APR Remap is out for all mqb 1.8 TSI!

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lee_fr200

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http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...-pistonheads-golf-r-turbo-failure-td1.232015/


There you go if you do decide to remap you run the risk of losing your warranty on your engine, gearbox and associated components like diffs shafts etc etc

The cost to replace the engine will be £5k +
And I'm guessing the gearbox will be something similar

Me personally I've had my own experiences with remaps and engines blowing up not been covered! If anything I'd be getting a dtuk tuning box and be happy knowing that once removed its undetectable a remap will be found even if removed​
 

jasso86

Registered User
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...-pistonheads-golf-r-turbo-failure-td1.232015/


There you go if you do decide to remap you run the risk of losing your warranty on your engine, gearbox and associated components like diffs shafts etc etc

The cost to replace the engine will be £5k +
And I'm guessing the gearbox will be something similar

Me personally I've had my own experiences with remaps and engines blowing up not been covered! If anything I'd be getting a dtuk tuning box and be happy knowing that once removed its undetectable a remap will be found even if removed​
Fortunately, I live in Mexico, and seriously, if anything blows, it would be the turbo.I don't see how you could blow an engine with just a remap, I mean, boost levels are not raised to insane levels, fueling is more than capable in this engines, the ECU protects itself by pulling timming if needed (is super smart LOL).. so come on, stop exagerating...

And I highly doubt a turbo would cost more than 3k, wich I can pay. I can easily import things from US. Labor in Mexico is waaaay cheaper than Europe or US, so, not super worried about that.

Cheers.
 

a3_phil

Registered User
I don't have any experi
Fortunately

I live in Mexico, and seriously, if anything blows, it would be the turbo.I don't see how you could blow an engine with just a remap, I mean, boost levels are not raised to insane levels, fueling is more than capable in this engines, the ECU protects itself by pulling timming if needed (is super smart LOL).. so come on, stop exagerating...

And I highly doubt a turbo would cost more than 3k, wich I can pay. I can easily import things from US. Labor in Mexico is waaaay cheaper than Europe or US, so, not super worried about that.

Cheers.

I don't have any experience with this VAG engine but by way of comparison the Focus ST 2.5L lump had problems where the liners were cracking as a result of increased boost from remaps. Or at least they were cracking more frequently as a result of the remap.

And that was an engine making 90bhp per litre. Given that the S3 is making 150bhp per litre it would give me pause for thought...

And that's before you get on to turbos, clutches, DMFs etc...
 

elpaulio

Registered User
And you may not "blow" the engine but if you do kill the turbo and the vanes get dragged through the valves and mashed into the pistons then that's the engine done....or another way to look at it is that's the engine ready to be forged with a ported and polished head :arco::arco::thrashi:

It's like everything with cars, personal preference of a planned route to go!
 

jasso86

Registered User
My
I don't have any experi


I don't have any experience with this VAG engine but by way of comparison the Focus ST 2.5L lump had problems where the liners were cracking as a result of increased boost from remaps. Or at least they were cracking more frequently as a result of the remap.

And that was an engine making 90bhp per litre. Given that the S3 is making 150bhp per litre it would give me pause for thought...

And that's before you get on to turbos, clutches, DMFs etc...

My point is, remaps has existed since mmmm 1999, it's not like they are under development, and VAG'S ECUs get more and more clever with each generation, protecting the engine in several ways... Personally I owned a remmaped Ibiza FR for six years... never blew the turbo nor the engine.
 

jasso86

Registered User
And let's remember this is a 3rd generation 1.8TSI engine, meaning it has been improved and well revised.. and fortunately it seems there are no problems with blown turbos on 1.8TSI so far...

To put in on perpective, a dear friend had his mk2 leon 1.8 tsi, for 3 years. Startes with a remap, endend with and hybrid turbo producing 300 bhp and pf/ft... onlu issue was the clutch, obviously.

No engine failures whatsoever... internals in this engines are strong enough.
 

veeeight

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To reduce weight, the cylinder walls in the Gen3 EA888 are much thinner .......................
 

jasso86

Registered User
To reduce weight, the cylinder walls in the Gen3 EA888 are much thinner .......................

