any point in big turbo's anymore vs hybrid turbo's

[cupra-mike84]

just think we should start an informative thread to help make peoples minds up BT or hybrid

but as title says is there any point in big turbos anymore with k04 023 frames pushing out 330bhp-400bhp to k04 063 framed turbos pushing out 400+ if this is where were at now i would dare to say big turbo's are becoming obsolete atleast the gt28 an alike an i know there will be a few people on here that would shout me down but with the power there making and how soon they spool within the rev range vs a mahoosive gt30 gt35 with how high on in the rev range they spool for around the same power on moderate setups is just a no brainer to me an in my mind just not worth the money that can be thrown at them

now just to add i,m not a mapper or a prawn of this site i,v just read far to much on the subject trying to make my mind up but i am ready for a beating on this i have my battle gear on bring it haha

 

[grainqey]

LOL, you have a very valid point however it depends on peoples intended application also there are "hybrid turbos" and "hybrid turbos" some of them are (to be blunt) crap! however some such as the tte and loba seem to be excellent and very well matched to the tfsi airflow and displacement though if you're pushing on for more power then the popular hybrids simply cant flow enough air because of the housing sizes, they strangle it at the top end as they are intended for a lower power figure or intended to be more everyday, you have to get the balance right between headroom and enough restriction for It to properly spool

don't forget the K04-(064 I think you mean) frame hybrids are running a clipped K16 turbine and GTX28? compressor wheel if i'm not mistaken in the case of the TTE420, the advantage is a straight swap fitment instead of seperate manifold and adaption pipework - it's basically an easier to fit version of something like a GTX2871/76R - I think the big turbos still have a place

 

[JonnyDerv]

Tte420 doesn't run a gtx28 compressor wheel

 

[S3Alex]

just think we should start an informative thread to help make peoples minds up BT or hybrid

but as title says is there any point in big turbos anymore with k04 023 frames pushing out 330bhp-400bhp to k04 063 framed turbos pushing out 400+ if this is where were at now i would dare to say big turbo's are becoming obsolete atleast the gt28 an alike an i know there will be a few people on here that would shout me down but with the power there making and how soon they spool within the rev range vs a mahoosive gt30 gt35 with how high on in the rev range they spool for around the same power on moderate setups is just a no brainer to me an in my mind just not worth the money that can be thrown at them

now just to add i,m not a mapper or a prawn of this site i,v just read far to much on the subject trying to make my mind up but i am ready for a beating on this i have my battle gear on bring it haha

Like it....good idea for a thread like this.

My own take would be that a few years ago I'd probably have gone for a hybrid like at TTE420,and been very happy with it.
As it was,those didn't exist when I started modding my car,and I went for one of the 2 big turbo kits available.

This had a GT3071,and actually wasn't bad in terms of spool,but had the benefit of extending the usable boost range further up the rpm range,where the old K04 was out of puff.

The setup I have now is a GTX3576 with some compressor mods etc,and together with a very clever ECU and programming,produces useful boost from 3000rpm,and peak boost from 4000rpm out to beyond 7500rpm.
Now that turns out around 550bhp/550lbs at 1.9bar,but what I wouldn't suggest,and I'm sure no sensible tuner would either,is to use such a turbo and ECU for a setup less than 500bhp as a minimum,as the costs are too high.

So my point I guess is that with the right ancillaries,you can get a big turbo to produce boost from roughly similar rpm to the stock turbo,but it will extend much further up the Rev range and won't run out of puff,but it's expensive and unnecessary for most applications.

As graingey says,I think that big turbos still have a place,but hybrids will give most people what they want,without the relatively large costs of a real big turbo engine build.

 

[DieselJake]

Surely reliability is the main thing people have an issue with when it comes to hybrid's, I have no doubt some are as reliable or more than originals but if I was getting a turbo and map I'd much rather choose a turbo that I can replace like for like if it fails. I'm more talking budget builds here, if your going crazy horsepower without the need for reliability and money is no object the biggest hybrid turbo is probably the only way to go but for longevity and around town use I usually just go for the next size up as allot of big turbo's loose the bottom end power and don't spool until much later on which isn't much fun unless it already has a big displacement engine, it's a drag strip car or you just want impressive dyno figures.

For reference I have a 1.9tdi pd130 which has a BV43 turbo (off a 170bhp 2.0tdi engine) and I have/had a 1.3 Starlet GT Turbo which had a TD04 turbo (off a 2.0 turbo Subaru engine).

Not saying I'm right or wrong but this is just my preference for street cars.

 

[JonnyDerv]

My gtx2867r 1.8t on 8.5:1 I thought was dog slow below 3k but pulled okay post 3k and went ape **** at 4K. Driving a remapped 2.0 tsi ihi (ko3 equilivant) it doesn't feel any quicker in the lower range and a lot lot flatter up top. Just a tad better throttle response I find.

 

[S3Alex]

Surely reliability is the main thing people have an issue with when it comes to hybrid's, I have no doubt some are as reliable or more than originals but if I was getting a turbo and map I'd much rather choose a turbo that I can replace like for like if it fails. I'm more talking budget builds here, if your going crazy horsepower without the need for reliability and money is no object the biggest hybrid turbo is probably the only way to go but for longevity and around town use I usually just go for the next size up as allot of big turbo's loose the bottom end power and don't spool until much later on which isn't much fun unless it already has a big displacement engine, it's a drag strip car or you just want impressive dyno figures.

For reference I have a 1.9tdi pd130 which has a BV43 turbo (off a 170bhp 2.0tdi engine) and I have/had a 1.3 Starlet GT Turbo which had a TD04 turbo (off a 2.0 turbo Subaru engine).

Not saying I'm right or wrong but this is just my preference for street cars.

I see your point about reliability,and mine is an everyday driver,and I do need normal levels of reliability.

Thanks to the programming and other mods,the turbo on mine will pick up useful boost from 2500rpm,and remains perfectly driveable around town at low rpms.
It'll quite happily trundle around at 1500rpm in 7th gear,which was a trick none of my previous turbo cars except the diesels could pull off.

So what I'd say is that a big turbo can be made to spool from low rpm,and can remain driveable,but getting that isn't cheap.....mine has an aftermarket ECU,plus head work,and some clever turbo work.