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Audi biTDI remap results

Ewyna Nov 18, 2017

  1. Ewyna

    Ewyna New Member

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    Hello , just want to share my results of remapping the 3.0 bitdi engine . I am very happy with the results. They are achieved with DPF on
    . I am considering going next further by removing the DPF getting rs6 airbox and k &n filter , new inter cooler such as wanger . Only worried that id get alot of black smoke with no dpf. Considering to hybrid the larger turbo in order to run higher pressure to reduce the smoke . With those mods 450 bhp and 900 nm with no lag increase and no gearbox/ engine problems should be achievable. I would like to retain the dpf but according to my tuner thats the limiting factor and with all those mods if i keep the dpf i wouldnt be able to achive much more than simple stage 1.

    Another needed mod in my opinion is TCU remap or upgrade, i feel like gearing isnt thought out that well.

    Current results are stock: 313 hp 650 nm to -> 378 hp 790 nm
     

    Attached Files:

  2. The Black Panther

    The Black Panther Adventurer !

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    Seem my specs below.
     
  3. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro TDi

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    Intercooler make is Wagner not "Wanger" LOL .
    You can get a pretty smokeless tune without a DPF if your tuner spends some time with it and knows what he is doing.
     
  4. The Black Panther

    The Black Panther Adventurer !

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    You dont have to remove the DPF top reach the the 450 bhp mark. The only reason i had mine moved was that my previous tuner who mapped my engine cooked the DPF and it started throwing up fault and particulate lights. Audi detected my tune and void my warranty.
    So my options new DPF and they are not cheap or DPF surgery. Surgery it was then.

    Also my tuner JDR in Holland verified that the DPF was cooked ( i was present in the workshop) by the makeup of the DPF material it should excess heat and overcooking.

    https://www.facebook.com/JDEngineering.nl/ you'll find Stg3 with DPF intact and also taken away.
     
  5. The Black Panther

    The Black Panther Adventurer !

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    FYI
    Reported times are 0-60 mph @4.1 secs. I haven't personally recorded my car times as i don't have an accurate means.


    The part number of the K&N air filter is: E-1983 (audi S6 or A6 3.0tfsi) Takes 15 mins to fit
    The airbox is from a RS6 (part number 4G0 133 836 AF). Takes 15 mins to fit
    And the wagner Intercooler for an 3.0 tdi Biturbo 313HP. http://www.wagner-tuning.uk/200001103.html Takes 2 -3 hrs to fit

    The costs for software is € 1750,- incl. tax. (€ 1446,- excl tax) at Jd engineering in Holland
     
  6. The Black Panther

    The Black Panther Adventurer !

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    Stage 3 with Bitdi can reach 4.1 sec

    Tuner measure the test with VCDS cable and software, Available from Ross-Tech.
     
  7. Ewyna

    Ewyna New Member

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    I dont see how its possible to keep DPF intact and tune to over 450 bhp . There will be heat issues with the exhaust.. also u will feel the exhaust heat in the cabin too pritty sure...
     
  8. The Black Panther

    The Black Panther Adventurer !

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    Its possible to do. No extra heat in the cabin is felt unless your running at 186 mph on the autobahn for 30 miles :)

     
  9. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User Audi A4 quattro TDi

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    @Mr AUDI been on independent dyno yet?
    450hp with dpf? really?
    I've seen some shocking work recently whereby 'tuners' are readjusting the egt sensor calibration so as far as the ECU and VCDS is concerned EGT's are low but in reality they are much higher. They do this to prevent egt limiter pulling fuel.

    Cheers
    Bobby
     
  10. The Black Panther

    The Black Panther Adventurer !

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    How’s the new space shuttle design ? Have you bought a BITDI yet :welcoming:
     
  11. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User Audi A4 quattro TDi

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    I really can't believe you are worried about cabin heat over melting the turbine haha
    I don't need a bi turbo - I make more with a single unit ;)
     
  12. The Black Panther

    The Black Panther Adventurer !

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    :footy: Yes that would figure seeing as you single handedly designed and built the space shuttle all by yourself :haha: :welcoming: :welcoming:
    Once your ready to contribute to a unit you actually own or are in a position to invest in we will await your next post !! :chuncky: Until then stick to the single turbo units old bean :blow:

     
  13. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User Audi A4 quattro TDi

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    Space shuttle? What are you talking about?
    Before you start telling people you can get 450hp from a bi turbo with a dpf (actually even without its not possible) you should really get your facts straight.
    It obvious you have no real idea about fuel required to make 450hp/900nm and the heat it generates.
     
