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Audi A3 S3 Concert II > RNSD Satnav Wiring Loom Issues PLEASE HELP ME

AviatorRichards3 Jan 23, 2015

  1. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    Hi everyone

    I hope someone can shed some light on this most frustrating of issue...I do aplologise for the long-winded explanation below

    I have read through various threads and still cannot solve my problem, so let me try and explain.

    I have a 2002 S3 8L which had concert II radio system in it. I had always wanted to get hold of a RNSD nav unit, and when the opportunity arose, I did so. and managed to get the rare A3/S3 unit. here is the thread of fitting - http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...stalled-in-a-2002-audi-s3.181258/#post1797199

    NOW MY ISSUE
    Ever since the installation I lost all radio signal...and to me, this was very important.

    The leads on the back of my Concert II system:

    IMG_0668.JPG

    Now only two out of the three leads that were in the concert II system fit into the RNSD unit, (the two black ones) and the first issue was: it has not button lights, as the power feed for this was from the third red plug (apparently), and unfortunately this plug does not fit in. I took a power feed off something else and managed to insert into correct plug, and lights are now on....BUT STILL NO RADIO (obviously I am plugging the two aerial leads in as well)

    This is the back of my RNSD Unit:

    IMG_0669.JPG

    I have spoken to many different people, some saying the unit itself is broken, others saying it could even be the rear heater elements on the rear windscreen being broken. So I checked those and no cracks or splits....and I have the FM booster attached to the windscreen which is normal for the audi A3 range.

    Trying to eliminate different things, I made a make shift aerial and tried it, and got a few radio stations, but nothing solid and lost it again when the car started to move.

    Jumping forward to yesterday, I had a couple of friends who are electrically minded, come over and see if they could shed some light on whats going on. immediately it was clear that I did not have the normal wiring loom plugs that would make this unit work properly, and that a the top plug on the unit is the one that should be empty, NOT the middle one. This was backed up by the fact that he came in a 2001 MK4 Golf, and we decided to try the unit in his car (this would allow me to see if the unit itself was working), and onced fired up, it worked perfectly on all radio stations tried.

    Now the difference with his car was that he did not have the larger black plug, he just had one red and two of the smaller black plugs. So the bottom and the middle sockets on the unit were filled, leaving the top empty, and this is what worked. on mine is was different, the middle was empty, and the top and bottom are filled.....

    So now my question: Does anyone know of a wiring harness/loom/ ISO connector that would reduce the larger of my black plugs into the same size as the middle female socket on my rnsd unit?

    Or if im barking up the wrong tree there, does anyone know of the correct ISO to use, so that I can have the radio working....as I believe that because the plug leaves the middle socket out...this is why it does not work...could be to do with the aerial needing a power feed as well, and this would all come from having it in the middle plug, not top and bottom

    being a novice in this area, just typing things into Google, it I have stumbled across a few things:

    PC9-410 - http://www.halfords.com/sat-nav-aud...pc9-404-pc9-410-audi-iso-lead-harness-adaptor

    SOT-1002

    pc9 406

    cx-311 - http://www.navlinkz.de/en/Interface...udi/CAN-bus/Loom-for-CX-311-BP-Audi-oxid.html

    Have also tried this: http://88.150.164.31/browseManufacturer.aspx

    Here are some pictures of the back of the concert II system and then the concert on top of the RNSD so you can compare sockets:

    IMG_0670.JPG

    IMG_0673.JPG

    Again apologies about writing an essay but im I wasn't really to sure on how to get my problem across

    Many thanks in advance

    Anton
     
  2. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    Your larger black plug looks like a combined mini-ISO plug, which has line-out signals that connect your speakers to an amp, probably the one inside the subwoofer, if that's all stock. The middle socket is for the ISO speaker plug, which is used to connect speakers directly to the head unit's pre-amplified outputs. You don't need to have anything plugged in there for your system, and it has no impact on radio signal.

    I've checked the wiring diagrams for the plugs that go into your head-unit, and as far as I can tell none of the plugs have anything to do with the radio signal. This just leaves the aerial connection (blue square on the pic below) as a suspect. I do know that the original headunit has a built-in aerial amplifier, which after-market units don't have. I had very poor reception on my JVC unit, until I installed an aerial amplifier. It connects to the switched 12V output on the bottom ISO plug (usually blue, number 4 of the bottom plug in the diagram below).

    iso.gif

    I myself use this one: http://www.ebay.de/itm/VW-AUDI-FORD...639559384?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item3ceaeed8d8

    For the navigation to work, I believe you need an adapter loom to convert the red 10-pin connector into a circular one (red circle on pic below). I know I've seen it somewhere while researching this issue for you, but I can't seem to find it anymore...
    *edit* I've just seen that this may also be handled through the big black plug you've got, it's vehicle dependent as that plug is not standardized. So if everything else works, never mind this part of my reply ;-)

    rnsd.png

    Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2015
    AviatorRichards3 likes this.
  3. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    Dear Erikn89nl

    Firstly thank you so much for replying, and for your detailed explanations...it is really appreciated

    I will also say: please excuse any electrical ignorance that shows through some of the questions that I will undoubtedly ask you...

