Another 2.0T FSI CCZA Timing Chain Tensioner Advice Thread..

samcorbridge

Registered User
Hello everyone

I know there are a few of these threads already knocking around, so apologies for that. I have reviewed them and have a few more questions.

The car in question is a 2010 Audi A3 2.0T FSI (CCZA) with 47,300 miles on the odometer. I purchased the car on 8 June with 46,131 miles on it. The car has one previous owner, and was serviced at an Audi specialist in Manchester.

On Wednesday morning, I started the car to no avail. The starter motor was functioning fine, and the car was receiving power to the dash, stereo etc. After some research, I identified that it could be the timing chain tensioner that was the problem. Given the low mileage of this car, this is pretty disappointing. The car was running fine on Tuesday evening, and had recently completed a couple of trips between Bristol and Cheshire fine, with the oil level roughly the same as when I purchased it.

There was no noise or rattle from the engine while driving, and no loss of power or such. The car was stationary when this happened, and on a flat incline. There has been no spill of oil etc since. When turning the engine over, a small noise can be heard - initially I was convinced this is the piston hitting the cylinder head, but have been advised it may simply be the chain/tensioner assembly. The AA have been out and confirmed very little, that it is most likely the timing chain.

I contacted Audi UK who advised me any goodwill would be at the discretion of the local dealer. I contacted Audi Warrington who put me through to John, the technical service manager. I received two different messages from John, and the initial advisor.

Initially, I was advised there wasn't a chance of receiving any goodwill from Audi UK or Warrington, as the car had been serviced independently. Further, there would be a £1,200-1,500 charge for them to take the engine head off before they could put a case to Audi UK anyway. He advised that a new engine would be £8,500-10,000. He said to consider scrapping the car for ~£2,500.

John was slightly more optimistic, advising that if I could obtain receipts from previous owner/service garage that the correct oil and filters had been used a case could still be made. He advised he wouldn't usually expect the timing chain tensioner to go by 47,000 miles, but as neither of us knew the driving history of the car we couldn't be sure. He said that unfortunately I would still require them to disassemble the engine before contacting Audi UK.

An independent specialist (RGH Audi Knutsford) said that he would take the head off and see if it needed an overhaul for £300, then go from there. He would be able to then supply and fit a reconditioned engine if necessary (could be ~£4k inc. labour) or complete an overhaul (~£1.5k). I contacted the dealer and said I was happy to pay the inspection fee, and then would he make a contribution to the costs thereafter. He declined as he said he wasn't obliged to offer anything.

The dealer I brought the car from is saying that as it's a wear and tear item (I didn't think it was as it's a lifetime part in the service book) that it wouldn't be covered under the SOGA. They weren't prepared to offer anything other than the £500 claim limit for their warranty.. No garages in my locality will use the warranty company, but he didn't accept this. The impression I got from John at Audi is that had I owned the car from new and serviced it at Audi it would potentially be replaced by goodwill, as it isn't expected to have failed at that mileage.

My questions really are:

Is this part considered wear and tear? Should it be replaced/repaired under the Sale Of Goods Act?

I see the options as follows, which is best?
i) Scrap the car and cut losses.
ii) Go with Audi and hope for goodwill, unlikely
iii) Go with independent and have overhaul/recon engine
iv) Find somewhere that accepts the warranty company, and sell the car as soon as it is fixed

How will fitting a recon engine affect the saleability/value of the car?

I'm only 20 and don't have the disposable funds to be ploughing into this car if I'm not going to see any return. I accept that I'm going to make some loss. I think I got a reasonable deal on the car, and so would contribute £1-1.5k if the dealer would cover the rest, which I think is fair given what I see as the dealers obligation under the SOGA.

Any help or advice is offered. I've tried and failed to keep this concise, so if I've missed anything let me know. Your previous experiences are welcomed.
 

samcorbridge

Registered User
Further, I've seen a few recommendations for RGH Audi on the TT forums, has anyone any experience with Rick? Similarly, are there any recommended engine rebuilders/re-conditioners near Cheshire?
 

samuelh_888

Registered User
The dealer is obliged to honour their 3 month warranty under the SOGA. If you also purchased an extended warranty then in my experience it's a bit if a grey area of whether the warranty company or the dealer would deal with this initial 3 mth period.

I'm not sure whether you purchased an extended (3rd party warranty).

