Audi S3 8l VR6 turbo build!

[S3addict]

Well I'm from Australia and bought my self a
nogaro blue 02 S3 8l and a 2.8 24v motor
As I just started I've had the block and head sent to a machine shop to get tanked decked honed etc now just waiting for some parts to be delivered from overseas!
What does everybody think? Any opinions and tips?

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[Nilz]

@Sandip

 

[Gops]

Love a BT build. R32 would be my choice of an engine build. Torque would be immense.

 

[S3addict]

Love a BT build. R32 would be my choice of an engine build. Torque would be immense.

I would too but there pretty expensive, but I'm sure with a full forged motor and 6466 with e85 I could get some good power


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[Stuart B]

what is the 2.8 engine from? I thought the Audi A3 Quattro V6 engine was 3.2?

 

[<tuffty/>]

what is the 2.8 engine from? I thought the Audi A3 Quattro V6 engine was 3.2?

Golf 4 motion

<tuffty/>

 

[Solberg]

Proper engine with proper sound.... will follow

 

[S3addict]

what is the 2.8 engine from? I thought the Audi A3 Quattro V6 engine was 3.2?

It's from the vw Bora 4motion or as other country's say "Jetta" or Mark 4


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[superkarl]

I would too but there pretty expensive, but I'm sure with a full forged motor and 6466 with e85 I could get some good power


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The 3.2 head fits the blocks if you can find one. Flows the best

 

[<tuffty/>]

Love to do this on mine... if I hadn't already done a 4 pot... and could be a*sed

<tuffty/>

 

[Shoomakan]

Well I'm from Australia and bought my self a
nogaro blue 02 S3 8l and a 2.8 24v motor
As I just started I've had the block and head sent to a machine shop to get tanked decked honed etc now just waiting for some parts to be delivered from overseas!
What does everybody think? Any opinions and tips?

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Thank God you're smart enough to do this from the get-go and not invest in the 1.8T as most of us have. If the car is new I suggest a poly-bush job along with the appropriate spring/shock combo. Those make the most difference. Then adjustable camber plates and rear control arms if you like corners.

 

[S3addict]

The 3.2 head fits the blocks if you can find one. Flows the best

Aren't the head studs and coolant passages different?


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[S3addict]

Thank God you're smart enough to do this from the get-go and not invest in the 1.8T as most of us have. If the car is new I suggest a poly-bush job along with the appropriate spring/shock combo. Those make the most difference. Then adjustable camber plates and rear control arms if you like corners.

All new mounts and bolts will be sorted, this will be a "might aswell do everything properly now not later" build! It's more of a straight power car hence the big turbo but few track days won't hurt


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[superkarl]

Aren't the head studs and coolant passages different?


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http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3929892#/topics/3929892?page=3&_k=vtkkrc

Use the 2.8 head studs and 3.2 gasket it seems. People have been doing it for years


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[ayfreetee]

Not a fan of the pretend V6, rather spend the money on the 1.8t personally, but each to their own, that's what keeps the tuning world going, so well done.

 

[superkarl]

Not a fan of the pretend V6, rather spend the money on the 1.8t personally, but each to their own, that's what keeps the tuning world going, so well done.

Pretend?

It's pure genius


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[S3addict]

Not a fan of the pretend V6, rather spend the money on the 1.8t personally, but each to their own, that's what keeps the tuning world going, so well done.

When you drive someone else's Bora v6 turbo than drive your own 1.8t s3.. you'll understand haha


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[ayfreetee]

Been there, done that, great sound, just too nose heavy, flipping quick though.

 

[S3addict]

Love to do this on mine... if I hadn't already done a 4 pot... and could be a*sed

<tuffty/>

What turbo did you use? And how much power did you make? Videos?!


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[<tuffty/>]

What turbo did you use? And how much power did you make? Videos?!


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I have a build thread dude...

If you want the full evolution of my car then start from the beginning here... long read but lots of pictures
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/my-minor-modding-thread.76389

Latest iteration with a full engine build starts here...
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/my-minor-modding-thread.76389/page-53#post-1911525

<tuffty/>

 

[S3addict]

I have a build thread dude...

If you want the full evolution of my car then start from the beginning here... long read but lots of pictures
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/my-minor-modding-thread.76389

Latest iteration with a full engine build starts here...
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/my-minor-modding-thread.76389/page-53#post-1911525

<tuffty/>

Damnnnnn "minor" build did you say hahaha, that's a great build, sorry about your job though, atleast you got the s3 done!!


