Audi S3 8l VR6 turbo build!

S3addict

Registered User
Following parts have been ordered!
81.5mm JE Pistons compression 8:5:1
IE forged rods
Arp head studs/arp main studs
Standard rod and main bearings, thrust washers
Ultimate timing chain kit
Gasket kit
Subframe bolts

After the bottom block is done I'll start with the valvetrain!!!

Now I was looking at cams, but heard stock cams are fine. What do use think? Also is it worth getting the crank pulley damper??



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Stuart B

Registered User
I thought the standard S4 Bi Turbo was twin K03s running at about 10psi and a common update was to put K04s in place of them.

I assume the pretend V6 comment is based on the fact it has a single throttle body and is a little bit more like an inline.
 

Stuart B

Registered User
Following parts have been ordered!
81.5mm JE Pistons compression 8:5:1
IE forged rods
Arp head studs/arp main studs
Standard rod and main bearings, thrust washers
Ultimate timing chain kit
Gasket kit
Subframe bolts

After the bottom block is done I'll start with the valvetrain!!!

Now I was looking at cams, but heard stock cams are fine. What do use think? Also is it worth getting the crank pulley damper??



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have you browsed the JBS site? they do not update many of the components until the package is expected to make 500+ BHP?
 

snowy

Registered User
I thought the standard S4 Bi Turbo was twin K03s running at about 10psi and a common update was to put K04s in place of them.

I assume the pretend V6 comment is based on the fact it has a single throttle body and is a little bit more like an inline.

The early biturbo's had K03 (98-2000), then K04 (2000-2005)

What defines a V engine is the configuration of the block and cylinder heads, nothing to do with how many throttle bottles, carbs, etc

engines_types_sml.jpg
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
have you browsed the JBS site? they do not update many of the components until the package is expected to make 500+ BHP?

JBS are back in the Stone Age


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superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
Ps. It's a V


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superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
The early biturbo's had K03 (98-2000), then K04 (2000-2005)

What defines a V engine is the configuration of the block and cylinder heads, nothing to do with how many throttle bottles, carbs, etc

View attachment 113742

just to be clear It's the RS4 V6s that had the ko4 turbos.
It's the most common upgrade for the S4 (ko3)


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snowy

Registered User
JBS are back in the Stone Age


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More importantly they lie though teeth about the possible power outputs they have achieved, the quality of their kit, who actually designed it, etc etc

I speak from having owned/rebuilt JBS built 20v's and turbo kit

ko4 turbos

Point being medium frame turbo + 6 potter = rapid (low rpm) boost threshold + decent hp output (if done right of course)

Big turbo on 6potter still tends to leave you with a high (3000rpm+) boost threshold

But imho, modern turbo tech render 6pot+ a heavy way to achieved hp

V.V.Nice for lazy motoring though, pootling along an autobahn type driving
 

ayfreetee

Registered User
I was looking at a 3.2 A3 Quattro shortly after I got my S3, a tiny bit cheaper than the S3. Does it have cam chains or belt(s) .
Maybe the boro being a saloon body shape helps with the extra weight. But the S3 is 1500kg's anyway so it can't be that much heavier 40-50kg?
Does it have dual throttle bodies and when turbo'd two turbos? Or a single turbo?
Interesting that Tufty said the easiest way with standard ECU is to run on actuator only and I assume the car simply deals with the extra air?

There is already an S3 running 3.2 and turbo on here, but I cannot remember their user.
R32 is 150kg heavier than an S3.
 

S3addict

Registered User
I thought the standard S4 Bi Turbo was twin K03s running at about 10psi and a common update was to put K04s in place of them.

I assume the pretend V6 comment is based on the fact it has a single throttle body and is a little bit more like an inline.

And just to be clear the 4motion BORA's never came out with the 2.7tt s4 engine.
They only came out with the 1.8t, v6 12v and the v6 24v... the Audi s4 engine was never used in the vw line.


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<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
People think it's not possible or it's too hard, it's literally plug and play.
Exactly...

Just more expensive to build ...

Innit... if an engine and gearbox came up for the right money I would still be tempted to sell my stroker to finance one though lol

<tuffty/>
 

S3addict

Registered User
Exactly...



Innit... if an engine and gearbox came up for the right money I would still be tempted to sell my stroker to finance one though lol

<tuffty/>

Might aswell go all out on the 3.6.. it's that much quicker (I own one)


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Stuart B

Registered User
And just to be clear the 4motion BORA's never came out with the 2.7tt s4 engine.
They only came out with the 1.8t, v6 12v and the v6 24v... the Audi s4 engine was never used in the vw line.


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Yeah, I am sorry your thread was a bit hijacked and digressed when discussing the potential turbo required.

How long do you expect this project to take to get the engine installed and running?
 

S3addict

Registered User
Yeah, I am sorry your thread was a bit hijacked and digressed when discussing the potential turbo required.

How long do you expect this project to take to get the engine installed and running?

2-3months max from now, well hopefully


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<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
I'd be wary of the oil and coolant lines in those kits unless they have seriously changed them from the last one I have seen.... you want nothing less than stainless coolant lines from the turbo... the log mani they seem to supply at least means oil drain may be less problematic but just really watch out unprotected stuff near anything that can generate heat...

Heat shield the b*llux out of it essentially... one thing that sooooo many builds neglect to do... then wonder why stuff melts or worse..

<tuffty/>
 

Stuart B

Registered User
Thanks for the update Bill :) so essentially they can be mapped (not by you) using their existing ECU and pretending there is no turbo just more air and let the turbo manage its own wastegate with a direct connect from charge pipe to actuator but that is really a bit of a hack.

