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APR Norway 2.0TSI K04 kit Dyno day

A3SBQ Aug 12, 2015

  1. A3SBQ

    A3SBQ A3 SportBack 2TFSI quattro DSG

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    Hi all.
    As someone of you have read before I have a A3 2009 SportBack 2.0TFSI (ea888 TSI engine) quattro & S-Tronic.

    Have had the car for almost 5 years now. My only problem was one blown engine caused by the timing chain tensioner broke down two times. So finally got new engine on warranty from Audi.
    Had also need to change the mechanic once due to production error (my had the series produced 2008.5 to 2009 where a bush is preworn)

    After the new engine was installed the K04 turbo kit was installed together with other mods.
    HPA 3" DP with 100cel cat.
    APR intercooler
    APR carbonio CAI
    R8 red coils
    Neuspeed TOP & charge intact pipe
    DV+ valve
    Haldex Gen4 controller
    VWR anti rollbar front and rear.
    ProAlloy LCA w/anti lift and adjustable ball joint
    SuperPro bushing kit

    The sw is APR 2.0TSI K04 v3.1 w/ 3bar map sensor and 100oct file (running on 98oct fuel)
    APR Web site claims 375hp and 550Nm

    The Dyno used was a DynaPack
    Ambient temperature was 15 degree Celsius and raining

    Results on the wheels was 306whp and 438Nm.
    Calculated engine power was 371hp and 535nm

    Below you will see synopsis graphs.
    Hope you like it.

    2015-08-09 11.41.25.jpg 2015-08-04 18.56.40.jpg 2015-08-04 18.55.49.jpg
     
    Rideen, shadow1993, S. and 1 other person like this.
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  3. A3SBQ

    A3SBQ A3 SportBack 2TFSI quattro DSG

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    No one likes a full dyno report???
    Thanks Sandra :)
     
  4. Rideen

    Rideen Registered User

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    Nice!

    That torque curve though... looks odd to me.
     
  5. A3SBQ

    A3SBQ A3 SportBack 2TFSI quattro DSG

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    This is APR 2.0TSI K04 sw v3.1 w/3bar map sensor. It's suppose to do so. This is to avoid turbo surge in the lower rpms.
    When the engine hit 4000rpms all hell breaks loos. You get a pretty nice punch in the seat feeling like old turbo cars.

    Unfortunately I was not able to log with boost. Forgot to bring the boost tap.
     
  6. S.

    S. Save the manuals

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    great work!!
     
  7. Gaz-M

    Gaz-M Registered User

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    Nice! Is it the APR turbo kit then?

    Do you have full exhaust or just 3" downpipe?

    Expected nearer 400bhp as these tend to do good figures with a K04 with intercooler, plus youve upgraded the pancake pipes.

    Im hoping for nearer 400 with decat, stage 2 intercooler, Forge boost pipes and custom map.
     
  8. A3SBQ

    A3SBQ A3 SportBack 2TFSI quattro DSG

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    Thanks.
    Mine is the HPA turbo and DP kit. Its the same basically.
    Have not full exhaus. Only 3" DP and 100cell cat.
    Haven't seen any reaching 400hp mark on the k04 though.
     
  9. Gaz-M

    Gaz-M Registered User

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    Theres a chap on mkv forum with a K04 TSI Octavia making 413bhp, with a DIY modified K04, exhaust, intake, intercooler and custom map!
     
  10. A3SBQ

    A3SBQ A3 SportBack 2TFSI quattro DSG

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    Any liks on it?
     
  11. Gaz-M

    Gaz-M Registered User

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    He doesnt have a thread for it, he just PMd me when i was talking of doing it. His rolling road printout was on performance torques Facebook page after they mapped it.
     
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  13. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    The point here is in the words "modified K04".

    Whether some sort of DIY conversion,or a hybrid such as the TTE420,the thing is that an unmodified K04 will not turn out anything beyond 400bhp,and even that means wringing the things neck to do so.

    If you look at every software tuner's torque curves,the peak is at around 5000rpm,and it starts to roll off pretty quickly after that,and A3SBQ's figures show exactly the same traits.
    Power also starts to roll off,meaning that there is little point hanging on until the red line,and quicker progress can be made by making use of the torque up to peak bhp.

    The only real solution to this is a bigger turbo,which doesn't run out of flow so quickly.
     
  14. Gaz-M

    Gaz-M Registered User

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    Sorry, by DIY modified i just mean he never bought the APR etc kit, he had BBT modify the standard K04 compressor outlet. I think he said it had something done to the blades though, and a 16psi actuator. Who knows. The TSI is also meant to be a better flowing engine.
     
  15. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    This is my point.

    The compressor and outlet had been modified,and this is what is done to a number of hybrids.
    Essentially he's using the guts of a hybrid to exceed the 400bhp mark,so it isn't really comparable to a K04.

    As for better flowing,I'm not convinced,as a stock TFSi head will flow sufficient for somewhat more than 600bhp.
     
    S. likes this.
  16. Gaz-M

    Gaz-M Registered User

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    The outlet needs modified so it fits the TAI engine. Not for power.

    If you search, the chap from APR has a list of reasons the TSI is better and makes better power.
     