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[<tuffty/>]

Damnnnnn "minor" build did you say hahaha, that's a great build, sorry about your job though, atleast you got the s3 done!!


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Clearly not finished reading it then lol

<tuffty/>

 

[S3addict]

Clearly not finished reading it then lol

<tuffty/>

No build car is ever finished from being in the garage lol, your currently fixing the haldex? Have you put it back together?


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[Ivan Fuentes Hagar]

Love to do this on mine... if I hadn't already done a 4 pot... and could be a*sed

<tuffty/>

I'd love to try something like this as well, but there aren't any options for custom maps where I'm currently living, so most people just get the premade stuff for their 1.8T's from Unitronic, Revo, GIAC, etc... Been thinking about getting Maestro Tuning Suite so I could get custom maps for whatever I do on my AMK... but wouldn't know how would that fit with a 2.8T/3.2T setup. Most they offer for 3.2 VR6's are a couple extra ponies on their Stage 2 maps for NA engine.

 

[<tuffty/>]

No build car is ever finished from being in the garage lol, your currently fixing the haldex? Have you put it back together?


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Ahhh ok... your comment about my job threw me as that was 2 1/2 years ago and had a new job pretty much straight after lol

To be fair other than the gear change incident the car has not needed to be on a ramp for anything other than an oil change and haldex faults like this appears to be are fairly common from standard cars to mildly tune cars..

Not back together yet as waiting on parts...

I'd love to try something like this as well, but there aren't any options for custom maps where I'm currently living, so most people just get the premade stuff for their 1.8T's from Unitronic, Revo, GIAC, etc... Been thinking about getting Maestro Tuning Suite so I could get custom maps for whatever I do on my AMK... but wouldn't know how would that fit with a 2.8T/3.2T setup. Most they offer for 3.2 VR6's are a couple extra ponies on their Stage 2 maps for NA engine.

You would need to use the R32 ECU obviously for this as they have the required outputs to drive ignition etc... they are also narrowband ECU's and from what I understand they use essentially a NA tune but compensated for the extra airflow etc... there is no boost control from the ECU and is normally handled by just running off actuator or external boost controller... more exotic setups seem to use standalone ECU's...

<tuffty/>

 

[Ivan Fuentes Hagar]

more exotic setups seem to use standalone ECU's...
<tuffty/>

How come I didn't see it! I was so concerned about what the R32 ECU wouldn't allow me to do, that I didn't even think about adding something fancy to the mix, like Haltech or MoTeC. Not simple at all, of course, but at least there ARE professional tuners around who have used these, which comes great when you don't want your newbieness to f#ck up your engine.
Cost of course is high, but so is stroking it out, or anything other than the usual "remap+intake+exhaust" combo for that matter. Well, It's still a few months before I start, so I'll take my time to do the maths and sketch things out.

 

[Stuart B]

is the 3.2 V6 lighter than the 2.8 V6, because the engine is the same but with "bigger holes" ? or are the blocks different?

 

[S3addict]

is the 3.2 V6 lighter than the 2.8 V6, because the engine is the same but with "bigger holes" ? or are the blocks different?

I highly doubt there's much of a weight difference, and r32 uses different crank, rods and Pistons, the heads different aswell


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[ayfreetee]

Dam sight heavier than the four pot.

 

[Stuart B]

I was looking at a 3.2 A3 Quattro shortly after I got my S3, a tiny bit cheaper than the S3. Does it have cam chains or belt(s) .
Maybe the boro being a saloon body shape helps with the extra weight. But the S3 is 1500kg's anyway so it can't be that much heavier 40-50kg?
Does it have dual throttle bodies and when turbo'd two turbos? Or a single turbo?
Interesting that Tufty said the easiest way with standard ECU is to run on actuator only and I assume the car simply deals with the extra air?

There is already an S3 running 3.2 and turbo on here, but I cannot remember their user.

 

[<tuffty/>]

I was looking at a 3.2 A3 Quattro shortly after I got my S3, a tiny bit cheaper than the S3. Does it have cam chains or belt(s) .
Maybe the boro being a saloon body shape helps with the extra weight. But the S3 is 1500kg's anyway so it can't be that much heavier 40-50kg?
Does it have dual throttle bodies and when turbo'd two turbos? Or a single turbo?
Interesting that Tufty said the easiest way with standard ECU is to run on actuator only and I assume the car simply deals with the extra air?