Give your local Citizen Advice Bureau a call and ask them where you stand on the SOGA. They'll guide you but also point you to the relevant letter template on their website.

Considering you've offered to pay for initial diagnostics the dealer is being a ****.

It may not be all bad, get a good local Indy to take a look but give CAB a call too.
 

samcorbridge

Registered User
The dealer is obliged to honour their 3 month warranty under the SOGA. If you also purchased an extended warranty then in my experience it's a bit if a grey area of whether the warranty company or the dealer would deal with this initial 3 mth period.

I'm not sure whether you purchased an extended (3rd party warranty).

Give your local Citizen Advice Bureau a call and ask them where you stand on the SOGA. They'll guide you but also point you to the relevant letter template on their website.

Considering you've offered to pay for initial diagnostics the dealer is being a ****.

It may not be all bad, get a good local Indy to take a look but give CAB a call too.

Thank you for your response. The dealer offered an AutoProtect Gold warranty as part of the car sale. He also said that he wouldn't be able to consider any goodwill or such until the car had been returned to a 'as expected for age/mileage' driveable condition.

It seems to me like he's pushing for me to front the cost of the repairs, when he'll offer me an insignificant good will gesture. What are your thoughts on this?

I will contact the CAB on Monday. I had tried to avoid using this route by coming to an amicable solution, hence my offering splitting the cost.
 

samuelh_888

Registered User
CAB is a free service so you might as well make use of them and their resources. Give RGH Audi a call, you have nothing to loose.

As for what he said about considering goodwill - SOGA may say otherwise if the vehicle is unfit for purpose. Was it the dealer who offered £500 towards the repair? That would mostly cover the cam-chain, tensioner and fitting. I think you've been decent by offering to pay diagnostics, which you'd want repaid, but be careful on how much you spend before getting any commitment from him. Keep your emails and try to get him to give some acceptance - don't do phone as there is no record beyond a call being made.

Is the car drive-able or does it just not start? Is there any way you can get to back to the dealer as-is or is that not feasible? You're in a difficult position if you can't start or drive it (risk of more damage).
 

samcorbridge

Registered User
CAB is a free service so you might as well make use of them and their resources. Give RGH Audi a call, you have nothing to loose.

As for what he said about considering goodwill - SOGA may say otherwise if the vehicle is unfit for purpose. Was it the dealer who offered £500 towards the repair? That would mostly cover the cam-chain, tensioner and fitting. I think you've been decent by offering to pay diagnostics, which you'd want repaid, but be careful on how much you spend before getting any commitment from him. Keep your emails and try to get him to give some acceptance - don't do phone as there is no record beyond a call being made.

Is the car drive-able or does it just not start? Is there any way you can get to back to the dealer as-is or is that not feasible? You're in a difficult position if you can't start or drive it (risk of more damage).

The dealer hasn't offered any goodwill, he is saying that his form of goodwill is offering the warranty, which has a claim limit of £500. My concern is that they'll weasel out on the basis it's wear and tear, so it's not really any form of goodwill.

The car isn't driveable and doesn't start. It would need to be recovered, and the dealer is around 20 miles away. He said he 'is more concerned' that the garages near me don't accept the warranty company as payment, as apparently that makes the garages suspect not the warranty company..
 

samuelh_888

Registered User
The dealer hasn't offered any goodwill, he is saying that his form of goodwill is offering the warranty, which has a claim limit of £500.

I can't see how he can offer a warranty in lieu of his statutory right. Re my first post, if you have both his and a 3rd party, it's a bit grey who to go to (a choice I guess) but not there's an issue if have thought it would be fradulant to try to out a warranty in place.

He said he 'is more concerned' that the garages near me don't accept the warranty company as payment, as apparently that makes the garages suspect not the warranty company..

Not sure I follow this sorry mate; is he saying the garages near it should accept the warranty (that he hasn't event provided you with!).

This feels like a legal matter so you should get some sound advice. The Act changed in 2015, to the Consumer Rights Act, giving better rights to both the consumer and dealer but CAB will advise in this.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-used-car/

It could be that you have to get the car recovered to him to make an effort to repair. Sorry I can't be more help but I'm keen to know how you get on. It's a car worth saving so don't be too disheartened.
 
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samcorbridge

Registered User
I can't see how he can offer a warranty in lieu of his statutory right. Re my first post, if you have both his and a 3rd parts, it's a bit grey who to go to (a choice I guess) but not there's an issue if have thought it would be fradulant to try to out a warranty in place.