    Re the sub in the boot, yes its all standard, and un-modified..and of course this is the genuine unit that "should" work with this car.

    Okay thats good to know that the middle one is not needed after all, as I was lead to believe it was...(strange how when we plugged it into a mk4 golf, it was the middle and bottom plug that came from his car into the unit, and radio signal was perfect), so thats the only reason why I thought I had something missing...

    So to clarify on what you have said above: The Ariel should not be affected by any of the black/red plugs that go into the back, its the circular plug (blue square) that is the issue.

    Although I didnt realise this, it does kind of makes more logical sense in my head...as I couldn't understand why the aerials were even there, if the bigger plugs affected signal. my only conclusion was that ome of them (I thought perhaps the middle one which I didnt have) must be providing some sort of power amplification or something to an internal amplifier.

    Thanks for the link, if it works for you, then I think I will go for it...although I will try ebay uk, not .de first haha ;)

    Re the navigation, were you talking about the lighting on the buttons, or the actual navigation itself?


    The original concert II system had what I believe is two aerial plugs in it. The one already mentioned (blue square) and the yellowe round socket in the pictures just right of centre.

    Now the yellow socket I believe is also on the RNSD unit, but this is where it gets confusing...as what goes into the yellow socket on the concert unit, can go into two places on the RNSD unit (apologies if this is not clear btw). The first place is just to the right hand side of the lower small fan...where the red square is. the second place is the top right hand corner behind the plastic clip which swivels to hold the wire connector in place. Now I assume one should be GPS and the other...we I guessed the second aerial.

    I will also add that the so called second aerial from what I can see, is the one connected to my rear heated screen...

    Would you know which socket the second aerial should go in, and which the GPS socket is? (I purchased an external "puck" type gps aerial when I changed units, although strangely my car already had satnav built into it..but the kind that comes into the dashboard with arrows on the trip computer (my roof mounted aerial says GPS on it)

    Many thanks

    Anton
     
  4. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    Second aerial, with the smaller connector, is the GPS aerial, I believe. I'd plug it into the socket that isn't blocked off with a clip, first.
    So that'll sort out the GPS reception for the navigation, but the big red plug you have is what I believe to be the connection to the navigation disk with the maps on it. Can you confirm if navigation is working on the unit?
     
  5. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    right okay...

    it does work, Its intermittent...it often looses signal and then sticks on the place where it lost signal (often my house)

    The puck after-market aerial is just placed behind the unit, with a very long wire which then goes into the unit. I originally had the puck aerial clip in the socket underneath the black plastic bit top right, and the aerial #2 going into the socket next to the bottom fan...the other side to the first larger aerial socket.

    I will say that the other nav in the dashboard, works perfectly, and very well...although again still a bit of a pain to use, so a iphone is much quicker

    DSCN1634.JPG

    DSCN1637.JPG

    Now the nav disc player in the boot, feeds the navigation in my dash board

    DSCN1639.JPG

    where as the RNSD unit has a dvd slot in the facia where the navigation disc lives, so its built in....so that again puzzles me as to what the red clip is for :/
     
  6. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    Ok, the reason the after-market aerial has such a long wire attached, is because it needs to have an unobstructed field of vision to the sky, for best signal. So it's supposed to go on the windscreen, I reckon. That's probably why it's got intermittent signal.

    Did the previous head-unit have any navigation info displayed on it, which mirrored the nav on the DIS?
     
  7. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    Nope, the old concert 2 system had nothing to do with navigation at all...it all came through the dash

    The only thing it had which I have also lost, was the steering wheel controls for radio

    But even when I plug the old concert 2 unit back in..for some reason they dont work anymore
     
  8. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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  9. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    Yep, looks like the same thing. So, aside from intermittent GPS reception and a lack of radio reception, is there anything wrong with the RNS-D?

    I've no idea on the steering wheel radio controls, that's something I am looking to install on mine some day ;-)
     
  10. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    Great, well i shall go ahead and get one then

    Nope nothing, its perfect and really transforms the look of the car

    Everything seems to work as it should...I just want radio back, so I hope this piece of equipment will do the trick.

    Haha okay no worries, its been 2 years of not working now, so ive got used to it not working

    I will say that one starnge thing is that the radio station used to come up on the trip computer, (with the older radio, as all three plugs were clipped in) but with the RNSD it doesnt come up in the dash...

    I assume getting this bit of kit wont affect that coming up would it :) I would love it to...
     
  11. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, I'd expect the large plug to handle that somehow. Maybe that's what the red one does? Only reference I've found to it says it's for navigation, but as you said, the old head-unit didn't have anything to do with nav..
     
