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Facelift Advice on next car

Thundercliffe81 Aug 7, 2018

  1. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Yo!

    It's been a heck of a long time since I was on here. Still following posts though.

    It's been 20 months of ownership (PCP) with my B9 S4 Avant in Daytona Grey and Magma interior with Carbon.

    It's effortless. It's so capable in the bad weather. With Nokian Winters on it never broke a sweat in the brutal winter we had. Was for us anyway in the hills. But...I don't love it. I've never quite gelled with it. Seems mad doesn't it? Ticks all boxes except for emotion.

    However, the main reason for the change is PCP. Ohhhhh yes, that old topic. Dr. Eskimo and gang haha. I'm converted. PCP just isn't for me at all and it's a lesson I had to learn on my own. In my own time. I want an asset as well as a car I'm passionate about.

    The plan? In 2-3 years, I want to have an asset that's all mine but something I really enjoy or love. Free of finance, free from big monthly outgoings and able to thoroughly enjoy and save my decent income. Want to be able to buy cars that I've always fancied at the £20-25k mark. Cash. A rolling asset with a bit of depreciation expected but on the whole...a big chunk of money in something I love. Just fuel and sundries.

    I don't care what the negative equity is on my S4 (although I am accurately tracking it). I'll have £20k cash deposit by end of year and I'm ok with a bank loan (if possible) or finance from my dealer (who is great at hacking out a deal) for an extra £10k maximum. This is 'not' an either/or straight sensible/heart plan or decision. It's not clear cut. So try consider that before abusing me haha.

    I've driven the S6 Saloon recently and 35-50k mile examples on a 2015/16 facelift are to be had for £27-28k. Bargain! The engine is superb. Delivery brilliant. Exhaust mod required? Absolutely! But easy to do. The engine has real potential and the air suspension can be lowered in VCDS. I also really like how custom you can make it. Cracking interior with Carbon fibre. Prefer it to the B9 S4. Perfect balance. S6 felt special surprisingly. We were quite impressed. Better than we thought.

    The competition? RS4 B8 Avant. Sub £30k with about 40-50k miles. Drove a 2014 one a few years back. Special car. No doubt. Smiles for days right out the box. Complete heart decision. High revving NA V8 has been on my radar for years but at a cost...fuel. Shockingly so. I drove it hard. But not absolute full chat and I was unnerved by the consumption. Read plenty of owners reviews and 16mpg seems the norm. Might be getting a transfer next year which would mean a weekend round trip of 700+ miles for 6 months. This is a factor.

    So, basically, I've asked my dealer what the depreciation for both examples on used market (above) is likely to be over next 2-3 years as well as fuel and running/maintenance costs. I did find a fantastic mpg calculator site here

    https://www.nextgreencar.com/tools/fuel-cost-calculator/

    It's a fair old difference between the two if I'm honest. That S6 twin turbo V8 is a very clever thing. The perfect test would be to have one of each for a week at a time but I'll struggle to get that with used market. For the record, Sytner Group in the North are a joke. Rude and just unprofessional. My dealer is on the south coast so hard to get a week loaner unfortunately.

    Throw it all at me. There are some really savvy people on here I've come to realise as well as some over opinionated (not many...usually RS3 forums ) fuel/running costs/depreciation are the head Factors.

    Handling/sound/mod potential are the heart Factors. I'm genuinely not worried about sound on the S6. It's easy to sort and there are copious options for an animal sound.

    I'm leaning towards S6 for purchase and bit of finance and then maybe get the RS4 in cash outright in 2-3 years. Great low mileage example at £20k-ish.

    Cheers all. I look forward to the abuse and insight.


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  3. Riko0073

    Riko0073 Well-Known Member Team Daytona V6T Audi S4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Hey car twin!

    I understand your dilemma mate, the S4 is such an amazing all rounder and hasn’t put a foot wrong for me with nearly a year of ownership, however I know what you mean about PCP as it’s never really sat comfortably with me although the last 3 cars have been via this route.

    I’m looking ahead for the next purchase and like you after something that I can buy outright and other than some depreciation and usual running costs, I’d like something a bit special.