I know.. and thermal management is more efficient, reducing cylinder temsp.. so? we are not talking about a big turbo upgrade anyway... IT'S JUST A REMAP hahaha

come on guys really? no one likes remaps or modding cars? hahaha

cheers
 

lee_fr200

Registered User
My


My point is, remaps has existed since mmmm 1999, it's not like they are under development, and VAG'S ECUs get more and more clever with each generation, protecting the engine in several ways... Personally I owned a remmaped Ibiza FR for six years... never blew the turbo nor the engine.

I had a Ibiza fr tdi remapped by apr the turbo blew up at speed on the motorway bits of the turbo ended up in the air box and sump, those bits got sucked through the engine and bang my Ibiza had a blown engine and turbo and the engines aren't cheap! A well known tuner in Manchester who installed my apr stage 2 map washed their hands of it no warranty seat didn't want to know so I was left with a nearly new car that needed a lot of money spending on it, I will never go down the remap route again!!! If anything I'd rather have a tuning box that can be just disconnected and no one is any of the wiser in fact I could do that if I was at the side of the road while waiting for the AA or RAC
 

veeeight

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.. so? we are not talking about a big turbo upgrade anyway... IT'S JUST A REMAP


Err.

You said:

And let's remember this is a 3rd generation 1.8TSI engine, meaning it has been improved and well revised.. and fortunately it seems there are no problems with blown turbos on 1.8TSI so far...



And I replied saying that Gen3 had thinner cylinder walls, to reduce weight. Which means that your assertion that it was improved and revised, and therefore better able to withstand power increases via modding, is false.

3rd generation does not necessarily mean better and stronger, with cost down involved, it's often the opposite.
 

Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.

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The 2.5 Focus engine was an over-bored Volvo lump and it is fundamentally very weak due to this. Not all engines are like this obviously

Returning an ECU to stock is precisely that, and it is undetectable if done correctly. I don't really know what else I can say on the subject that I haven't already explained...

However - and I've said this before - if you are concerned about your warranty then leave the car completely standard. Certainly do not fit a tuning box - these are worse in this respect.

Morally - I agree - we should not attempt to get someone to pay for work we are not entitled to. However, the vast majority of claims under warranty are not due to a remap, but due to a genuine manufacturing fault and I've never known a dealer not pay out.

What is interesting, is how many people are straight down to the tuners as soon as warranty is up - as if now the warranty is up it's suddenly less likely to develop a fault!

Rick
 

veeeight

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Returning an ECU to stock is precisely that, and it is undetectable if done correctly. I don't really know what else I can say on the subject that I haven't already explained...


There's Returning to Stock, and "Returning to Stock" though, isn't there ;)

What Rick clearly does, is to Return to Stock by restoring the original file that was in the ECU - no TD1

Some other (well known big-name) tuners "Return to Stock" by restoring their version of a stock tune, or utilise a different area of the ECU - both of these "Return to Stock" methods will indeed flag a TD1 ;)
 

jasso86

Registered User
Err.

You said:





And I replied saying that Gen3 had thinner cylinder walls, to reduce weight. Which means that your assertion that it was improved and revised, and therefore better able to withstand power increases via modding, is false.

3rd generation does not necessarily mean better and stronger, with cost down involved, it's often the opposite.

I agree with you, but even though walls are thinner, doesn't mean they are the weakest ever designed/built and can't handle a hp/torque increase by a Stage 1 remap. In this particular case, cilinder walls might not be stronger, but the overall design of the engine IS better, as i said, thermal management is better and aids to lower temperatures in the cylinders which is good when increasing boost/timming/load etc.

Tuning is not a cheap hobby, fact... i'm well aware of risks, but i'm detecting to much of a pessimist "aura" around here, that's all. Of course I would not like to blow anything, but if that was the case, well, got the funds to repair the damage.

Cheers
 
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jasso86

Registered User
I had a Ibiza fr tdi remapped by apr the turbo blew up at speed on the motorway bits of the turbo ended up in the air box and sump, those bits got sucked through the engine and bang my Ibiza had a blown engine and turbo and the engines aren't cheap! A well known tuner in Manchester who installed my apr stage 2 map washed their hands of it no warranty seat didn't want to know so I was left with a nearly new car that needed a lot of money spending on it, I will never go down the remap route again!!! If anything I'd rather have a tuning box that can be just disconnected and no one is any of the wiser in fact I could do that if I was at the side of the road while waiting for the AA or RAC

Sorry to hear that. All my friends that have remmaped their carsm have never had an issue.. as thousands (millions?) of customers from around the world using X ammount of tunes.

