Audi S3 8l Revo Stage3 only pings between 0.5 to 0.75 boost

[johan(Audi s3 8l)]

Good Morning

I have revo stage3 software on my car and been running like this for 2 years now. I redid the motor ,rods ,pistons ,head valves ,new turbo Gt28/71r and also running nissan gtr35 injectors 570 cc. o and new maf sensor, front mount cooler. Car runs like a dream and power is awsome. (BUT) wat eritates me is the car has a very slight ping under boost between 0.5 until 0.75 and from there to 1.8 bar no ping. I can se there is some timming retart happining i will post some logs to confirm this. Also egt is in spec.

Spark plugs running in the car , NGK.BKR7E Feul (unleaded 95)

Please if anyone had this isue before please give me some pointers

Thanks you ,

 

[<tuffty/>]

Logs would be useful as timing pull is fairly normal operation... generally 3's is high enough but Revo stage 3 is typically generic to a set hardware list so in all honesty you may need a custom map to 'fix' any 'issue' you may have..

Timing pull in this case could be due to an under reading MAF (causing map to be in a lower load site than expecting and running more timing as a result), oil getting into the charge air dropping the octane rating of the fuel, wear in the engine etc... too many factors when modified to the level you have...

Due to the 'exotic' nature of your hardware setup the only way to diagnose is to log everything preferably on a dyno as yours is non standard so you can't just diagnose that easily without seeing data...

<tuffty/>

 

[johan(Audi s3 8l)]

Thanks for your responce buddy, okay step one i will ask my buddy at Smart racing if i can use his dyno and log some pulls. I wil post the vcds logs late next week. Thanks for the advice. I did 1000km on the new engine now so it is still running in. Before i did the motor it was doing the same. So it makes totally sence wat you are saying.

Appreciate your time

 

[Sam_M]

Was the car mapped on unleaded 95? 1.8bar seems like a huge amount of boost for such low octane fuel.

That aside, if the pinging is only between 0.5 and 0.75 bar and nowhere else it's probably nothing to worry about, but I'd suggest the timing map needs looking at for that particular area.

 

[johan(Audi s3 8l)]

Thanks for the reply , yes it was just flashed with revo stage 3 (generic map) only use 95 unleaded no drive time or dyno time. Local town driving i will set the boost controller to 1bar at thw 400m strips i will use methanol

 

[Sam_M]

OK I understand - to me using a generic map for a setup that is quite different from OEM seems risky. If it had been my car I'd have live mapped it on the dyno then had final tuning on the road.

 

[superkarl]

I wouldn't be driving the car at anything above actuator pressure until proper mapping, never mind 1.8bar.
At 1000km it's well run in so get it sorted

 

[Sam_M]

Indeed, even that small ping will kill your headgasket eventually.

I learned this the hard way on my old Charade Turbo running 2.0bar. It'd ping in the midrange very occasionally, I put off getting the map checked but then blew the headgasket. I was incredibly lucky that it was a really really minor blow that caused no damage or overheating...

 

[<tuffty/>]

Revo is generally not changeable in the normal way...

To get around the timing issue you would need to start a custom map from scratch

By boost controller I assume you mean an external controller? also pretty sure the Revo stage 3 list of hardware is for 630cc injectors not 570cc... what are the fuel trims like?

Leaning out with the onset of boost can also promote timing pull

<tuffty/>

 

[Sam_M]

@<tuffty/> can the OEM ecu be custom mapped?

 

[<tuffty/>]

@<tuffty/> can the OEM ecu be custom mapped?

Of course... all the hybrid and big turbo builds on here not running a standalone ECU are running custom maps on OE management

<tuffty/>

 

[johan(Audi s3 8l)]

Thanks for everyone reply's and prof opinions. On revo stage3 they said i had to get 550cc injectors and electronic boost controller .About custom remaps i think car performance in SA will be able to do that. Wat advantages will this have? Tuffy i will get that log on vcds so that i can work with accurate figures.

 

[johan(Audi s3 8l)]

i have turned down the car with the new motor not to damage anything. Not taking her over 1bar now. She is not running lean. egt is also low

 

[superkarl]

Wat advantages will this have? .

It will run properly.

In SA, you need to speak with a man called Miggz, a user on here.



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[Sam_M]

.About custom remaps i think car performance in SA will be able to do that. Wat advantages will this have?

The advantage is that a map will be created specifically for your modifications and and will prevent your engine going BANG.

 

[Sam_M]

Of course... all the hybrid and big turbo builds on here not running a standalone ECU are running custom maps on OE management

<tuffty/>

Cool thanks.

 

[johan(Audi s3 8l)]

Thanks yes i don't want the motor to go bang after spending all that money. So Superkarl where in the SA are you located and Miggz?


I am really happy being part of your forum for only one day and as a community on the forum i feel welcomed. Thanks for being here
for everyone and being so helpful God Bless you all

 

[<tuffty/>]

So Superkarl where in the SA are you located

about 9,000 miles away lol...

<tuffty/>

 

[superkarl]

Thanks yes i don't want the motor to go bang after spending all that money. So Superkarl where in the SA are you located and Miggz?