    Currently leaning towards a Porsche 911 (997) but would have to wait at least 2 years until kids were older, or like yourself a B8 RS4 would be lovely.

    I drove my mates 2015 S6 Avant recently and although the engine pulled like a steam train and sounded good, the car just felt too big and heavy, interior was nice but felt dated and creaked a bit and didn’t feel special enough over the current S4, getting back in that just felt so much nicer....but nice only goes so far!

    I’ve never done the modding route but I do wonder how the S4 would be with a tuning box or remap and aftermarket exhaust etc, some subtle styling cues could give it that much needed aggressive look and keep me attached to it for a good few years?

    Do you have family and need the space, I assume as you’re looking at biggish cars still then you do need the practicality of an estate/big saloon?

    I’ve also considered a ‘weekend’ car for the garage and just keep the S4 for work, trips away etc, a 1st gen TT Sport, S2000 or even an Abarth 595 for a bit of fun, however can’t get my head around double the insurance/tax etc!

    It still sounds like you’ve got that V8 itch to scratch and I wouldn’t blame you in going for a lovely low mileage B8 RS4, I saw a B7 RS4 today and couldn’t help but look at it and admire, something the S4 doesn’t give me even though it’s a handsome estate.

    Decisions decisions mate, look forward to hearing your updates and test drives.
     
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  4. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Haha. Hello there. Yeah we went through the build pains on here.

    Appreciate you taking the time to read through. On paper, what's there not to love about the S4? It just sticks like glue and can pretty much go anywhere with foot planted. Without traction issues.

    Exhaust is more exciting than my B8.5 and interior is next level. Just missing something. My mate went through the figures with me today and we both said the 911 territory was a very understandable proposition if you didn't need the space. Proper drivers car. S2000? Boom! That would be fun.

    We actually really like big cars with big engines. Don't ask me why as it makes zero sense haha. The new E63 is an absolute house of a car but you just would...after the RS6 obviously

    Yeah I'm still after space and the S6 Saloon boot is massive! No worries there. We basically leaned towards to the S6 with an AWE Touring exhaust mod. Carbon inlays, black exterior pack in Daytona. Probably larger offset wheels and RS6 grille. You really can turn these things into animals. And cylinder on demand with a 400mile range is very obtainable. Will I get an RS4? Absolutely. My mind is saying get one when they've depreciated more and have no Finance for one. Then just dedicate your savings to the fuel haha. It's the more enjoyable car. I'm not an idiot. But, all I really want is a fantastic, aggressive V8 sound with handsome looks. Sport diff is standard and can be lowered.

    I could just go and buy an £18k RS6 C6 V10 Saloon and think "Oh, what a really fair price for a super waggon..." The S6 is more exciting than my S4 and I think, for now, that might just be enough. RS6 Performance is the end game!

    I see B7s frequently and looked after, they are such a handsome car. You don't realise how punched out those arches are at first. It's a cracking car. Can you believe they're still going for the same price as a B8 RS4 with 40k miles?!

    You could mod the S4. Aesthetically, Xenons UK have some awesome parts. As do ECS. Splitters, diffusers etc that all really add to the B9. Miltek is expensive. At that price I'd look at AWE Touring or Track exhaust. But, V6 just doesn't float my boat anymore. Ultimately, do what we done and play the Autotrader game.

    Sub 50k miles
    £30k max limit
    Min engine size 4L

    You will be 'staggered' at what you can get. A true cornucopia my friend. Trust me.


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  5. Daggerit

    Daggerit Well-Known Member Team Floret Silver TFSI Owners Group Team V6 Audi S4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro

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    It's the same but better. And more exciting with the exhaust done as well... ;)
     
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  6. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Did you get a tune?


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  7. Daggerit

    Daggerit Well-Known Member Team Floret Silver TFSI Owners Group Team V6 Audi S4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro

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    There aren't any proper ECU tunes available that I'm aware of yet but I do have the DTUK box fitted which is really good. Puts down something in the region of 410PS and 630Nm so it's plenty fast. With the exhaust is makes it a little more special of an experience too.
     
