Audi Pre Sense fault

Adrian76

Registered User
Hi

I have had my Audi A4 Avant very nearly 12 months now and it has been great however this morning driving to work my car just locked up, fortunately i was city driving so was not going very fast and it only actually last a few seconds but enough to put the fear in to me for the rest of the journey.

I think I am going to have to contact my local Audi Dealer to get it checked over but wondered if any of the fantastic Audi owners on here have had any experience of this?

Thanks.
Adrian
 

maui

Registered User
It sounds like it predicted a collision, could have been the camera got confused or mistook a parked car as a collision risk?

I’ve had it a handful of times but it’s unusual. With any AI logic there’s always going to be a miscalculation, but if you want peace of mind to have it checked would not hurt.
 

Adrian76

Registered User
There was no other vehicles on the road at the time, however thinking about it, it was on a 90 degree turn with glass fronted shop window, do you think it could have been the reflection of itself that caused this?
 

cosmicblue

Registered User
Sadly Audi Pre-Sense is a fault in it's own right - unpredictable actions are a feature, if there was a way of disabling it using OBD11 I'd do it.
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Mine rarely gives false responses but I do have it set to late.
Personally I feel Audi should not give us the ability to turn it off at all. It is a car and life saver...
 

jds_sg

Registered User
Sadly Audi Pre-Sense is a fault in it's own right - unpredictable actions are a feature, if there was a way of disabling it using OBD11 I'd do it.

I would tend to agree.
I have also had a few "scares" with it false triggering, mistaking traffic cones for pedestrians and the like. I also leave the warning set to late, which seems to be ok and reduce the false triggers to a minimum. In fact an Audi technician advised to do this when I originally complained about it.
 

cuke2u

Registered User
So if setting it to late has made the system ok, how can that be deduced as being a fault when the system is doing what it is designed to do?
There is no fault, maybe surprises, but technically no fault at all...
 

maui

Registered User
So, my A4 is going in for a windscreen calibration tomorrow, and the service manager said it’s getting a service campaign for ‘assistance systems’ too...

I did not enquire exactly what (might be able to get campaign code tomorrow), but might be worth calling in to see if it’s something applicable!
 

Candell

Registered User
Mine has gone off several times also, the garage told me that anything could trigger it including leaves if it's windy. On one route to my house, there is a tree almost in the road which sets the pre sense off every time. If I go that way, I have to turn it off.

It is a huge shock when it happens to you though, I gave the guy a scare behind me once when it happened. If he hadn't reacted quickly enough and smalled his own brakes on, I'm not sure where I'd sit liability wise?!?!?!
 

sunshinewelly

Registered User
I have the warning come on now and again but at no stage has the car applied the brakes itself. I just have a beep and a warning notice on the dashboard
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Quite, if the system feels you are in control it will only ping as a warning. The only time I have experienced any braking was when I stupidly hurtled around a blind bend at silly speeds only to have stationary cars yards in front. The system performed as it should, applied the brakes immediately and tightened my seat belt. In that instance it was a car saver with no drama.

If you are hit from behind because they guy is too close then it is obvious who is at fault. If all cars had this system then there would be no problem and I have no doubt that when they become mandatory this will be a life saver...
 

SMI77

Australia
...If you are hit from behind because they guy is too close then it is obvious who is at fault.....
Trust me, if you have ever been hit from behind by a 8 tonne truck with enough knots to cause a write-off, who is at fault is totally irrelevant.
Pre-sense, particularly with the current inane parameters, is unnecessarily dangerous.
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Obviously presence is a matter of opinion and for my driving it is fine. Perhaps for those who enjoy a more 'spirited' drive then maybe not. But then however I seem to drive I get very few false reactions from it, only the time when it protected me from rear ending other vehicles, thus protecting myself, my car, other cars and their occupants. The general consensus is it is positive technology to have on a car and, as stated, if all vehicles had it the the world of driving would be a far safer place.
It is technology that will also become mandatory on all new vehicles in 2020, until then it can still be disabled with a few presses...
 

BoxerBoi76

Registered User
So, my A4 is going in for a windscreen calibration tomorrow, and the service manager said it’s getting a service campaign for ‘assistance systems’ too...

I did not enquire exactly what (might be able to get campaign code tomorrow), but might be worth calling in to see if it’s something applicable!
Hey, new 2019 A4 owner here - is there a way to tell which service bulletins/campaigns have been completed on mine?

Bbx
 

cosmicblue

Registered User
Hey, new 2019 A4 owner here - is there a way to tell which service bulletins/campaigns have been completed on mine?
Bbx

Ask your local friendly dealer to check for you. Leave it to mid-morning when they tend not to be quite so manic.
 

cosmicblue

Registered User
In looking for the Pre-Sense settings I see there is the option to turn it off - done.
 

cuke2u

Registered User
It will come back on gain whenyou next do a hard reset of the ignition.
Unfortunately Audi owners aren't alone in thinking these systems are intrusive but they are here so we just need to deal with it...
 