  14. The Black Panther

    The Black Panther Adventurer !

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    Bobby there is no point coming onto my posts picking fault all the time and its not the first time you have appeared on these post enviously googling the chat on these engines. Its not anyone else's fault but your own if you feel so unhappy about other people obtaining high BHP and torque figures on their cars especially the BITDI team which you seem to want to beat down for some abstract reason. Its just embarrassing not to mention ludicrous especially as you claim to have 440 BHP from your single turbo ancient 3.0 TDI :welcoming:. You cant have it both ways saying only old fashion technology can obtain high BHP and the modern day evolved sequential turbo diesel engines cant and it must be some sort of lie or conspiracy. Get a grip, do some actual research as you are just kinda look daft right now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  15. Ewyna

    Ewyna New Member

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    I actually spoke with my tunners , they said the most u can get out with a dpf /egr delete on the bitdi is around 400 hp at best. FMIC upgrade is mandatory in this car if u want to go more obv and hybrid bigger turbo. Its not possible to go above this point with DPF/EGR . The stock exhaust system is good enough only thing u need to remove is dpf/egr . Heat issue is huge even with intercooler upgrade its not possible to reach this numbers with dpf. Also their advice was to not go for 450 hp on stock turbo as well :).
    Also about smoke tunes , yes you can tune the car to be smokeless but u wont be able to extract the maximum. Thats where hybrid turbo comes into play more pressure less smoke. Also in my country to hybrid the bigger turbo is around 1000-1500 euro, at this price is simply pointless to try to push the stock turbo to 450 hp.
    Also about single turbo making 440 hp its possible , here we have some a6 pushing over 500 + on single turbo 3.0 tdi.
     
    Misikee likes this.
  16. The Black Panther

    The Black Panther Adventurer !

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    Your tuner is incorrect and i had similar advice from other tuners and it was proven incorrect.

    Have look at the link below for expert BITDI tuners.
    They have tuned over 200 BITDI.

    What country are you in ?

    https://www.facebook.com/JDEngineer...xOqPdH3gjZ7Zg_YfuJH669QngzqLdMeCTI73ROikHVD1s


     
  17. Ewyna

    Ewyna New Member

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    JDEngineering is the only tuner that claims those results are possible . I belive that their tuned cars hit 450 hp on their own dyno but i would like to see the same car tested at diffrent dyno. I have talked with quite few tuners and non of them think those results are possible on stock config. Also if u are running 450 hp u should probably look in transmision map which would help u out to unleash the true potential of the car .The gear box mapping is horrible in the BiTDI even my q7 4.2 tdi ( 2012 year) gear box feels better ( its zf 8 speed again ). Also my q7 is mapped to 420 bhp and 930-40 nm and thats bigger engine.
     
    Devilz and bobby singh like this.
  18. The Black Panther

    The Black Panther Adventurer !

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    My car isn't stock look at the signature. Jd are the only ones doing this yes. They tune 20 cars a week on average from porsche, audi and Volk /seat group. They have a very well respected reputation. I think if they were fiddling the dyno output the 7-800 cars the tune each year at least one of the them would spot the discrepancy on output. Look at their feedback on Facebook post i haven't found one customer saying anything bad.
    No one else i could find can tune the BITDI like this.
    Regarding the gearbox it takes a bit of getting use to all the extra power and gearbox gear change relationship as the mix has changed but my gearbox is in dynamic sport mode all the time and the secret for getting the car to utilise all those extra horses and torque successfully is using the flappy paddles to change at exactly the right time and keep on the torque and power curves its addictive. My car might be an 8 speed auto but im using the flappy paddles 90% of the time and rarely let it use the auto change.

     
  19. The Black Panther

    The Black Panther Adventurer !

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    Tonight after being away from car for 5 weeks i tested the new OBD2 tool for measuring 0-60 times. It was a wet night. Temperature 7.5 degrees centigrade.

    • 3.902 secs
    • 3.997 secs
    • 4.139 secs

    IMG_8502.jpg IMG_8501.jpg IMG_8507.jpg IMG_8504.jpg
     
  20. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro TDi

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    Those OBD2 tools are pretty useless for measuring 0-60 and acceleration times accurately. The sample rate is just not high enough and the speed readings are innacurate.
    Just look at the results.
    0-20 mph in 0.288s is nearly 3.2g acceleration lol
    On the second run it took 3.159 seconds to get to 40mph then only another 0.838 seconds to get from 40-60
    On the fastest first run it took 1.8 seconds to get to 40, and another 2.1 seconds to get to 60. ??