Not sure I follow this sorry mate; is he saying the garages near it should accept the warranty (that he hasn't event provided you with!).

This feels like a legal matter so you should get some sound advice. The Act changes in 2011 giving better rights to both the consumer and dealer but CAB will advise in this.

It could be that you have to get the car recovered to him to make an effort to repair. Sorry o can't be more help but I'm keen to know how you get on. It's a car worth saving so don't be too disheartened.

Sorry, I have probably poorly explained. The dealer offered a 'free' AutoProtect Gold warranty with the car. He is saying that any payout from this (which has a claim limit of £500) would meet or exceed any 'goodwill' he would be able to offer.

When I advised him that no garages in my area accept the warranty due to failure and late payment etc, he is saying that the garages in my area are dubious. He is trying to imply that because I can't find a garage that will accept the warranty company (and their demand of £35/hour inc VAT labour), I am on my own. Seems even more ridiculous given that I've offered to pay any difference and then some more on my part.

What is more frustrating is the thought that I will have to potentially have to mess around with a small claims court claim etc during my final year of University. Ah well.
 

Jps3290

Registered User
If you bought it from Audi and its within the 3 month period then they should be putting the car right not matter what cost. When i bought my Audi from Arnold Clark i was driving it home from Glasgow and noticed a wierd noise at 70mph which turned out to be the doughnut rubber couple on the 4 wheel drive system at the rear had split. They replaced it within a week and I remember signing the paper work and it was something like £920 + vat after they replaced the full prop shaft. They could have just replaced the rubber coupling for about £180 plus fitting!!.

My cars just had an engine rebuild after my car was in for a cambelt kit/waterpump change and timing wasn't correct after refitting and damaged the engine. Needed 16 new inlet valves and 8 exhaust valves, rocker covers and followers etc. Total cost including another new Audi tensioner (new 1 that had been fit was a Gates was binned) was about £1432. Most of the cost was for parts.I have the bill somewhere but I think labour came to around £400.

My cars running spot on now at 48k miles. Engines very quiet and sounds brand new. Done 1200 miles so far with no issues.



Are you definitely sure its the belt or tensioner? Have you scanned via VCDS for error codes? Should come up with different codes depending on the error. If the camshaft/crank sensor is knackered it won't start to prevent damage and will flag up in VCDS. Have you took the cambelt cover off the top and had a look to see if the belts snapped/come loose, moves etc?? If everything is in place and tight its possibly a cam or crank sensor ?
 

jeffo

Registered User
Hi Sam,

Go onto the money saving experts website (him from TV) re the Consumer Rights Act 2015 he has a template that you can fill in and send to the dealer, The C.R.A 2015 states if something serious goes wrong within six months of purchase then the fault is deemed to have been there prior to purchase therefore the dealer is liable. You can take this back in time to i think 5 years.

Cheers Jeffo.
 

SootySport

Registered User
My 2010 CCZA is also on 47k. miles so interested in your plight. I would go with your option iii given what has been said by your Audi main dealer. Any chance you can diy the rebuild? and cut your losses.
The warranty you have should state what wearable parts are included, usually timing belts. I've never seen chains mentioned in any aftermarket warranty and also would assume it's a lifetime engine part. You may have cause to persue the matter on the wording in the warranty, so as others say CAB or a solicitor can help. Wish you luck mate.
 

jeffo

Registered User
If you dont want to take the Consumer Rights Act route yourself there are some solicitors in Stockport that specialise in no win no fee action Carter and Carter.

calcIcon.png
Value My Claim

Call us now on

0800 652 0586

Just another option
Cheers
Jeffo.
 

samcorbridge

Registered User
If you bought it from Audi and its within the 3 month period then they should be putting the car right not matter what cost. When i bought my Audi from Arnold Clark i was driving it home from Glasgow and noticed a wierd noise at 70mph which turned out to be the doughnut rubber couple on the 4 wheel drive system at the rear had split. They replaced it within a week and I remember signing the paper work and it was something like £920 + vat after they replaced the full prop shaft. They could have just replaced the rubber coupling for about £180 plus fitting!!.

