All wheel drive ("quattro") is awesome

[d1ez3]

After driving RWD and FWD vehicles my whole life, this is my first time in an AWD car. Coming from my previous Infiniti Q50 Hybrid, driving this car in less than ideal conditions and rain is a dream. In my Infiniti just stepping on the gas slightly hard would cause it to spin or fishtail. You had to drive extremely carefully in the rain (the car actually ended up hydroplaning on the highway and why I now have an S3).
With the S3, I can actually take off hard off the line and the car doesn't care at all that the road is wet and it is raining, and that is just crazy to me and so confidence inspiring. Obviously I know the limits and am careful, but with my previous cars driving in the rain was a nightmare, with the Audi, it's actually enjoyable and I look forward to it.

I didn't really have a point to this thread, I'm just excited at how well this car handles bad weather. It is a huge selling point that I didn't even really consider much when purchasing.

 

[cemerson]

Same for me. I was forced to have a Quattro because of the engine and gearbox I wanted, but I'm very impressed with it. Corners much better too!

 

[RichardT]

If your previous car slipped in the wet under normal driving, I would say there was something wrong.

 

[Liquidfusion-S3]

Sorry I haven't really been following the face lift A3/S3, but isn't it only a quattro with it 90% being front wheel and 10% rear?

Not quite a true Quattro, more like a FWD car.

Something to do with Haldex....


How does it work for smaller Audis?
Some more compact Audis, including the A3 and TT, employ a different quattro system, featuring a device called a Haldex unit. In contrast to a Torsen system, they send nearly all of the engine’s torque to the front wheels in normal conditions. If they detect a wheel slipping, however, a secondary clutch can kick in to divert as much as 100 per cent of the torque to the rear wheels.

This difference between Haldex and Torsen systems means some die-hard Audi fans will often refer to cars equipped with the Torsen system as ‘true quattros’. Unless you regularly push your car to its limit, however, you probably won’t notice any great difference between how these cars feel to drive.

https://www.carwow.co.uk/guides/glossary/audi-quattro-system-explained

 

[Lehn]

Sorry I haven't really been following the face lift A3/S3, but isn't it only a quattro with it 90% being front wheel and 10% rear?

Not quite a true Quattro, more like a FWD car.

Something to do with Haldex....


How does it work for smaller Audis?
Some more compact Audis, including the A3 and TT, employ a different quattro system, featuring a device called a Haldex unit. In contrast to a Torsen system, they send nearly all of the engine’s torque to the front wheels in normal conditions. If they detect a wheel slipping, however, a secondary clutch can kick in to divert as much as 100 per cent of the torque to the rear wheels.

This difference between Haldex and Torsen systems means some die-hard Audi fans will often refer to cars equipped with the Torsen system as ‘true quattros’. Unless you regularly push your car to its limit, however, you probably won’t notice any great difference between how these cars feel to drive.

https://www.carwow.co.uk/guides/glossary/audi-quattro-system-explained

In some conditions the distribution can be around 10/90 to the rear wheels, or so have I heard. No one seems to have a definitive answer.

 

[Soulboy]

Does the Haldex not work as follows;
Front wheel drive by default - then fully variable 4WD kicks in if it starts to lose traction (generally in circumstances when ESP light would be flashing on dash)

 

[Liquidfusion-S3]

Does the Haldex not work as follows;
Front wheel drive by default - then fully variable 4WD kicks in if it starts to lose traction (generally in circumstances when ESP light would be flashing on dash)

Yes that's what I heard aswell, so not quite a true quattro as many people are lead to believe.

Unlike the S4 ect which are

 

[LHD_Kid]

And the S2 and older which use proper crown pinion diff....

Haldex...... pfffffff...

 

[GSB]

Does the Haldex not work as follows;
Front wheel drive by default - then fully variable 4WD kicks in if it starts to lose traction (generally in circumstances when ESP light would be flashing on dash)

No...

This is how the very first viscous coupling types worked. Current Haldex is an active system and will run with significant torque transmission to the rear axles in almost all circumstances.

 

[GSB]

Now I've had a chance to read this thread through, there's a few things I think we should clarify in the name of getting the facts straight and not having yet another thread full of quattro mis-information.

All wheel drive will help you accelerate better, and make more use of the power you have since it is shared between four rather than two driving wheels. When it comes to braking and cornering though, you're no better off than you are in a front drive or rear drive car.

Sorry I haven't really been following the face lift A3/S3, but isn't it only a quattro with it 90% being front wheel and 10% rear?

Not quite a true Quattro, more like a FWD car.

Something to do with Haldex....