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  8. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Easy switch for servicing and warranty concerns though, a chip tune


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  9. doncarlyon

    doncarlyon Member

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    It reads to me that you need a commute car and a toy... have you considered that?
     
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  10. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    In some ways yes but...my idea of toy is a commute car with a nuke under the bonnet haha. RS4 does appear to be really holding its value. A lot earlier than I thought it would Level off.

    As an argument for fuel spent in it vs its lesser depreciation over the S6 (with added mods and £s) could it be worth it just taking the hit now and having an RS asset over an 'S' asset? This is why I've put it to you guys...more experience.


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  11. doncarlyon

    doncarlyon Member

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    It sounds to me that the RS4 is the one you "want" and the S6 is a nice compromise.
     
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  13. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Spot on.

    Where as the S4 was a big compromise in terms of engine the S6 did feel special. Again, surprisingly...

    Anyone who knows me on here knows the RS4 is a dream haha. I'll find out if I'm gonna be posted 350 miles away for 6 months round about October. When I'm in a position to change cars also. 61L tank and 16mpg is hardcore math And cannot be ignored.

    The effortless low end rumble of the S6 (with a mod) does appeal. RS4 main excitement range ,or even just the point in having it, exists between 4500-8250rpm. Coincidentally this is next door to where Mr. V Power lives. I won't get into the torque debate because after speaking to owners, it's just a myth. Unless someone knows otherwise? My mate is buying a C63 tomorrow. His dream. 5 years we've dreamed of these cars. Wow. But he's gonna keep that thing for life/until it falls apart. But I'd keep an RS4 for about a year ideally. Just to experience it. RS6 is my keeper.

    So looking at that, does it make sense to buy one, paying it off for two years then selling it? I'd love the thing no doubt. This is what I'm struggling with. The better asset through ownership/maintenance and how much they will be worth in 2 years time.

    14 plate RS4/45k miles/£29k

    15 plate S6/35k miles/£27k

    17000 miles a year.

    2 years of ownership. Running/Maintenance/Depreciation. Would appreciate the input from anyone. Fuel wise I used a really great comparison calculator (real world) and with my mileage the RS4 is munching £2k minimum, more than S6. More if I get posted for 6 months.


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  14. A12RNX

    A12RNX Active Member TeamMisano Team V6 saloon Audi S4 Audi A6

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    the rs4 would hold value much better because they have brought out the rs4 b9 it still held quite well. Once a new s6 has been released the s6 on a 15 plate would drop quite alot I imagine.

    I had the same dilemma when getting my current s4 but because I already have an A6 the interior apart from the carbon bits didn’t change so felt like the same car except the speed.

    I’m holding out for the new rs6 to come out to make the current rs6 price drop more, hopefully around to the 35-40k mark there almost there now and I think that would be more car than I would ever need.

    Having 2 cars isn’t much more expensive than one. Because my s4 only gets driven on weekends and some evenings or when going somewhere nice, the fuel and maintence cost are a averaged out which then pays for the tax and insurance. Multi car does save you a lot of money.
     
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  15. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Hey bud. Cheers for getting in touch.

    The new S6 might not kill the V8 S6 residual. Just because it's a V6. But...the S6 never really sold because the RS4 was similar price and RS6 used was a great argument. So maybe you're right there.

    RS6s are sub £40k now with higher mileage on a PFL. I'm holding out the Performance FL down the line as a long term keeper. The two car proposition is where I plan to be 3 years from now. Zero car finance or loan payments. Probably run an RS and an Abarth or something. Don't have the space right now and need to fund getting out of PCP and car finance forever over next 2 years.

    You know of any decent depreciation calculators?


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  16. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Well. Wow.

    Found a depreciation calculator and put in my mileage and insurance costs. Reputable website too but, this seems very steep. Especially the servicing costs

    [​IMG]

    Obviously it's a rough guide.

    [​IMG]

    Not much in it for annual depreciation. Annual costs though have a noticeable difference.


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    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  17. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member TFSI Owners Group saloon Audi A4 S-line owners group

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    Servicing :scared2::scared2::scared2:
     
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  18. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Yeahhhhhh. I don't buy it. Not from what I know about the cars and owners. Brakes can be £1500 but that's a fraction of the servicing and certainly isn't an annual cost! Haha. Did I use a race car depreciation calculator by mistake?