My cars just had an engine rebuild after my car was in for a cambelt kit/waterpump change and timing wasn't correct after refitting and damaged the engine. Needed 16 new inlet valves and 8 exhaust valves, rocker covers and followers etc. Total cost including another new Audi tensioner (new 1 that had been fit was a Gates was binned) was about £1432. Most of the cost was for parts.I have the bill somewhere but I think labour came to around £400.

My cars running spot on now at 48k miles. Engines very quiet and sounds brand new. Done 1200 miles so far with no issues.



Are you definitely sure its the belt or tensioner? Have you scanned via VCDS for error codes? Should come up with different codes depending on the error. If the camshaft/crank sensor is knackered it won't start to prevent damage and will flag up in VCDS. Have you took the cambelt cover off the top and had a look to see if the belts snapped/come loose, moves etc?? If everything is in place and tight its possibly a cam or crank sensor ?
If you dont want to take the Consumer Rights Act route yourself there are some solicitors in Stockport that specialise in no win no fee action Carter and Carter.

calcIcon.png
Value My Claim

Call us now on

0800 652 0586

Just another option
Cheers
Jeffo.

Thanks for the information Jeffo, I'll have a look at C&C's site.
 

samcorbridge

Registered User
My 2010 CCZA is also on 47k. miles so interested in your plight. I would go with your option iii given what has been said by your Audi main dealer. Any chance you can diy the rebuild? and cut your losses.
The warranty you have should state what wearable parts are included, usually timing belts. I've never seen chains mentioned in any aftermarket warranty and also would assume it's a lifetime engine part. You may have cause to persue the matter on the wording in the warranty, so as others say CAB or a solicitor can help. Wish you luck mate.

Thanks for your reply. I could probably do the rebuild myself, but time is against me. I'm pretty busy at weekends for the next few weeks, and work full time in the week. Then I'm back off to University in September where work would have to halt.

I'd rather the peace of mind knowing it was sorted before I went back and that it had been performed to a satisfactory quality. Would be good fun to get stuck into the engine though!
 

samcorbridge

Registered User
If you bought it from Audi and its within the 3 month period then they should be putting the car right not matter what cost. When i bought my Audi from Arnold Clark i was driving it home from Glasgow and noticed a wierd noise at 70mph which turned out to be the doughnut rubber couple on the 4 wheel drive system at the rear had split. They replaced it within a week and I remember signing the paper work and it was something like £920 + vat after they replaced the full prop shaft. They could have just replaced the rubber coupling for about £180 plus fitting!!.

My cars just had an engine rebuild after my car was in for a cambelt kit/waterpump change and timing wasn't correct after refitting and damaged the engine. Needed 16 new inlet valves and 8 exhaust valves, rocker covers and followers etc. Total cost including another new Audi tensioner (new 1 that had been fit was a Gates was binned) was about £1432. Most of the cost was for parts.I have the bill somewhere but I think labour came to around £400.

My cars running spot on now at 48k miles. Engines very quiet and sounds brand new. Done 1200 miles so far with no issues.



Are you definitely sure its the belt or tensioner? Have you scanned via VCDS for error codes? Should come up with different codes depending on the error. If the camshaft/crank sensor is knackered it won't start to prevent damage and will flag up in VCDS. Have you took the cambelt cover off the top and had a look to see if the belts snapped/come loose, moves etc?? If everything is in place and tight its possibly a cam or crank sensor ?

I was under the impression it's the tensioner. I heard the rattle on startup when it went, although it hadn't been rattling before that. Turns out one that one of my neighbours owns an independent garage that comes recommended. He checked the engine out quickly yesterday and said that the left cams aren't turning, but that he doesn't think that any pistons are hitting the cylinder head or have taken any valves out. He said on the 1.4TSI Polo's they often fail in the same way, and in some cases simply putting a new tensioner on has rectified them.

I'm having the car recovered to him tomorrow for diagnostics and then he'll advise what would be the cheapest option.Will keep this thread updated.
 

samcorbridge

Registered User
Also: in terms of this playing out with the dealer, I foresee that I will need some form of 'definition' for what constitutes a wear and tear item on a car. My understanding is that while the tensioner *should* be upgraded, with the hindsight of the parts defect, it would still have been expected to last the lifetime of the chain as a non serviceable part.

His opinion is that it's wear and tear item, as 'it's made of plastic and a seven year old car.' Further, his view was that as the clutch and catalytic converters aren't on the service schedule this doesn't form the basis of an argument against them being a wear and tear items. I don't think this is a reasonable analogy to draw.