How does it work for smaller Audis?
Some more compact Audis, including the A3 and TT, employ a different quattro system, featuring a device called a Haldex unit. In contrast to a Torsen system, they send nearly all of the engine’s torque to the front wheels in normal conditions. If they detect a wheel slipping, however, a secondary clutch can kick in to divert as much as 100 per cent of the torque to the rear wheels.

This difference between Haldex and Torsen systems means some die-hard Audi fans will often refer to cars equipped with the Torsen system as ‘true quattros’. Unless you regularly push your car to its limit, however, you probably won’t notice any great difference between how these cars feel to drive.

https://www.carwow.co.uk/guides/glossary/audi-quattro-system-explained

This Carwow article is ill-informed, inaccurate, and essentially, a load of old ********. The purists will crow on about the superiority of Torsen all wheel drive over Haldex, but Torsen has some very big limitations too. Not many people seem to appreciate for instance that a Torsen differential while fiendishly complicated and mechanically very clever, is not a true locking differential. So if we're judging a system by how much torque can be delivered to the front or rear axle, then Haldex can deliver more, and in fact when employed in a true 4x4 (i.e,, one that might just encounter a challenging bit of mud and place it's wheels in a position of having zero traction from time to time) such as a Freelander, then it will deliver anywhere from 100% front to 100% rear, all without the need for the weight, complexity and packaging issues that come with a centre differential.

"True" Quattro, as fitted to the eponymous rally cars and touted as the finest piece of engineering design ever to come out of Ingolstadt, has all the sophistication of the system fitted to an early Land Rover. It was not a ground breaking system. Only its use in a road car was ground breaking, and even then its biggest advantage was in its ability to make a load of humdrum German cars very much more appealing to the buying public. Even now, this is quattro's chief aim and success. It may sound cynical, but it's quattros grip on wallets that is the reason it still exists, not its grip on slippery tarmac. Torsen, also touted as "proper' quattro is essentially the same system, but dumbed down in ultimate ability so that it didn't have to be switched on and off by the driver, didn't wind up the driveline, and could handle a bit of tyre slip now and then without losing all sense of making progress.

 

[Liquidfusion-S3]

Now I've had a chance to read this thread through, there's a few things I think we should clarify in the name of getting the facts straight and not having yet another thread full of quattro mis-information.

All wheel drive will help you accelerate better, and make more use of the power you have since it is shared between four rather than two driving wheels. When it comes to braking and cornering though, you're no better off than you are in a front drive or rear drive car.




This Carwow article is ill-informed, inaccurate, and essentially, a load of old ********. The purists will crow on about the superiority of Torsen all wheel drive over Haldex, but Torsen has some very big limitations too. Not many people seem to appreciate for instance that a Torsen differential while fiendishly complicated and mechanically very clever, is not a true locking differential. So if we're judging a system by how much torque can be delivered to the front or rear axle, then Haldex can deliver more, and in fact when employed in a true 4x4 (i.e,, one that might just encounter a challenging bit of mud and place it's wheels in a position of having zero traction from time to time) such as a Freelander, then it will deliver anywhere from 100% front to 100% rear, all without the need for the weight, complexity and packaging issues that come with a centre differential.

"True" Quattro, as fitted to the eponymous rally cars and touted as the finest piece of engineering design ever to come out of Ingolstadt, has all the sophistication of the system fitted to an early Land Rover. It was not a ground breaking system. Only its use in a road car was ground breaking, and even then its biggest advantage was in its ability to make a load of humdrum German cars very much more appealing to the buying public. Even now, this is quattro's chief aim and success. It may sound cynical, but it's quattros grip on wallets that is the reason it still exists, not its grip on slippery tarmac. Torsen, also touted as "proper' quattro is essentially the same system, but dumbed down in ultimate ability so that it didn't have to be switched on and off by the driver, didn't wind up the driveline, and could handle a bit of tyre slip now and then without losing all sense of making progress.

Thank you for correcting me, learn something new every day

 

[GSB]

Thank you for correcting me, learn something new every day

Not correcting you as such, but I'm definitely wondering how many more times we're going to read that Haldex works only by reacting to front wheel slip in the pages of an actual audi enthusiasts forum...

 

[cemerson]

When it comes to braking and cornering though, you're no better off than you are in a front drive or rear drive car.

It certainly feels nicer to corner. There are many other differences between my old and new car though so perhaps I'm attributing that to quattro when it isn't. I never get that feeling of having taken a corner slightly too fast in the new car though.

 

[TYb]

It came in useful today when trying to get out of a muddy field at Gatcombe, several front wheel drives couldn't get traction in the mud but the S3 didn't have any issues at all.

It is brown now though!