I am really happy being part of your forum for only one day and as a community on the forum i feel welcomed. Thanks for being here
for everyone and being so helpful God Bless you all

Unfortunately I'm not from SA, I wish.
Miggz is located in Johannesburg. He has a custom mapped A3 and runs a project called FSU developments, he will be best placed to advise on a place for custom mapping.


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[johan(Audi s3 8l)]

Ok cool thanks buddy

 

[<tuffty/>]

Wat advantages will this have?

As SK said... be mapped properly to your setup and will potentially perform better and last longer...

On revo stage3 they said i had to get 550cc injectors and electronic boost controller

If the map is scaled for 550cc then your 570's will cause the ECU to adapt out the extra... it has +/-25% tolerance but this is for protecting the engine more than giving tuners a way to mitigate bad mapping...

EBC is ok if thats all you have... this is also contributing to your timing pull as the ECU has no control over boost now... it can't apply timing/boost calcs properly now... custom mapping an EBC would get over this but there are ways to get OE management to control high boost levels in open loop conditions... I run 2bar of boost peak and have total control beyond MAP sensor range on OE management...

Just depends if whoever you take it too is familiar with the techniques and workarounds the OE management to be able to deal with it..

You can continue to use the EBC though but they tend to make part throttle a bit unpredictable... flattening the response of the throttle maps can help

<tuffty/>

 

[johan(Audi s3 8l)]

Thanks <tuffty/> , you see if you take your car to someone that are pros in that line of work they do you will most likely belief wat they say. I would rather spend the cash from the begging on a custom map then a generic one. But because i don't know i gave in on the generic map. But okay i will pull vcds log for now and i requested a quote on a remap from FSU developments (waiting for there response)

I will log the following but please tell me wat other tables to log if i miss something .

Boost And Timming
1 001-1 Engine Speed
2 003-4 ignition Timing
3 020-1 Cylinder Ignition Angle Delay (cyl 1)
4 020-2 Cylinder Ignition Angle Delay (cyl 2)
5 020-3 Cylinder Ignition Angle Delay (cyl 3)
6 020-4 Cylinder Ignition Angle Delay (cyl 4)
7 031-1 Lambda, Current Value
8 054-3 Accelerator Pedal Position
9 101-3 Injection Timing (Median)
10 114-3 Engine Load (actual)
11 115-4 Boost Pressure (Actual)

3 33 Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1
4 34 Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 2

5 Maf Airflow ( actual )
5 Maf Airflow (Requested)

 

[<tuffty/>]

You will want 001 lambda control and maybe 003 injection time

AFR you will want request as well as actual

Fuel trims don't need logging... you can just check them after the runs

Its tuffty with a 't' by the way

<tuffty/>

 

[johan(Audi s3 8l)]

Okay Your name rectified sorry for that. Ok cool i will do that.

Thanks <tuffty/>

 

[Stuart B]

I am a total beginner but what sort of Stage 3 map has ever supported 95 unleaded? I was under the impression (maybe illusion - I drink a lot) the S3 manual advised 98/99 octane once in every 4 tanks in any case for engine health.

I put 95 in my S3 on a Stage 1 map when I first bought it and melted a spark plug the next day.

 

[Stuart B]

You will want 001 lambda control and maybe 003 injection time

AFR you will want request as well as actual

Fuel trims don't need logging... you can just check them after the runs

Its tuffty with a 't' by the way

<tuffty/>

 

[badger5]

uh ho - spelt wrong.

 

[<tuffty/>]

...and two f's!

<tuffty/>

 

[JOSE8LT]

Hey Johan

Also from South Africa....

Check out our facebook page Audi A3 / S3 8L South Africa

 

[Erikn89nl]

...and two f's!

<tuffty/>

FTFY.

Also, where would @<tuffty/> be without his trusty:

 

[superkarl]

Also, where would @<tuffty/> be without his trusty:
View attachment 134552

TWO T's!!!


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[Stuart B]

TWO T's!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#lolok

 

[<tuffty/>]

Two Cats One Cup? I think thats a different discussion altogether

<tuffty/>

 

[johan(Audi s3 8l)]

Good evening guy's here is the log === vcds

This was a full pull in 3d gear

 

[<tuffty/>]

Not a very clean run... looks like you let off the throttle at 2.5k, and again at 3.5k...

Do another from 2k to as high as you feel you can safely/legally go in third gear...

If that is actually foot to the floor end to end then you have issues dude

<tuffty/>

 

[Fordy51]

You might want to consider logging a different groups like do 003, 031, 020 together and then 115, 118.

This way you'll have ignition timing included in the logs.

 

[johan(Audi s3 8l)]

Thanks for your help guys. Appreciate your time. I will log 'n new log this weekend. I work 370km from home so traveling back only on weekends. Will log Saterdag and post the new log

 

[hydro s3]

Can you do good logs with the torque app?

 

[johan(Audi s3 8l)]

Morning, i do have a payed version of torque app with the below interface and i can't get it to work on my car. On my wife's audi it works without any problems. It is not reading my ECU

 

[johan(Audi s3 8l)]

Tuffty

I saw now wat i did with the original log file . I filtered one column wrongly and it scrambled all the fields. I only drive her on weekends so i will do multiple logs.

Thanks again