Would Audi be able to confirm this? Would the view of a mechanic suffice? I am concerned about any claim being refused on the basis of someone saying 'while we wouldn't expect it to fail this early, given we don't know the correct oil etc was always used we can't say it isn't wear and tear'..

Any help appreciated!
 

jeffo

Registered User
Hi Sam,

Audi uk have a facebook account where you can go on and ask questions and they get back to you within a couple of hours sometimes they ask for private details and contact you direct.

Cheers.

Jeffo.
 

samcorbridge

Registered User
Hi Sam,

Audi uk have a facebook account where you can go on and ask questions and they get back to you within a couple of hours sometimes they ask for private details and contact you direct.

Cheers.

Jeffo.
Thanks for the advice Jeffo. They're stalling on confirming whether or not they would expect the tensioner to fail at this age and mileage. They just keep saying that the timing chain is expected to be a lifetime part, and ignoring the fact I'm mentioning the tensioner and associated assembly.

They want the car taking in for diagnostics at Audi, which I've been advised will be £1,200-1,500. I'm not prepared to pay this to be told it needs a new engine, and I'm sure any goodwill they may offer would still make this option significantly more than a rebuild or reconditioned engine at an independent.

So I've recovered the car to a local Audi specialist this morning. He's going to put a new timing chain and tensioner etc on the car, retiming the car and performig a compression test to see if any valves are damaged and if any Pistons have been bent. A timing chain went on a 1.4 TFSI while at his garage (so under similar starting conditions as mine) and simply putting a new tensioner caused a fix as it only jumped one tooth which wasn't enough for the piston to hit the head or take any valves off. Fingers crossed but I'm not feeling too hopeful.
 

jeffo

Registered User
Thanks for the advice Jeffo. They're stalling on confirming whether or not they would expect the tensioner to fail at this age and mileage. They just keep saying that the timing chain is expected to be a lifetime part, and ignoring the fact I'm mentioning the tensioner and associated assembly.

They want the car taking in for diagnostics at Audi, which I've been advised will be £1,200-1,500. I'm not prepared to pay this to be told it needs a new engine, and I'm sure any goodwill they may offer would still make this option significantly more than a rebuild or reconditioned engine at an independent.

So I've recovered the car to a local Audi specialist this morning. He's going to put a new timing chain and tensioner etc on the car, retiming the car and performig a compression test to see if any valves are damaged and if any Pistons have been bent. A timing chain went on a 1.4 TFSI while at his garage (so under similar starting conditions as mine) and simply putting a new tensioner caused a fix as it only jumped one tooth which wasn't enough for the piston to hit the head or take any valves off. Fingers crossed but I'm not feeling too hopeful.
Fingers crossed for you but I had an issue I thought at the time with Evans Halshaw on a Nissan Qashqai I thought the gearbox had failed two months into my purchase. I approached them for a fix and the shutters came up double quick and as in your instance wear and tear was thrown at me.I then came across the Money saving experts website and saw the Consumer Rights Act template that is automatically filled for you you just fill the salient points and the computer configures it, you just send it then to the dealer

Evans Halshaw on receipt changed straight away and became very helpful. On investigation it turned out to be the Alternator bearings which was right beside the gearbox so false alarm but it put the wind up them they were more realistic regarding the fix and requested the car for investigation prior to this is was a dead pan no its wear and tear. Its worth filling that in, in my view send it to the dealer you bought it from and it only takes five minutes. Those warranties are generally not worth the paper they are written if you read them closely they have get out clauses for everything. Trust me Sam just fill it in and give it a whirl failing that Carter and Carter but in the long run that will also cost unless they charge the dealer their fees.
Which ever route you take good luck.

Cheers Jeffo.
 

jeffo

Registered User
Hi Sam,

Whats happening we like to know whats occurring I see you have contacted Audi UK.
 

sliced

Drive safe, stay alive.
Happened to mates 2.0t tfsi ccza engine code.

Ended up getting it sorted at a local car garage for c.£900.
 

Mario

Registered User
Sounds to me that the dealer you bought the car from is having you on. They are 100% FULLY liable for this, I would not be paying a penny.

Did you pay ANY of the car on credit card? Even a £50 deposit?? If so, then then legally the credit card company are equally liable for the full cost of the car, even if you only paid £5 on the credit card. If you did pay a small deposit by credit car (you always should) then get them on the phone and tell them it's their responsibility to sort this mess out.