 

[Timi8888]

Now I've had a chance to read this thread through, there's a few things I think we should clarify in the name of getting the facts straight and not having yet another thread full of quattro mis-information.

All wheel drive will help you accelerate better, and make more use of the power you have since it is shared between four rather than two driving wheels. When it comes to braking and cornering though, you're no better off than you are in a front drive or rear drive car.




This Carwow article is ill-informed, inaccurate, and essentially, a load of old ********. The purists will crow on about the superiority of Torsen all wheel drive over Haldex, but Torsen has some very big limitations too. Not many people seem to appreciate for instance that a Torsen differential while fiendishly complicated and mechanically very clever, is not a true locking differential. So if we're judging a system by how much torque can be delivered to the front or rear axle, then Haldex can deliver more, and in fact when employed in a true 4x4 (i.e,, one that might just encounter a challenging bit of mud and place it's wheels in a position of having zero traction from time to time) such as a Freelander, then it will deliver anywhere from 100% front to 100% rear, all without the need for the weight, complexity and packaging issues that come with a centre differential.

"True" Quattro, as fitted to the eponymous rally cars and touted as the finest piece of engineering design ever to come out of Ingolstadt, has all the sophistication of the system fitted to an early Land Rover. It was not a ground breaking system. Only its use in a road car was ground breaking, and even then its biggest advantage was in its ability to make a load of humdrum German cars very much more appealing to the buying public. Even now, this is quattro's chief aim and success. It may sound cynical, but it's quattros grip on wallets that is the reason it still exists, not its grip on slippery tarmac. Torsen, also touted as "proper' quattro is essentially the same system, but dumbed down in ultimate ability so that it didn't have to be switched on and off by the driver, didn't wind up the driveline, and could handle a bit of tyre slip now and then without losing all sense of making progress.

No better off when cornering with Quattro, are you sure? They feel a lot more planted on roundabouts when going fast that's for sure!

 

[Tom.H]

No...

This is how the very first viscous coupling types worked. Current Haldex is an active system and will run with significant torque transmission to the rear axles in almost all circumstances.

This isn't the reply I was expecting from you.

Now I've had a chance to read this thread through, there's a few things I think we should clarify in the name of getting the facts straight and not having yet another thread full of quattro mis-information.

All wheel drive will help you accelerate better, and make more use of the power you have since it is shared between four rather than two driving wheels. When it comes to braking and cornering though, you're no better off than you are in a front drive or rear drive car.




This Carwow article is ill-informed, inaccurate, and essentially, a load of old ********. The purists will crow on about the superiority of Torsen all wheel drive over Haldex, but Torsen has some very big limitations too. Not many people seem to appreciate for instance that a Torsen differential while fiendishly complicated and mechanically very clever, is not a true locking differential. So if we're judging a system by how much torque can be delivered to the front or rear axle, then Haldex can deliver more, and in fact when employed in a true 4x4 (i.e,, one that might just encounter a challenging bit of mud and place it's wheels in a position of having zero traction from time to time) such as a Freelander, then it will deliver anywhere from 100% front to 100% rear, all without the need for the weight, complexity and packaging issues that come with a centre differential.

"True" Quattro, as fitted to the eponymous rally cars and touted as the finest piece of engineering design ever to come out of Ingolstadt, has all the sophistication of the system fitted to an early Land Rover. It was not a ground breaking system. Only its use in a road car was ground breaking, and even then its biggest advantage was in its ability to make a load of humdrum German cars very much more appealing to the buying public. Even now, this is quattro's chief aim and success. It may sound cynical, but it's quattros grip on wallets that is the reason it still exists, not its grip on slippery tarmac. Torsen, also touted as "proper' quattro is essentially the same system, but dumbed down in ultimate ability so that it didn't have to be switched on and off by the driver, didn't wind up the driveline, and could handle a bit of tyre slip now and then without losing all sense of making progress.

However, this is!

 

[trappyj]

If you've got your foot down when cornering then Quattro will help, it's when you take your foot off you'll have problems. Living in Milton Keynes I have lots of experience taking roundabouts in the wet.

 

[GSB]

No better off when cornering with Quattro, are you sure? They feel a lot more planted on roundabouts when going fast that's for sure!

For us mere mortals, prone to applying throttle, wheel and brake at exactly the wrong time, all wheel drive can be a more forgiving way to shuffle power around, less likely to send you understeering into the Armco or burying it **** first through a hedge. By doubling the number of driven wheels you are effectively halving the amount of drive power each wheel has to deal with, critical when you're already asking said wheels to brake, steer and deal with puddles bumps and ruts. But, it's a placebo, flattering the driver into thinking it's fast by feeling fast. Don't be fooled though, a two wheel drive chassis driving one end will always be faster than a car carrying around the equivalent an additional passenger in extra ironmongery.