There is already an S3 running 3.2 and turbo on here, but I cannot remember their user.

Chains

1550 ish kg

Single 75mm TB

Single turbo as a rule but some have done twin as the VR engine cants forwards rather than backwards but still not much room though

Air is air... turbos just make more... ME7 tuning is about load (airflow) so adjust maps to cope with increased airflow.. (amongst other things)

<tuffty/>

 

[Stuart B]

You make it sound so simple

So I assume the standard R32 is around 240bhp and the k04 at 12psi accuator adds 60-80bhp and a whole bunch of torque?

Or instead do you skip the k04 and add 400bhp with a turbo more like your one? Or is that then too much air for the standard ECU?

It would be an exciting project to be part of / follow but projects are neverending and these components must be more difficult to find for the v6 versus the common 1.8t?

I'm surprised the 3.2 R32 only makes 237bhp standard? My old s-type 3.0 made 240bhp using the same block as the Mondeo ST220 ?

 

[superkarl]

You make it sound so simple

So I assume the standard R32 is around 240bhp and the k04 at 12psi accuator adds 60-80bhp and a whole bunch of torque?

Or instead do you skip the k04 and add 400bhp with a turbo more like your one? Or is that then too much air for the standard ECU?

It would be an exciting project to be part of / follow but projects are neverending and these components must be more difficult to find for the v6 versus the common 1.8t?

I'm surprised the 3.2 R32 only makes 237bhp standard? My old s-type 3.0 made 240bhp using the same block as the Mondeo ST220 ?

A ko4 on a VR would be like trying to blow up an air bed through a drinks straw


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[<tuffty/>]

K04 would be far too asthmatic on a VR... GT3071 as a minimum really... get you into the 400's easily at low boost

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

Or is that then too much air for the standard ECU?

Would still need mapping... considering std ECU's can be used for 600hp S3's then std R32 ECU's are not much different in that respect tuning wise

components must be more difficult to find for the v6 versus the common 1.8t?

Not difficult... just more expensive hence why I haven't just gone ahead and done it on mine else I would...

Cheap option is a compression sandwich plate to lower compression and run around 12-15psi actuator... with a GT3071 this will get you over 400hp/ftlbs on a 3.2... more expensive option is similar to a full on 1.8t build... pistons, rods etc...

Turbo manifolds and inlet manifolds are readily available for VR engines... HPA do full conversion kits (albeit it for meeeeeelions of dolla) as its all very popular for R32 owners

<tuffty/>

 

[Stuart B]

jezusss.....

Their entry level turbo upgrade is errrm ... £10K

http://www.jbsautodesigns.co.uk/product/333/jbs-ts-380-0306

Interesting, they only need to add a FMIC at the 440 turbo upgrade, but as you eluded too they add a gasket I assume to make the cylinder bigger and reduce compression?

But even JBS 1.8T Turbo upgrade to 280BHP is £3.5K and they said they designed the manifold? I thought they used the ported Aliexpress chinafolds - maybe I was thinking of someone else.

 

[<tuffty/>]

but as you eluded too they add a gasket I assume to make the cylinder bigger and reduce compression?

no eluding... to run a turbo on a high compression engine you need to reduce the compression... you can either replace the pistons to a suitable ratio or fit what is essentially a thicker head gasket

and they said they designed the manifold? I thought they used the ported Aliexpress chinafolds

They did design and market the original manifold... it didn't work, they kinda dropped it and now the same factories in china that made them sell it on as the chinafold (less the JBS branding)... which needs porting to work

<tuffty/>

 

[Stuart B]

Certainly is an expensive hobby

 

[<tuffty/>]

Certainly is an expensive hobby

I don't think I have one that isn't lol

<tuffty/>

 

[snowy]

Not a fan of the pretend V6, rather spend the money on the 1.8t personally, but each to their own, that's what keeps the tuning world going, so well done.

Offset inline 6

Fundamental aspect of a V eninge are the dual cylinder banks

Be it V2, V4, V6, V8, V12, V16, etc etc

A ko4 on a VR would be like trying to blow up an air bed through a drinks straw

Which type of K04 though & how many ?

Audi's proper V6 with twin K04, as per RS/S4 Biturbo tend to feel too asthmatic