I could transfer the insurance over rather than having 2 policies, and sadly 3 days before I sold the A5 the S3 was broken into on my drive at 4am without any noise or anything, still dont know how they managed to open the doors without alarm going off, theres the actual loon missing from where it connects to on the steering wheel and cut from the bottom.
    Ive since invested in steering wheel lock (old is gold).
    Pushed it into my garage to prevent the car being stolen (thought the scums will come back to complete unfinished business) but obviously set the handbrake on, will try dig into it this weekend
     
  23. Sean6211

    Sean6211 Member

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    James, looking at the photos it seems you are missing more than just the plug that hooks to the key barrel. The key loom part number is 5Q0 905 849 C, you can do a search on the internet. The key loom only has 5 wires, whereas your cut loom has way more, looks like two twisted pairs which are likely CANBUS wires which could mean a whole control module may be missing.

    The rear caliper motor once removed will reveal an E-torx head, you will need an E-11 E-torx socket to turn it to release the brake pads.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  24. AllanG

    AllanG Q5 TFSI

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    @James789, sorry to hear of your problems, however, you say that your S3 was parked on your drive when it was broken into, and the wiring damage done and, I presume, the hand brake was already applied whilst it was on your drive. If this is correct, how did you manage to release the hand brake to move the car into your garage??
     
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  25. James789

    James789 New Member

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    @Sean6211 thanks a lot mate, will see what i can do this weekend for the brakes
    What about applying power to the motor with a battery?

    @AllanG the parking brake wasnt on while it was parked on drive, just the gearbox set on P
     
  26. Sean6211

    Sean6211 Member

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    I don't think applying power to the motor directly is a good idea. There is more than just a simple DC motor inside, as there is an in-built controller which measures the movement of the motor end to end, as well as relaying this information back to the ABS module. You may run the risk of moving the motor beyond the limits and breaking something, these modules aren't cheap to replace.
     
  27. AlS3BE

    AlS3BE Well-Known Member

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    Let me get this straight, I’m a bit confused.
    The car was parked in the drive and damaged. The handbrake wasn’t on and by the looks of it the wiring was all damaged in the drive.
    You then pushed it in the garage and somehow managed to apply the handbrake with all the wiring damage.
    If you were able to apply the handbrake then you should be able to release it.
    Another thing is if it was in P and you can’t get ignition on you shouldn’t have been able to move the gearstick to N to push it in the garage as ,if I remember right, you need ignition on and footbrake on so a solenoid moves out the way so the gearstick can move. The connection between the gearstick and gearbox is electronic not mechanical so I can only assume you need some form of power for the box to shift into N.
    Maybe it could be just me after a beer being a bit too suspicious but something doesn’t quite add up.
     
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  28. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member Team Brill Red saloon Audi A3

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    I must say that all of this occurred to me.
    Also - if the car was not insured but on your property, have you checked to see if the house/contents insurance would cover it.
    I must say that if it was mine I would have had it recovered to a repairer by now.
     
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  29. Sparks43

    Sparks43 3rd Gear

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    Home Insurance excludes mechanical vehicles
     
  30. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member TFSI Owners Group saloon Audi A4 S-line owners group

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    It is what it says it is, home insurance...
     
  31. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member TFSI Owners Group saloon Audi A4 S-line owners group

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    With my car there is a tool in the car's kit to manually release the park mode...
     
  32. AlS3BE

    AlS3BE Well-Known Member

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    Never seen one before. Then again never had the need to use one. What does this tool look like?
     
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  34. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member TFSI Owners Group saloon Audi A4 S-line owners group

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    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 9:02 PM
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  35. AlS3BE

    AlS3BE Well-Known Member

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    Assuming that’s the gearbox release, that’s just the solenoid that holds it in P till brake is applied, then there’s still the issue of handbrake. If he could put it on then he should be able to release it.

    Depending on gearbox (a4)as some have the zf torque converter boxes which are more mechanical but the dsg boxes needs the mechatronics gubbins fired up to shift so the OP still would have had the issues of pushing it in his garage without it being in neutral.
    I don’t want to be the cynical one here as it’s probably perfectly honest/innocent what the OP is asking but some things don’t add up for me. Could be just me misread the whole post.
    Anyway back to the beer:wink:
     
  36. James789

    James789 New Member

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    Sick and tired of people and ‘suspicions’. I didnt come on this forum to give easy access to police on tracing a stolen car.

    Yes the car was on p, and i released it manually with the yellow lever underneath the gearknob cover

    As for handbrake, like i mentioned on first message on this forum, when u pull it up it works (the P sign comes up on dash), but when you want to put it down u need ignition!

    If you have any way to help on brakes then message otherwise thanks for reading but dont need negative comments

    Thanks to those who have helped, will try get into the brake motor tomorrow
     
    traindweller likes this.
  37. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member TFSI Owners Group saloon Audi A4 S-line owners group

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    Have one on me...
    I have used the lever on my A4 and I can assure you it is a mechanical overide that releases the p mode and allows the car to be moved. No electronics were required to do this and I was forced to use this when the park solenoid failed just after I purchased it, which meant p mode was locked on even with power going to the mechtronics. Unfortunately you are incorrect in this instance and I suggest you read your manual because mine, on page 110, it states "manual release of parking lock". There is again no mention of any electrical power being required and if fact my car was put on a flatbed with the ignition off.
    Only the S4 and the 3.0l diesel of the b9 has a zf8 gearbox, all the others have stronic. However if you remain unconvinced I might be able to find a diagram of my dl382 gearbox that illustrates how the manual overide works, if I can get away from my wine that is...
     
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  38. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member Team Brill Red saloon Audi A3

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    It’s not the auto P mode that is the problem. It’s releasing the EPB.
     
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  39. TYb

    TYb Well-Known Member TFSI Owners Group Team Navarra Audi S3

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    People aren’t being nasty we’re just a tad suspicious, we hear of S3’s being stolen every other week on here. Then all of sudden your 1st post is all about an S3 with ignition damage and it being uninsured.

    Surely you can see that rings alarm bells, you’ve never alluded to how the damage occurred and why it’s not insured, you don’t have to I might add but you can’t expect people not to be suspicious.
     
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  40. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member TFSI Owners Group saloon Audi A4 S-line owners group

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    Yes?
     
  41. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member Team Brill Red saloon Audi A3

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    So are you saying that using the manual override to release P mode also releases the EPB?
     
  42. Sean6211

    Sean6211 Member

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    Guys, James mentioned the EPB was NOT applied when the damage was done in his driveway.

    He then discovered the damage, managed to release the transmission from Park via the over ride under the gear selector trim.

    He then pushed the car into the garage, and this is where it gets everyone. HOW DID HE THEN APPLY THE PARKING BRAKES?

    Well, if you go to your A3/S3 and release the EPB with ignition on, then switch off ignition, take out the keys, and give it 10 secs for everything to go off. Pull the EPB switch up, and you will hear the EPB engage even without ignition. Audi designed it as a safety item that you can always engage the EPB even without ignition power. Releasing it is a whole different matter without ignition.
     
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  43. AlS3BE

    AlS3BE Well-Known Member

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    Never tried to apply handbrake after ignition off as it applies the handbrake for you when you turn ignition off. It’s not recommended to use park as a parking brake as it could damage transmission, that’s what I was always told in autos.
    Guess the obd type tools won’t work with releasing handbrake cause you need ignition on.
    Only safe way is to wind them back manually after removing the motor. Just don’t wind it too far back and damage the calliper.
    My recommendation will be pay the £340 recovery. A new calliper is gonna cost more than £340 if you damage it and you could end up damaging 2 at almost £1k to fix.
     
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