Take a look at the lap records for that godawful German backlane that passes for a race track, and see that in the world of serious hot hatches, front drive dominates, with the Golf Gti Clubsport a full 36 seconds faster than the nearest AWD car, the more powerful Focus RS. Take a close look at purely AWD times, and you'll see there's only five all wheel drive production cars that have ever managed to get round in less than seven and a half minutes. (ironically enough, "true quattro" fans, the quickest of them all is a Haldex equipped car...)

Personally, I like the security of AWD. I like the fact that I can do really dumb things like plant my foot in the carpet mid corner and get away with it, and I like the fact that it never squeals it's tyres and makes me look like a bell-end. However, I hate the fact that the car is so prone to pushing on, I hate the fact that it's such a blunt instrument when it could be surgically precise, and having grown up with rear drive cars unencumbered by such things as ABS, ESP, EBD (and, come to think of it, power), I really think that people seeking to find out how a good a car really is really ought to turn all that **** off and try it out bareback, so to speak. I've tried it in the S3, and it's ****** horrible. It has all the poise, agility and on-the-limit delicacy in a series of bumpy back lane corners of Steven Hawkings wheelchair.

This is not a car to enjoy at the limit then. This is a car to enjoy at 7 or 8 tenths, when it's making all the right noises, making straights disappear in record time, finding traction to accelerate in the middle of corners (that better drivers wouldn't have needed as they'd have just gone faster in the first place) and making me feel like a ****** hero. Compare and contrast to a real drivers rear drive chassis though. When you get that through a series of fast bends at 8/10ths, you might not even be as fast, but you actually are a ****** hero...

 

[LJC105]

I like the fact that I can do really dumb things like plant my foot in the carpet mid corner and get away with it, and I like the fact that it never squeals it's tyres and makes me look like a bell-end.

I put mine under a tiny bit of throttle out of a corner in no antisocial manner, yet mine still makes me look like a yobbo...

 

[4K]

For us mere mortals, prone to applying throttle, wheel and brake at exactly the wrong time, all wheel drive can be a more forgiving way to shuffle power around, less likely to send you understeering into the Armco or burying it **** first through a hedge. By doubling the number of driven wheels you are effectively halving the amount of drive power each wheel has to deal with, critical when you're already asking said wheels to brake, steer and deal with puddles bumps and ruts. But, it's a placebo, flattering the driver into thinking it's fast by feeling fast. Don't be fooled though, a two wheel drive chassis driving one end will always be faster than a car carrying around the equivalent an additional passenger in extra ironmongery.

Take a look at the lap records for that godawful German backlane that passes for a race track, and see that in the world of serious hot hatches, front drive dominates, with the Golf Gti Clubsport a full 36 seconds faster than the nearest AWD car, the more powerful Focus RS. Take a close look at purely AWD times, and you'll see there's only five all wheel drive production cars that have ever managed to get round in less than seven and a half minutes. (ironically enough, "true quattro" fans, the quickest of them all is a Haldex equipped car...)

Personally, I like the security of AWD. I like the fact that I can do really dumb things like plant my foot in the carpet mid corner and get away with it, and I like the fact that it never squeals it's tyres and makes me look like a bell-end. However, I hate the fact that the car is so prone to pushing on, I hate the fact that it's such a blunt instrument when it could be surgically precise, and having grown up with rear drive cars unencumbered by such things as ABS, ESP, EBD (and, come to think of it, power), I really think that people seeking to find out how a good a car really is really ought to turn all that **** off and try it out bareback, so to speak. I've tried it in the S3, and it's ****** horrible. It has all the poise, agility and on-the-limit delicacy in a series of bumpy back lane corners of Steven Hawkings wheelchair.

This is not a car to enjoy at the limit then. This is a car to enjoy at 7 or 8 tenths, when it's making all the right noises, making straights disappear in record time, finding traction to accelerate in the middle of corners (that better drivers wouldn't have needed as they'd have just gone faster in the first place) and making me feel like a ****** hero. Compare and contrast to a real drivers rear drive chassis though. When you get that through a series of fast bends at 8/10ths, you might not even be as fast, but you actually are a ****** hero...

Those last two paragraphs pretty much sum up my experience of the car after nearly 2 years of ownership. The car has incredible pace, but I struggle to actually find anything symbiotically good about it other than being able to beat people at traffic lights at silly speeds, which just appear normal and muted when you're sat in the cockpit. It's actually deceptive, as you don't actually feel that engaged with the car or the pace at which you're going at all. That's part of the reason I'm shortly going to be taking out an M240i for a weekend and seeing if driving can actually be engaging and enjoyable again.