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  19. A12RNX

    A12RNX Active Member TeamMisano Team V6 saloon Audi S4 Audi A6

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    It is a hard one lots of pros and cons for each car. If it was me I would get the RS4. The S6 is a lovely car but won’t turn heads like the RS4 does and every time I see one on the road the way they look with the low and wide look makes me want one.

    Also if you are going for an RS6 in the future it will feel more special because the interior would be completely different. If you pair the RS4 with an Abarth as a daily driver it would never get boring or slow and will feel much more refined.

    Also if you tune/ modify the S6 it will appeal to less people when you resell so may make it harder to sell.
     
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  20. Spaceman_RS3

    Spaceman_RS3 Well-Known Member Team Ibis Team Panther Audi RS3 Audi S4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Remember on these commutes the rs4 won’t be doing 16mpg my b7 done 35mpg on cruise at 75 to Aberdeen and back not too bad for a 4.2v8 very similar to the b8 one
     
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  21. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    This is a great angle/viewpoint. And was only really at the back of my mind. The interior jump and overall wow factor in the future. I think for the extra fuel costs, I'm hoping the resale value of an RS4 will really hold up. Which looking at the B7...ad long as the car held up over £20k in next 2 years I'd be well happy.

    That puts me in the position I want. Out of finance with a £20k asset. A car I love.


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  22. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    At 75??? Was that at about 2100rpm? That's well impressive for that engine. My B8.5 S4 at 75 was just under 2000rpm in 7th gear. Got me about 44mpg on long run. So yeah...that would seem pretty doable mate.

    This is the kind of info I like. Why I started the thread. It's all helping I guess I've just been adding up mileage as s whole variable in the math and not what 'kind' of mileage the extra distance would be if I got posted down south. Cheers mate


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  23. q5man

    q5man Mythos Appreciator Team Mythos TFSI Owners Group Gold Supporter quattro Audi Q5

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    agree, I would SO go with a RS4, a real head turner, and absolute beast, as is the RS6 :hubbahubba:
     
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  24. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Can I ask what your average AND best tank ranges were please? Not a like for like comparison but close.


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  25. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    I've loved it since 2012 mate. You're right. Heart wants what the heart wants and in a position to get this in motion.


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  26. Riko0073

    Riko0073 Well-Known Member Team Daytona V6T Audi S4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Yeah I’m going to have to take the plunge soon!
     
  27. Spaceman_RS3

    Spaceman_RS3 Well-Known Member Team Ibis Team Panther Audi RS3 Audi S4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    I’m trying to remember didn’t take much notice was purely a toy that I could hammer up back roads etc and when on it properly was down to 9mpg average cutting about was 19-20 tank ranges I don’t remember only that 75 on the cruise control to Aberdeen the average mpg on the trip was around mid 30’s it’s wasnt bad from the tank I could get what 300+ prob 350
    Normal hooning was prob around 200 or less. It does the cruising very well. It was in 6th gear and manual box not sure the rpm
     
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  28. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Yeah, ya know what...that's kind of what I expected. Anything above 300 would be a bonus. 200 appears to be the low average too. Small tank isn't it. My S4 has a 58L tank


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  29. Spaceman_RS3

    Spaceman_RS3 Well-Known Member Team Ibis Team Panther Audi RS3 Audi S4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Yea the b7 wasn’t the largest not sure if b8 had larger.

    Long and short is stop ******* about and get the b8 rs4 end of
     
  30. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Yes. The dealer knows. I am signing for my bonus next month and it's getting done asap. The time is now!! Cannot wait.


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  31. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    So. What a day.

    Out in my mates' C63 all day. Just a complete and utter menace. Smile machine!!

    Then, test drive a lovely spec RS4 Avant and my mate let me drive his C63 back to back.

    RS4 dynamic steering is awful!!!! I don't remember it being that bad. But yeah. It is. Oh. And quiet. Now, the C63 had secondary decat. So maybe not fair. But I smiled more in the C63. Mate is a great driver though. I only fettled with the sound and power but wow. Just, felt very conscious of what I was driving and felt a bit mad. But today, in the rain, it was very composed. I was shocked. Turn in is phenomenal and the hydraulic steering is a win.