PhilM

Registered User
For you guys with bad experiences of pre sense, do your cars have the adaptive cruise etc with the radars on the front bumper?

I’ve only had my s4 just over a week, and it doesn’t have any adaptive cruise radars etc (though it does have the camera for Matrix headlights)....so I assume Pre-Sense basic; which by default is set to Medium in the MMI.

Now when I check the manual it states;

Pre Sense Basic; Tensions Belts, Closes Windows and Sunroofs and Activates Hazard Lights.

Pre Sense Front; “ The pre sense front system uses the data from the adapt ive cruise control* radar sensors and the camera to calculate the probab ility of a collision.....

If needed, it can initiate a partial or full deceleration to reduce the collision speed or to avoid the collision under certain circumstances . In conjunct ion with pre sense basic/rear, the front safety belts are also reversiblytensioned when needed . The pre sense front is also active when adapt ive cruise control* is switched off.”

So the manual implies that only cars with pre sense front (ie with ACC) can have braking done for you. Is that the case?

I think I’ll be more surprised if I get a pre sense braking event that the car actually may do it when the manual suggests it won’t as the only sensors my car has are ultrasonic parking sensors (F&R), Matrix Lights Windscreen Camera and Reversing Camera - not the ACC radar or Side Assist radars.

Do you all have the radars fitted?
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Mine is in my sig, thus I have Presense City:
Audi seem to like to confuse us by giving the systems different names and descriptions. However all cars have Presense Basic:
A4 pre sense city
All of the versions of the new models include the safety system Audi pre sense city as standard equipment. At speeds of up to 85 km/h (52.8 mph), the system scans the road for other vehicles and pedestrians using a windshield-mounted front camera with a range of up to 100 meters (328.1 ft). If there is the threat of a collision, the driver receives a series of warnings, and if necessary the car starts to apply the brakes fully. At speeds up to 40 km/h (24.9 ft), it can fully prevent accidents within the system limits. At higher speeds up to 85 km/h (52.8 mph), warnings and brake intervention can reduce the impact velocity.

The optional Audi pre sense basic works with information from a variety of different vehicle systems. Once it detects unstable driving conditions, it initiates preventive measures to protect the occupants. The front seat belts are electrically tightened, and the windows and sunroof are closed. The hazard lights are also activated.

If a collision cannot be prevented and an accident is inevitable, the multicollision brake assist system supports the driver with controlled application of the brakes. This can help to prevent the car from skidding, which prevents further collisions.

Another standard system in the new Audi A4 and A4 Avant is attention assist, a component of the driver information system. It analyses driver behavior and issues a warning when it detects that the driver is becoming inattentive. The adjustable speed limiter, a standard feature, can be set to a particular speed ranging from 30 to 250 km/h (18.6 to 155.3 mph) – a very helpful tool for maintaining speed within city limits, in construction areas, and so on
 
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cuke2u

Registered User
Apologies seems like I confused myself and typo's crept in, I meant to write that all A4 models have Presense City..
 

PhilM

Registered User
Thanks for that explanation - doh, I thought I’d somehow escaped the PreSense saga by not having the other stuff, seems weird they put PS City at the end of the chapter, I’d discounted that after skipping past PS Front and PS Rear which all require options, so assumed City was the same without reading it.

Ohwell, I’ll keep my fingers crossed then like the rest of you that if it happens there’s no one on my bumper at the time!
 

scotty76

Registered User
@cuke2u just to point out if you view this on a phone you don't see any signatures so people may be unaware ... "Mine is in my sig, thus I have Presense City:"

I didn't know this until I started using my phone more. HTH.

Screenshot_20190421-190316~2.png
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Yes this I am aware of, I have been around forums for quite some time ;-) however I pointed it out in case anyone wished to view it using a more 'normal' method..
 
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Nick_B

Registered User
Hi

I have had my Audi A4 Avant very nearly 12 months now and it has been great however this morning driving to work my car just locked up, fortunately i was city driving so was not going very fast and it only actually last a few seconds but enough to put the fear in to me for the rest of the journey.

I think I am going to have to contact my local Audi Dealer to get it checked over but wondered if any of the fantastic Audi owners on here have had any experience of this?

Thanks.
Adrian

I have had some spurious warnings, however today whilst trickling along in slow moving traffic the system decided a full on emergency stop was required. Quite unnerving.....
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Not had that before, what setting is the presense on?
 

Nick_B

Registered User
Not had that before, what setting is the presense on?

It was on the default 'medium' setting. I guess a system that is based on a camera and some interpretation of the external environment can never be 100% accurate, however this gave me quite a shock especially as I was a good distance from the car in in-fount. It also has the potential to cause a rear end collision.

I am almost at 14,000 miles and this is the first time this has happened.
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Try setting it to late, as mine is then...
 