Your an isolated case, as many of course, and who knows, maybe you had something else wrong with your engine, but it's always easier to blame a tune.

Regards,
 

elpaulio

Registered User
However - and I've said this before - if you are concerned about your warranty then leave the car completely standard. Certainly do not fit a tuning box - these are worse in this respect.
Worse in what respect?
 

lee_fr200

Registered User
Sorry to hear that. All my friends that have remmaped their carsm have never had an issue.. as thousands (millions?) of customers from around the world using X ammount of tunes.

Your an isolated case, as many of course, and who knows, maybe you had something else wrong with your engine, but it's always easier to blame a tune.

Regards,

Car was perfect had 22k miles on it
It had a decat which when mapped according to seat causes the turbo to overspeed heat is built up causing the shaft to bend compressor wheel then lunches itself along with other components the car went to seat I didn't believe what they told me so I sent the turbo away for examination by turbo dynamics and they didn't know the car had been remapped their report came back and said ithad run too much boost and must have been remapped which had ****** the turbo , when 2 totally independent companies say the same thing I tend to believe their expert opinion, the engine was taken apart and that had gone due to the turbo shards travelling up the sides of the Pistons and damaging the rings! I still have the engine and the engineers report, I've seen the damage also
 

RobH_S3

Registered User
There's Returning to Stock, and "Returning to Stock" though, isn't there ;)

What Rick clearly does, is to Return to Stock by restoring the original file that was in the ECU - no TD1

Some other (well known big-name) tuners "Return to Stock" by restoring their version of a stock tune, or utilise a different area of the ECU - both of these "Return to Stock" methods will indeed flag a TD1 ;)

Actually I think its a minority of the "big" tuners vendors that don't return to stock properly even though they should, so choose your tuning shop wisely is all ill say on that. If you went to Revo HQ for instance they would return it to the original stock file and youd be td1 safe.
 

Gazwould

Registered User
Sounds like the Seat Ibiza needed some degree of back pressure.

I've got a chipped 19 year old petrol turbo and a remapped 170k tdi , both decated that haven't **** themselves.

Tuning boxes are not as good as you think and lack the refinement of a remap.
 

jasso86

Registered User
Car was perfect had 22k miles on it
It had a decat which when mapped according to seat causes the turbo to overspeed heat is built up causing the shaft to bend compressor wheel then lunches itself along with other components the car went to seat I didn't believe what they told me so I sent the turbo away for examination by turbo dynamics and they didn't know the car had been remapped their report came back and said ithad run too much boost and must have been remapped which had ****** the turbo , when 2 totally independent companies say the same thing I tend to believe their expert opinion, the engine was taken apart and that had gone due to the turbo shards travelling up the sides of the Pistons and damaging the rings! I still have the engine and the engineers report, I've seen the damage also

I believe you thanks for explaining your case.

I ran 20-22 spikes of boost on a 1.8t 20v.. i sold it last dec 15th and still running like a champ.. also decat...
 

lee_fr200

Registered User
Yeah I'm just putting it down to a bad remap as after the engine was replaced along with the turbo I took it to a very well known tuner rstuning and they said the map was bad also so they sorted out a standard map for me and I returned it to stock and never had a problem since
 

nervus

Registered User
I Don't fully believe the tuning boxes are infallible either even when removed. I have an MTM M-Cantronic as I thought the MTM warranty was a good product to have should it go pop.

Mine has been back to the dealers many times including a hook up back to the factory to recode a replaced MMI unit and when I asked if there was any error codes flagged they confirmed there wasn't.

However, if there was a catastrophic engine or gearbox failure all the need to do is investigate how the car has been driven, how quick the revs build, top speeds etc etc. Maybe I'm being paranoid but I'm sure if they were motivated they could find an anomaly.
 

RobH_S3

Registered User
Why not aim to keep threads on topic and stop the trolling that goes on in every tuning thread by people who disagree with it and turn it into a tuning vs warranty thread?
 