    A road car is lucky to accelerate at anything much more than 1g . A Tesla doing 0-60 in 2.6 seconds is an average of 1.05 G acceleration.
    The main problem is the timing doesn't start accurately when the car starts moving. That's why the 0-20 times are silly. Also the speeds are determined by the wheel speed sensors, with wheel spin/slip these are innacurate.
    I would guesstimate the actual 0-60 times were more like 4.5s
    something like a V-BOX samples at 20 times a second and is GPS accurate.
    Or get yourself to a quarter mile run what you brung.

    http://www.smartconversion.com/unit_calculation/Acceleration_calculator.aspx
     
  21. The Black Panther

    The Black Panther Adventurer !

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    Hello desert storm,

    If you can answer sequentially as i have written down

    • These OB2 are " pretty useless " and have " inaccurate speed ". Define the term useless ( tolerance ) and reference the actual maths to being able to accurately say this ? At the the moment it looks like opinion on your side. It might not be but evidence to back up helps a lot in validation.
    • Some people have the opposite opinion from yours. Which person is accurate ?[​IMG]
    • On the third run it took 3.159 seconds to get to 40mph then only another 0.838 seconds to get from 40-60 - this is an error because each segment 0-20, 20-40 -, 40-60, 60-100 needs to be reset before each run - the circle with the arrow on it is the rest toggle. I noticed the error on 3.159 seconds as well after i posted up to get to 40mph time. I did not do a reset on the 40 mph section.
    • I would guesstimate the actual 0-60 times were more like 4.5s - based on what maths ?
    What would you suggest to get an accurate 0-60 ? V box i dont know anyone who has one including the local tuner. Getting to a drag strip is not so easy for me to get the time to do. What are the option ?


     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  22. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User Audi A4 quattro TDi

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    Mr Audi well done for attempting to do some timed runs.
    Maybe someone local has a vcds cable?
    If so log the car timed run using vehicle speed & rpm. You can group uds lables and select “turbo” function to increase the sample rate.

    You can normally log 8 channels with a sample rate of 5hz.

    So maybe add:
    mean injected quantity
    Lambda
    Rail pressure
    Egt
     
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  23. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro TDi

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    Hi, I said they were innacurate and pretty usesless because they are compared to something like a V-box especially with a car that will be accelerating quickly. I don't need maths to prove that, common sense and a bit of knowledge is more than enough.
    Plus I have seen several reviews where these apps have been measured against a V-box and they pretty much always exagerate the performance of the car, some more than others.
    The evidence is in the results you posted. 0-20mph times are clearly wrong, have a look at this review of an RS6 and R8 using V-BOX figures.
    http://www.evo.co.uk/audi/r8/14173/audi-r8-v-audi-rs6-audi-r8-v-audi-rs6
    On a perfectly dry track the 0-30 time is around 1.6-1.7 seconds , your results are saying you are getting to 20mph in under 0.3s :whistle2: . Even the 0.8s time to 20mph is too quick for the car and the conditions. That's 1.14g acceleration .
    I forgot to link the calculator I used earlier.

    http://www.smartconversion.com/unit_calculation/Acceleration_calculator.aspx

    Running 0-30 in 1.6s is 0.85G acceleration a more sensible value, even assuming you could attain this value in the wet to get to 20mph would take around 1.1 s . As I said the big issue with the apps is detecting the actual point when you start moving and starting the timer correctly at that point.
    My guess and it is purely a guess was based on the fact that a more reasonable time for the 0-20 was around 1.1 - 1.2 seconds , adding the difference between that and the 0-20 time to the final time gives a ball park figure.
    So the one run that appeared to be the slowest at 4.1s was probably in reality the quickest. with a 0.8s time to 20 that was around 0.4s too quick. Add 0.4 onto 4.1 gives 4.5s.
    The run with a 0.3s 0-20 is around 0.8s too fast so add that onto 3.9s = 4.7s
     
  24. The Black Panther

    The Black Panther Adventurer !

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    Bobby thanks i can get these values for you as the app offers all the below apart from the mean inject quantity. it may offer that but i did see it i need more time with app.
    Im just home after being away for 5 weeks. Im back for a week and then away to for another bloody 10 weeks solid.
    Ill try and bring the values up you requested asap.

     
  25. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR VCDS Map User Audi A4 quattro TDi

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    I would still try and locate a VCDS cable if possible you can then export the data into a csv for studying and sharing.
    Maybe do 0 to 120 test you'll cover all the common base lines in one run.
     

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