  12. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    yee...very odd...thats why I think something in the middle black plug controls that...but ive purchased that piece, so will keep you posted as to whether it changes anything (radio signal-wise)...fingers crossed.

    thanks for all your help buddy :)

    p.s. if you find anything else out, please let me know

    good luck with fitting the steering wheel controls :p
     
  13. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    Well the ISO amplifier came today, fitted it..turned on hoping for radio signal to come flooding back again..and nothing..it was as if I didnt have an Ariel at all...

    Very strange....not going to cry over £3 but cannot understand why that didnt work..do you have any ideas on that my friend?

    Could it be that the number 4 terminal on the bottom black black isnt a power feed for the blue wire on the amplifier?
     
  14. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    Can you measure the voltage on the number 4 terminal, while the radio is on?
     
  15. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    Silly question now :think: as its only one terminal, is it positive or negative? I was a little confused as to how the amp gets power as there is only one blue wire, not a red and a black...

    Yes I will measure it now, but connecting only the positive side or neg to my volt meter wont do anything...I need to complete the circuit
     
  16. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    Not 100% sure how it works, but I guess the aerial is grounded which provides the current path...
    Try measuring between the 12V terminal and the nearest ground point, or chassis, I suppose...
     
  17. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    okay im getting 0.12 V out of that socket....and thats with me touching the outside of the car with the other lead

    That seems awfully low
     
  18. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure you set the correct scale on the voltmeter? Seems curious for it to be the right number, at the wrong decimal...
     
  19. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    Here is a picture of what setting its on..and what I just got from it when doing it again (it seems to fluctuate between 0.03 and 0.12

    IMG_0692.JPG
     
  20. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    Just to check, you have the head-unit on, and are measuring on the head-unit side?
     
  21. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    Yes, head unit it on, and I am attaching the terminal vie a wire that ive placed into socket number 4 on the bottom plug, and then holding the wire end and the terminal from the volt meter in one hand, and touching the other end of the meter to the car, making sure I dont touch both end with my hands at the same time to get a false reading and or shock.

    I am touching one of the ends with me hands whilst doing this if that makes a difference?
     
  22. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    Stumbled onto this picture, maybe this'll help:
    rns-d-49173322235077780.jpg
    Specifically, where it says it has 2 antenna inputs. Probably will need an adapter for that, unless you have a second antenna plug.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
  23. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    Interesting picture.

    I mentions system 1 and system 2...system 2 being 2002+

    My car is 2002, I couldnt tell you whether the unit itself is 2002 on earlier

    when you say adaptor, there is already a plug going into both of those sockets from my car...or do you mean I have to find a way of maing the left hand one go into both of them?
     
  24. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    Can you take a picture of all the wiring that's in your dash?
     
  25. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    Yes no problem. To confirm, do you mean all the wires that are plugged into the back of the unit....?
     
  26. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    All the wires that you have available to connect to it
     
  27. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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  28. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    You may ask about the blue-tak...this was in place to hold the additional wire I added to get the button backlights working....serious bodge but it has worked well so far
     
  29. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    All connections seem to be ok... I really don't know what else it could be, other than a wiring issue in the aerial wiring somewhere.
    Were you measuring voltage from that blu-tacked plug earlier?
     
  30. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    Nope, I was taking it from the number 4 plug from your diagram.

    Although the bluetacked plug looks like most of the sockets are covers, I was actually only trying to cover one...as the wire goes into (from your diagram) number #6 on the bottom black plug...and ive tapped the power line from the cigarette lighter feed...as then the dimming works with my normal controls as well
     
  31. AviatorRichards3

    AviatorRichards3 Member

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    Do you think I should try the blue wire from the amplifier in a different socket on the bottom plug? perhaps #6?

    I dont want to short circuit anything though haha :sob:
     
    ilknur07 likes this.
  32. ilknur07

    ilknur07 Member

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    Great job AvitorRichards. Thanks to shearing your experience. Just one question to you. Are rear door speakers working? I also changed concert 2 to RNSE, but rear door speakers not working. From here I learnt that need to connect second amplifier but I don"t know how and where
    Any idea would be appreciated

    ilknur07
     
  33. pinci

    pinci A3 1,8T TQS

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    Hello , i will write in this topic. My problem is almoust the same. After conversion Concert 2 unit with Bose to RNS-D evrything works but I have one small problem. At first illumination on buttons didnt work but I conected ilumination pin on radio with ilumination wire on light switch. When the contact is on the RNS-D wont start. It only starts normal on knob for on/ off on the radio. The pins on RNS-D SAFE, S-Kont are free (there are no pins for them). I'v tried to conect S-Kont pin with S Contact pin on Tacho in the 32 pin blue conector (red/yellow) wire but nothing happends. Can please somwhone help :) ..I dont have TMC /CD changer for now. Only radio but this problem is on.
     

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