Bristle Hound

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Why not aim to keep threads on topic and stop the trolling that goes on in every tuning thread by people who disagree with it and turn it into a tuning vs warranty thread?
It's only people's opinions Rob

Just don't like to see this or any other thread for that matter, go all 'personal' because of differences in opinion
 

RobH_S3

Registered User
But it's the same opinions rinsed and repeated on evey tuning thread. Does it not get to the point where you have to ask what is the point? Surely there has to be some structure to a thread?

Just because someone has an opinion doesn't mean it belongs in the thread!
 

veeeight

I am a very pretty girl
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That's the price we pay for freedom of speech (within limits) :)

A particularly poignant point, in light of this weeks news.

Once we as a society start encouraging censoring views and opinions then it's the thin end of the wedge.

I do understand the frustration but hey-ho, it's only an Internet forum.
 

Forbzeeee

Well-Known Member
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Not sure what the argument is really. If you want to be 100% sure your warranty will be honoured then don't get a remap. If you are like me and do not mind the risk of having to pay for a new engine (worse case scenario) then go ahead. After 3 years Audi warranties expire (unless you extend) and people go and mod their cars without a thought. If the engine blows after the warranty has expired then you will have to pay anyway.

To bring this back to the original topic, fair play to APR for bringing out a remap. It's there for those who want it but by no means compulsory so the choice is yours.

Happy modding :)
 

Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.

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Worse in what respect?

Tracability - they leave VAG specific fault codes, plus it's usually quite easy to tell if a connector has been disturbed.
Likely hood of failure - because the box is sending the ECU false info, it is less able to detect and react to a potential issue.

Rick
 

veeeight

I am a very pretty girl
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Worse in what respect?


Also - with a box, you are only modifying one parameter with respect to rpm. With a re-map - you have access to other parameters :)

But this isn't box- bashing - they are what they are.
 

RobH_S3

Registered User
That's the price we pay for freedom of speech (within limits) :)

A particularly poignant point, in light of this weeks news.

Once we as a society start encouraging censoring views and opinions then it's the thin end of the wedge.

I do understand the frustration but hey-ho, it's only an Internet forum.

Don't bring freedom of speech into this if you wanna talk about remap and warranty start a thread on it, it's not rocket science. This is the first forum I've been on where by the topic of the thread doesn't matter because everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Why don't I start talking about this weekends football? It's an opinion after all.

Ridiculous!!!

The fact that the moderator liked your post is laughable.

No one needs to censor views or opinions it's quite simple... They belong in another thread. That's why there's a button that says "post new thread"!!!

Basically all the posts on me arguing about off topic need to be deleted and the drivel regarding warranty and only post about mapping on 1.8tsi should remain.
 
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veeeight

I am a very pretty girl
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The arguments are relevant.

All views and opinions, on remapping, are relevant in a remapping thread!

Not sure why you're so upset by this.
 

a3_phil

Registered User
Well if its mapped back to stock before visiting the dealer you wont be voiding any warranty.

This was your first post in this thread.

It was incorrect and someone called you on it. The warranty was technically void even if the dealer were not aware. If you get away with it, you've just defrauded them.

The criticism could not have been more 'on topic'.
 

warren_S5

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I think whereas ten years ago people went on forums to share learnings and explore / brainstorm opportunities, now forums have become more mainstream this angle has diminished and it's become much more one dimensional. Too many people are on them to push their own agendas and rubbish everything else.

Back in my days at SEATCUPRA.net we were exploring all sorts of modification, getting bespoke parts engineered, tapping up BTCC teams for help and there was a real buzz and enthusiasm about it. I find Audi forums lack some of this 'all for the greater good', and can be a touch egocentric and dogmatic.

Personal view is that there is a lot of smoke and mirrors in the modifications / tuning market, and a lot of conspiracy and misinformation. As cars have got so expensive (and more complex) in the last 5 years it means trial and error is much more dangerous, and this limits scope for inventiveness or any depth of understanding. However if you are going to take this route (and I speak as someone who is a prolific modifier), then research, invest and enjoy. To be frank accept people's opinions for what they are, but if you don't like the skip over them and occasionally you may even get the odd nugget of wisdom from them but a forum is a place where people are free to speak as they wish. The quality of the read is much higher if people can stay on topic, but ultimately the moderation team are not in a position to hold each thread to a tight script as we have day jobs / families / lives (and today hospital visits) to attend to!.
 
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