Wugeng Lee

Registered User
Hi,
My son just crashed my 2018 Audi A4 with Pre Sense Basic and City. $20K damage in the front! No air bug deployed. It happened on a highway during morning rush hour in heavy traffic. He was driving around 40MPH, traffic slow down and he did not realize until it was too late. He braked hard, but the auto brake never kicked in... Has anyone else experienced something similar or is able to clarify how this could have happened?
Thanks in advance.
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Presense cannot replace human ability, more than likely it detected some avoidance inputs into the controls. The other thing is that some presense systems only work up to certain speeds...
 

Paul Golding

Registered User
I must admit I assumed pre-sense "city" would only work at slow speeds, primarily to help avoid hitting the odd pedestrian that walks in front of you whilst looking at their phone with earphones on.

Until last week, (and thanks to seeing a post ages ago by Cuke2u, I have set to "late") I'd only had the thing give a warning a few times, always near a crossing with someone walking quickly towards the curb. Pretty clever really. But last week, I had the thing do a full blown emergency stop from around 25mph for no apparent reason. I instantly looked in the rear mirror whilst simultaneously trying not to actually sh1t myself as the truck behind me filled the mirror. I'm still certain there was no nearby hazard, though I guess pre-sense is there to save the day when we don't see something.

To make matters worse, my wife then had a go at me for driving like a pratt and braking too late:tearsofjoy:
 

Richard46

Registered User
Thankfully I do not have this nonsense option, going to sound like a tech phobe (I am not) but I would not tolerate anything controlling the application of my brakes that was capable of any mistake, certainly not mistakes as frequent as described here.
I say frequent in comparison with my own record of never failing to brake in time over 50 years and what half a million miles driven.
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Unfortunately if you purchase a vehicle in the next few years you'll have no choice as these systems will become mandatory. Personally I find mine totally unobtrusive if I work with the systems not against them...
 

Wugeng Lee

Registered User
It happened due to your son not paying attention. Pre sense can't defeat basic physics of braking.
That is why you call it is an accident. Also, braking is not physics, it is a human behavior. The whole point of a system like Pre Sense is to do the braking for the human when it "foresee" an collision while the human did not. If manufacture charge money for this system, it should be working.
 

alFR

Registered User
Hi,
My son just crashed my 2018 Audi A4 with Pre Sense Basic and City. $20K damage in the front! No air bug deployed. It happened on a highway during morning rush hour in heavy traffic. He was driving around 40MPH, traffic slow down and he did not realize until it was too late. He braked hard, but the auto brake never kicked in... Has anyone else experienced something similar or is able to clarify how this could have happened?
Thanks in advance.
Pre-sense basic only tightens the seatbelts, closes windows and turns on the hazard lights - it doesn't brake. Pre-sense city should have braked for him if he was going under 85km/h, but the list of situations in which it might not work in the manual is pretty long so it's entirely possible that some environmental condition stopped it working. It's a driver assistance system, not a full autonomous driving system, as it clearly says in the manual.
 

Wugeng Lee

Registered User
Pre-sense basic only tightens the seatbelts, closes windows and turns on the hazard lights - it doesn't brake. Pre-sense city should have braked for him if he was going under 85km/h, but the list of situations in which it might not work in the manual is pretty long so it's entirely possible that some environmental condition stopped it working. It's a driver assistance system, not a full autonomous driving system, as it clearly says in the manual.
You are correct. But I cannot image why it should not work in such a common situation. BTW, Audi send an expert pull some data from the air bag module, I hope they will share their findings with me. The question is: is it just Audi? or all the "drive assistance system", without the adaptive cruse control capability, are just gimmicks that are not working in the real world. Then what's the point for government to mandate them?
 

pagenotfound

Registered User
You are correct. But I cannot image why it should not work in such a common situation. BTW, Audi send an expert pull some data from the air bag module, I hope they will share their findings with me. The question is: is it just Audi? or all the "drive assistance system", without the adaptive cruse control capability, are just gimmicks that are not working in the real world. Then what's the point for government to mandate them?

They are driver assistants, not driver replacements. They reduce the chance of accidents occurring but don't claim to eliminate them entirely, hence the disclaimers in the handbook. They are mandated because the goal of regulators is to reduce the risk of death or serious injury and this is just one of many ways of achieving that. None of these systems are infallible and still require driver attention at all times. The problem I see with these systems is that they allow a driver to become complacent about the effectiveness of the system so they pay less attention and when the system deactivates or fails to respond the driver doesn't have the situational awareness to respond in time. With Tesla calling their assistants an "autopilot" that complacency has been seen to have far more severe consequences.

Just be grateful that the other passive safety systems in your car prevented serious injury to your son. At least there wasn't a Takata airbag blasting shrapnel at him.
 

cuke2u

Registered User
The issue is there are currently different systems, ranging from the most basic of just a camera to the more sophisticated which use both camera's and radar. Then there are the controllers themselves which also vary in sophistication.
https://www.thatcham.org/what-we-do/car-safety/autonomous-emergency-braking/

Until these systems are standardised then there will always be a difference in their performances....
 
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