Under the SOGA the SELLER is responsible to prove the goods were "fit for purpose" for the first 6 months, after that it's up to the buyer to prove the fault was inherent. At this time everything is in your favour. The dealer does not have a leg to stand on.

So tell them to fix it at THEIR expense, otherwise the CC company will get involved (if you paid deposit on card) and if you cannot get the CC company involved tell them you'll simply take them to court for a full refund under the SOGA.

If you can get the CC company involved it helps A LOT, they have MUCH, MUCH more leverage over a small dealership then you or I ever will. If not, then let the courts handle it.

However I would never pay a penny to fix a car that I bought 2 months ago!!
 

Jibaro

Registered User
Damn, are these CCZA engines unreliable, I've just bought one?! I was feeling lucky they'd changed to chain since my last TFSI 5 years ago was belt, but now not so sure!
 

samcorbridge

Registered User
Hello everyone

Sorry about the delay in updating, been pretty busy.

Audi UK have been pretty unhelpful in the end, they confirmed that it wouldn't expect the tensioner to fail at the given mileage, but as they couldn't account for the service history there was nothing they could really do. They advised to go to VOSA which yielded nothing as there wasn't a recall.

I went back to the dealer and discussed the SOGA. He again reiterated that it was a wear and tear part, saying that if Audi UK or the warranty company weren't paying out he had no obligation to either. I was under the impression that in him selling the car to me, he was essentially vouching for the service history but he stated that as long as there was no false advertisement of the service history it was down to me to asses it before purchase. Further, he was advising that there would have been a rattle present from when I purchased the car, and therefore it cannot have been present when the car was sold to me. He said should the case go to court this would be pretty easy for him to prove.

The garage has rebuilt the head, and the car should be back with me on Monday. I was invited to have a look at the engine when it was disassembled. Every intake and exhaust valve was bent, every tappet needed replacing and there was some damage to the head itself. It's going to cost around £3k+VAT.

The dealer has said he will make some goodwill, so I'm not going to push the SOGA/Court route until that point, incase I'm liable for the full cost and he withdraws this offer. I still find it crazy how I'm entirely liable but such is life. Given the total amount of money, it would be small claims court and I wouldn't be able to recover costs, so I'm not looking to go down that route at present.

Thanks guys.
 

samcorbridge

Registered User
Sounds to me that the dealer you bought the car from is having you on. They are 100% FULLY liable for this, I would not be paying a penny.

Did you pay ANY of the car on credit card? Even a £50 deposit?? If so, then then legally the credit card company are equally liable for the full cost of the car, even if you only paid £5 on the credit card. If you did pay a small deposit by credit car (you always should) then get them on the phone and tell them it's their responsibility to sort this mess out.

Under the SOGA the SELLER is responsible to prove the goods were "fit for purpose" for the first 6 months, after that it's up to the buyer to prove the fault was inherent. At this time everything is in your favour. The dealer does not have a leg to stand on.

So tell them to fix it at THEIR expense, otherwise the CC company will get involved (if you paid deposit on card) and if you cannot get the CC company involved tell them you'll simply take them to court for a full refund under the SOGA.

If you can get the CC company involved it helps A LOT, they have MUCH, MUCH more leverage over a small dealership then you or I ever will. If not, then let the courts handle it.

However I would never pay a penny to fix a car that I bought 2 months ago!!

Sadly paid by Visa Debit. I believe there is a bank claim process that I can undertake, but not sure if I'll be covered due to the dealerships claim of wear and tear part.
 

samcorbridge

Registered User
Hi Sam,

Whats happening we like to know whats occurring I see you have contacted Audi UK.

Hi Jeffo, see post above. Audi UK passed me back to Audi Warrington who confirmed that they wouldn't expect the part to fail at that mileage and age given it had been serviced correctly. This was only verbally over the phone, however, and they weren't able to provide written confirmation without inspection cost (advised £1,200-1,500)..

Seems I'm pretty screwed.
 

jeffo

Registered User
Hi Sam,

Sale of goods act is now Consumer Rights Act (changed 2015) and gives more clout to the purchaser it states that if anything major goes awry within six months the fault was deemed to have been there earlier rattle or no rattle so the fault is with the dealer. He tried to fob you off with that warranty that was not worth a toss and now is offering goodwill it seems to me that he is back peddling a bit so offering a little might make you back off and accept his paltry offer.