    So now. C63 with performance pack at about £26k vs RS4 at about £30k. Madness. Truly can't decide. Two utterly different experiences. Watching recent videos, the RS4 sports exhaust seemed great. Loud. Especially the TR Hamza review. But, only time it got me smiling was downshifting to 2nd and revving in neutral. As a daily I think I'd love it. But needs an exhaust mod (more money) and isn't as exciting out the box.

    Thing is...winter. And is a C63 with performance pack an equal daily? Haha. As of this morning, I never considered one. Damn it!


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    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  32. Robbe

    Robbe Well-Known Member Team Daytona Team V6 Audi S4 Audi A4

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    Go with your heart. I love my B9 S4 but every now and then I do miss the RS4. Mostly from the outside. Inside The S4 feels and looks better. That’s what puts me off getting anothe RS4. The S6 is a compromise but it’s a fast arm chair. Can do silly speeds with no effort required and is a great cruiser. It is heavy and not as fun in twisty roads as the RS4 or the S4. In the end go with what makes you happy. Life is to short to worry and as long as your can afford it go with your heart.
     
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  34. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Oh I'm with you mate. The RS4 is just a heart melter of a car in the looks department. The torque from the C63 and rumble and theatre are insane. It was like...going to the dark side. Ever driven one?

    Did you have DRC on your RS4? The C63 corners flat and the ride quality was great. I could do without the dynamic steering in all honesty. But comes with sport pack and DRC really helps combat roll.

    For no other reason than, what a car do to a petrolhead. Excuse language.



    Will a res delete create this noise and unleash the engine in an RS4?


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  35. Jcbmally

    Jcbmally Started with nothing & still have most of it left. Team Ibis Audi S3 quattro Sportback S tronic

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    Now what's better than putting the s***s up your mate, that's cool :superman:
     
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  36. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Nothing like it man. We used to dream of this kind of power about 5 years back. Where on Earth do you go after a car like that? Haha.


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  37. Jcbmally

    Jcbmally Started with nothing & still have most of it left. Team Ibis Audi S3 quattro Sportback S tronic

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    Possible part ex with a space shuttle :yes:, nah, scratch that, the C63 will be quicker :respekt:
     
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  38. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Job done tbh. Up there with the Capristo exhaust IMO and half the price. Less! Probably take centre muffler out or resonators until I can afford the install. Unless I find a bargain.


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  39. Robbe

    Robbe Well-Known Member Team Daytona Team V6 Audi S4 Audi A4

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    Mine did have DRC and dynamic steering. I drove it all the time in dynamic as prefere a harder rider. Was a great cruiser and can easily eat the miles up. If you can overcome the fact the interior is not as a good as the B9 and get a new exhaust you will be more then happy. Just remember to stock up on parts going cheap on eBay as consumables are expensive. Well mostly the brakes.
     
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  40. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Yeah I seen that some dealerships used to sell OEM parts and overstock quite cheap. Probably go after aftermarket on brakes when the originals go. When are they replaced? Is the drive/transmission service and brakes done at 30 odd thousand miles?

    One I tested yesterday had service due and showing 32k miles.


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  41. Robbe

    Robbe Well-Known Member Team Daytona Team V6 Audi S4 Audi A4

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    Stronic is 30k. But go over all servicing in fine detail if the car is still in warranty. Don’t want to go through what I did. Brakes should last 30-40k depending on how you drive.
     
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  42. Thundercliffe81

    Thundercliffe81 Well-Known Member Team V8 Team Sepang Audi RS4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Yeah I feel for you man. It wasn't right that. Not one bit.

    Reckon I should go for a car about 40k miles? Or should I say NOT less than 30k? Expensive services them two.


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  43. Robbe

    Robbe Well-Known Member Team Daytona Team V6 Audi S4 Audi A4

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    Depends on the car and dealer. Can get a higher mileage car if it’s been looked after and has had all the servicing done. I think I was just very unlucky.
     
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