But.... you will map them with a standalone ECU which has access to real sensors, controllers etc incorporating the turbo and associated components eg N75 equivalent

Is the first solution a hack because the ECU has no idea what's going on, so it can be mapped and on the day it will be fine but a week later or when the sun comes out the environment change simply can't be dealt with as the ECU cannot adjust the main component and there's no protection should the turbo go mad?
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
Turbo on non turbo engines run on air and fuel... a turbo just gets more in... most R32 turbo setups that use OE ECU are fairly low boost pressures compared to what us 20v peeps use... leaving boost control off the table all you are then essentially dealing with is a volume of air... this is still metered through the MAF so the ECU knows whats going in and can fuel accordingly...

You would of course have to upsize the injectors and scale for those plus move some of the protection maps about as you would in a 20v map...

The normal protection maps remain so knock control etc but the R32 ECU's are narrow band so blind to WOT fuelling... makes them more 'interesting' to tune...

In all honesty there are so many standalone ECU's that are starting to enter the market that are plug and play replacements to ME 7 that its worth going standalone anyway..

Boost control on ME7 will be from the actuator or some kind of EBC realistically... sophisticated EBC's have protection systems built in so you are can be covered there but its something else to fit..

For the most part you can fit a turbo to any engine in any car... you just need a way to allow fuelling to increase with boost etc (rising rate FPR) and map accordingly so AFR is where it needs to be and you don't get knock... obvs you can only run small amounts of boost on NA hardware without modification (compression ratio being a potential issue as cylinder pressure will increase from boost and how strong the engine is generally)

I nearly fitted a K03 to the 1.3 8v in my Mk2 Golf...

<tuffty/>
 

Stuart B

Registered User
So my brother-in-law had an old Targa top 280zx (or 300 ?) with Twin Turbos - that was in the 80's and the car was already pretty old - there were no computers did it just have a massive mechanical fuel pump - to deliver the increased fuel requests still based on RPM - or was it easier with Carbs as they simply sucked in more fuel with the air via the venturi
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
So my brother-in-law had an old Targa top 280zx (or 300 ?) with Twin Turbos - that was in the 80's and the car was already pretty old - there were no computers did it just have a massive mechanical fuel pump - to deliver the increased fuel requests still based on RPM - or was it easier with Carbs as they simply sucked in more fuel with the air via the venturi

You are doing it again aren't you ;)

<tuffty/>
 

S3addict

Registered User
So far I've sent off all the bottom end bits to the shop to be balanced, in the mean time I'll be cleaning up engine bits and repainting!
I've been offered a clutch masters fx450 clutch + flywheel kit..
Anyone recommend a good clutch or should this be fine?
In Australian metric unit I'm looking for 350-450kilowatts at the wheels
Not sure how much bhp that is.. roughly 550bhp I think..


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<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
Might be worth looking at what the R32 boys are using... not much call for 6 pot clutches on here lol...

It will be torque rather than horsepower you need to worry about though... I have seen an R32T on a HPA based GT3071 setup make peak figures of 440hp/440ftlbs on Bills dyno, don't recall at what RPM though (peak torque/rpm is relevant)... so for 550hp peak you will easily be in the late 400's ftlbs I would imagine...

My Std DMF/cover and Sachs 4 puck paddle plate handle my torque output/onset well... obviously clutch life is hugely subjective... the way you drive massively influences longevity... I don't launch, use NLS or change gear fast and furious style but if you are a bit of a hooligan then any clutch will give up...

If I launched mine all the time it simply wouldn't last and that will be the same for any clutch...

I can't find the FX450 kit on their site so don't know its rating but you will need something thats 500+ftlbs rated to be sure

<tuffty/>
 

S3addict

Registered User
Might be worth looking at what the R32 boys are using... not much call for 6 pot clutches on here lol...

It will be torque rather than horsepower you need to worry about though... I have seen an R32T on a HPA based GT3071 setup make peak figures of 440hp/440ftlbs on Bills dyno, don't recall at what RPM though (peak torque/rpm is relevant)... so for 550hp peak you will easily be in the late 400's ftlbs I would imagine...

My Std DMF/cover and Sachs 4 puck paddle plate handle my torque output/onset well... obviously clutch life is hugely subjective... the way you drive massively influences longevity... I don't launch, use NLS or change gear fast and furious style but if you are a bit of a hooligan then any clutch will give up...

If I launched mine all the time it simply wouldn't last and that will be the same for any clutch...

I can't find the FX450 kit on their site so don't know its rating but you will need something thats 500+ftlbs rated to be sure

<tuffty/>

Someone from my area bought it off (ringer racing) and offered it to me, it's second hand with 6000kms, I'll have a look in r32 section, its rating is 650nm... not sure what that's converted to for LB


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Ivan Fuentes Hagar

Registered User
What about fitting a 3.2 8N TT's engine? Could you also use the DSG gearbox that came with some of those? I assume it's still the same drivetrain and stuff.
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
What about fitting a 3.2 8N TT's engine? Could you also use the DSG gearbox that came with some of those? I assume it's still the same drivetrain and stuff.

Potentially yeah but DSG gearboxes are chocolate especially at the level of power the OP is intending

<tuffty/>
 

Sam_

Down under
Potentially yeah but DSG gearboxes are chocolate especially at the level of power the OP is intending

<tuffty/>

Need the DQ500 from Tiguan/Q3/TTRS/RS3 like I was thinking of fitting. It needs an adapter for the 6 cylinder engines but they seem to handle up to 900nm currently with the OEM flywheel. DQ250 up to around 400-450nm with a remap.
 
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