  17. Gaz-M

    Gaz-M Registered User

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    Originally Posted by Arin@APR

    The FSI head does not flow as well as the TSI.
    The FSI is more susceptible to knock than the TSI.
    The FSI does not have as good of a fueling system as the TSI.
    The FSI has more internal losses compared to the TSI.

    The TSI is just better so it makes more power. We should expect that form a completely new engine from VW. That's how progress works. That's all.
     
  18. A3SBQ

    A3SBQ A3 SportBack 2TFSI quattro DSG

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    Is there a TTE420 kit for the TSI? Anyone that runs it?

    The TSI is maybe a better starting point for the K04 level but I think rods and pistons are running out of the safe zone..
    Mine is already pushing the limits even though there are cars running stage3 GTX turbo or equal. But we do not how long it can take the beating on the track.

    One thing that the TSI is struggling with is oil surge.
     
  19. A3SBQ

    A3SBQ A3 SportBack 2TFSI quattro DSG

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    @Gaz-M
    Your list is true and complete
    For me it's strange that Audi/VW did not make a TSI w/K04 from stock used in the last Golf R MK6 and S3 8P series..

    The MK7 and 8V is now on the next generation TSI and it's producing 380bhp on stage 1 no other mods. I will say evolution is going forward...

    IE is making a TwinScroll turbo kit for the TSI (it's already out for the TFSI) Will be excited news the following month on this.
    Expected power is 450bhp +++
    Not sure on the internals though...
     
  20. Gaz-M

    Gaz-M Registered User

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    I dont know nothing about the Mk7, or the engine, but ive heard they do good power easily! Not overly keen on them yet, and i couldnt afford one, never mind tune it!
     
  21. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    Well....let's say that when I last spoke to APR,their views were somewhat less than clear.
    They were offering head mods for the 2.0 but not the S3.
    They couldn't say if/when or anything else about head mods for the S3 engine.
    Then they stopped offering head porting altogether.
    Then there was the takeover....

    And it kind of went on like that.

    There's also the fact that their big power development stopped with the 2867 kit.

    I really don't want to rake over old ground here but I would say don't believe everything the internet says.
    That's why my old TFSi can turn out over 600bhp on a stock head,which someone said wasn't possible.

    IE are way ahead in some respects,and a lot of my gear comes from them....even they reckoned the TFSi head is fine,which was the same view from Syvecs,when they programmed my ECU.



    Just to recap on that post,it dates back to 2011 and coincided with someone getting himself banned from a number of forums.

    In that respect,the company stands on far better ground now that some of the hyperbole has been reined in,and the new owners are focussing on different things.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
  22. Gaz-M

    Gaz-M Registered User

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    Dont worry, you dont need to defend your TFSI, we all know theyre great engines and make good power.

    The discussion was why we should expect more power from a K04'd TSI.

    I think its pretty well documented why the TSI makes more power, theres a more in depth explanation somewhere. 2 things i remember is the throttle flaps on the TFSI sit in the middle of the inlet tract, in disrupting airflow, where as TSI they sit to the side and totally out the way. The other i remember is lower compression meaning more aggressive timing is possible. The fuel system is also much better and doesnt need upgrading like a TFSI.
     
    sliced likes this.
  23. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    I'm not defending the TFSi or running down the TSi.

    Simply reminding you of the history behind some of the things said.

    For serious power both engines require fuel system and a host of other mods.

    The K04 is the major limitation to both engines and practically speaking,the difference between 400bhp at peak rpm and 420bhp is something that few will ever notice but torque is another matter.
     
    sliced likes this.
  24. Gaz-M

    Gaz-M Registered User

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    Yes but all im saying is a TSI with a K04 should make better power than a K04 TFSI, from what ive seen.

    Nothing more than that.. :)
     
  25. sliced

    sliced Drive safe, stay alive.

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    I think Gaz was trying to stay an OEM K04 won't physically fit in the tsi engine, you need to cut off the turbo muffler and weld on a new 2.5" outlet due to clearance issues with the head, and block off the pcv and relocate the DV, hence the "modified" k04.
    In terms of getting 413bhp out of a k04, are you sure its not a hybrid K04, ie a tte420?
     
  26. Gaz-M

    Gaz-M Registered User

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    He did say it has cut back blades to help spool and a 16psi actuator. Not a hybrid though.

    Thats all i know.

    Maybe theyre kind rollers ..
     
  27. curlo

    curlo Registered User

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    No there isn't one for the TSI engine. I looked into this and Simon at TTE confirmed that they didn't do one. I therefore ended up going with the CTS Turbo K04 kit and Revo stage 3 software. Haven't had it dyno'd yet, but perhaps I should as I'd be interested to see what it's putting out...
     
  28. Gaz-M

    Gaz-M Registered User

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    The TTE 420 compressor outlet could be modified to fit TSI, just like required on a K04 unless you buy a proper kit.

    Im building my own kit. Ive modified the K04 to fit the TSI instead of buying an expensive kit out the box!
    [​IMG]
     
    A3SBQ likes this.
  29. curlo

    curlo Registered User

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    @A3SBQ Forgot to say...great result, by the way. Rude of me not to say it before!
     
    A3SBQ likes this.
  30. JT Weatherman

    JT Weatherman Registered User

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    I've looked all around the forums for weeks... Nobody seems makes K04 power with the HPA K04.
     

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