I know it is hard to push for more when you are in for so much £`s but the blame is fairly and squarely at his door and he should and in my opinion be brought to book for it. Go onto the money saving experts website (Martin Lewis) and read his blogs before you make up mind completely and best of luck which ever route you take keep us up to speed Sam

Cheers.

Jeffo.
 

samcorbridge

Registered User
Hi Sam,

Sale of goods act is now Consumer Rights Act (changed 2015) and gives more clout to the purchaser it states that if anything major goes awry within six months the fault was deemed to have been there earlier rattle or no rattle so the fault is with the dealer. He tried to fob you off with that warranty that was not worth a toss and now is offering goodwill it seems to me that he is back peddling a bit so offering a little might make you back off and accept his paltry offer.

I know it is hard to push for more when you are in for so much £`s but the blame is fairly and squarely at his door and he should and in my opinion be brought to book for it. Go onto the money saving experts website (Martin Lewis) and read his blogs before you make up mind completely and best of luck which ever route you take keep us up to speed Sam

Cheers.

Jeffo.

Hi Jeffo

Thanks for your reply. My understanding of the SOGA/CRA is that within the first 6 months the fault is deemed to have been present at time of purchase *unless* the dealer can prove otherwise. The dealer is stating that it's pretty easy to prove that it wasn't there as there was no rattle.

I would have no problem pushing for more if there was a reasonable explanation of what components are deemed wear and tear. If the chain itself had failed I see this as a pretty straight cut case in my favour. It being the tensioner makes it slightly more tricky. The CAB state the Court would get the advice of a expert, such as a mechanic. This doesn't seem very robust, as it would be a matter of "my" mechanic versus his.

I contacted the civil litigation department of a solicitors firm I have ties with and they couldn't give me a firm answer. It would have taken them several hours to look into it, and given the financial value of the claim any costs wouldn't be recoverable.

The dealer clearly knows his rights. He's said that when he offered the goodwill it would be in full and final settlement of the complaint. This wording, of which I have familiarity with from working for the Ombudsman, gives me some hint that he's underselling me.

Without any clarification on the definition of wear and tear, I'm concerned about investing any further in legal action. If I don't have a case, I know that any goodwill would be withdrawn and it's potentially simpler to just accept it, rightly or wrongly.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.
Sam
 

samuelh_888

Registered User
@samcorbridge - get a legal letter drafted. Of course the dealer will shirk his responsibilities.

Audi haven't recalled this part so they aren't really obliged to help, it's not a serviceable part and is typically expected to last the lifetime of the car - in a way this should be evidence enough that something wasn't right when you purchased.

Regardless, the dealer has an obligation under the SOGA to make right.

You mentioned you didn't have a 3rd party warranty (only the warranty he has to provide as a used car dealer) so I'm not sure why he keeps saying 'if Warranty don't pay out why should he'.

It sounds like your near the end of this saga. I hope he does make a contribution as once you've paid I fear he'll ignore all call.

Good lunch and keep us updated.
 

jeffo

Registered User
Hi Sam,

As Samueih says and Audi have confirmed the chain and tensioner are lifetime parts and should not wear out otherwise they would have some bearing on the service schedule but they are not. I myself would take it to the end unfortunately my pig
headed ness has cost me a lot of money in the past making the wrong choice. I would have a word with Martin Lewis via email first and see what he says but my thinking would be he will say the same as me.

That dealer is just banking on the fact you are a young lad and you dont want to put all your eggs in one basket maybe a call to Carter and Carter Solicitors might yield more concrete advice.

Keep in touch good luck

Jeffo.
 

jeffo

Registered User
As forthe dealer proving there was no rattle how can he do that without audio proof backed up by a video of the actual car running which can be tricked up and if he did have that which I very much doubt why would he have a video/audio proof unless he is trying to hide something.

These type of people really make my blood boil they are always trying to take advantage of small fry like us. B******S

Jeffo
 

Mario

Registered User
Bottom line her is the seller is 100% liable as mentioned above. Get a headed letter from Audi which states this is not a serviceable item and should not have failed at this mileage.

That way, no matter what he said about the rattle you have evidence from the manufacturer that this part failed when it should not have and must have therefore been defective. The fact it happened only 2 months into ownership is the dealers tough luck and works in your favour as those 2 facts (non-serviceable part failed within 2 months of purchase) puts liability 100% on him.

He is trying to fob you off with "good will" bullsh*t. The law is on your side here. He sounds like he can talk a good game about proving it was not there before hand in court.

That is irrelevant if it was there when you bought it or happened 3 weeks later. Bottom line is it happened in the time frame that the CRA deems the seller liable for it, end of discussion. No ifs buts or maybes.
 

samcorbridge

Registered User
Bottom line her is the seller is 100% liable as mentioned above. Get a headed letter from Audi which states this is not a serviceable item and should not have failed at this mileage.

That way, no matter what he said about the rattle you have evidence from the manufacturer that this part failed when it should not have and must have therefore been defective. The fact it happened only 2 months into ownership is the dealers tough luck and works in your favour as those 2 facts (non-serviceable part failed within 2 months of purchase) puts liability 100% on him.

He is trying to fob you off with "good will" bullsh*t. The law is on your side here. He sounds like he can talk a good game about proving it was not there before hand in court.

That is irrelevant if it was there when you bought it or happened 3 weeks later. Bottom line is it happened in the time frame that the CRA deems the seller liable for it, end of discussion. No ifs buts or maybes.

Thanks for your reply Mario. I think the next step is to try and get Audi to put it in writing that they wouldn't expect the part to fail at this age/mileage.

Do you think that they will resist putting this in writing in fear of self implication? If I can't get them to put it in writing, my position is pretty considerably weakened is it not?
 

samcorbridge

Registered User
Forgot to mention this gem. The dealer tried to quantify his statements by telling me that I'm wrong as he's got a degree in Law. Not sure when having a Law degree made you a lawyer..
 

Mario

Registered User
Thanks for your reply Mario. I think the next step is to try and get Audi to put it in writing that they wouldn't expect the part to fail at this age/mileage.

Do you think that they will resist putting this in writing in fear of self implication? If I can't get them to put it in writing, my position is pretty considerably weakened is it not?

Even if they wont specifically say they won't expect it to fail at this age / mileage, you will definitely be able to get information from them that says this is NOT a serviceable item.

Non-serviceable = life of the car, that's all you are trying to prove here, that you were not liable to look after this item during servicing as it is non-serviceable.

There is no implication on them for giving that info as it is common knowledge.

Even better, do an online chat with Audi via their website and get as much info as possible, then download and save a copy of the full conversation. I have done this and their website even has a button to let you download the conversation with full Audi headers, etc.

Forgot to mention this gem. The dealer tried to quantify his statements by telling me that I'm wrong as he's got a degree in Law. Not sure when having a Law degree made you a lawyer..

Just go back and tell him "my brothers, wife's, sisters, aunts, friends, cousin is a judge in the high court".

Realistically that is what he is saying...speaking total, utter SH*TE!!
 

samcorbridge

Registered User
Got the car back today. Garage want it back thurs/fri to check everything is running okay and not wearing or using too much oil. Car seems great except some whine from the turbo which wasn't there before the timing chain went. We will see if this reduces with mileage...

Total cost came to £2995+VAT.

Waiting on a reply from Audi regarding getting written confirmation of the tensioner not being in the service schedule. We'll see how/if they respond. Once I've heard back from them will get onto the dealer again before potentially escalating it.

Just happy to have the car back..and praying the turbo is okay!
 

Reddaddy67

Registered User
Hope everything goes ok this week, it's always good getting your car back after major surgery. Fingers crossed for the turbo for you.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
 

samcorbridge

Registered User
So the noise wasn't the turbo, it was actually the tensioner again. Got the car back again today after having it stripped down again and another tensioner fitted. Seems that as it's had another oil pump and the uprated tensioner, the oil pressure is somewhat higher than it was before and causing too much tension in the chain. We're going to put some miles on it and hopefully it'll completely die down, it's certainly much quieter than it was.

Audi Warrington responded with this "Apologies in the delayed reply.

Due to not seeing the vehicle physically I am unable to give you anything in writing for legal reasons and due to company policies.

As also stated in previous conversations, me and yourself don’t really know how the car has been driven during its life to date.

Sorry, as I would really like to be of more help but as we are not involved in the purchase of the vehicle or taken a booking with the vehicle on site I therefore cannot comment on what I think or suspect.

I really hope you get the outcome you deserve soon."


So not really too sure where to go now. Maybe I'll have another go with Audi UK next week, but beginning to lose patience.
 
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