Adjusting KW V3 Coilover Suspension

[s3_trev]

Hey guys,

I have the KW V3s installed in my s3 and have never had any problems with them (which is a flipping good job considering the cost lol) but the time has come now that I would like to make them a bit more 'compliant' shall we say. Maybe im getting old...

Anywho, they are currently on the KW default settings for my model of car, and I would just like to make them a bit more comfortable over the bumps. It goes without saying that comfort is very subjective, but my main reason for this post is to ask for some advice on the relationship between rebound and compression, and to make this process that bit speedier / easier, rather than spending a full weekend making small changes and roadtesting.

If I was to screw the compression down a couple of turns say, how much do I then need to adjust the rebound? And do I need to adjust the front differently than the back (obviously I do but how much).

By any chance does any one have this suspension on their s3 and has maybe had to do this in the past and would like to share their settings with me? I will of course also send KW an email to see if they have any advice.

I realise this could be quite a difficult question for anyone to answer and I appreciate any replies.

Thanks as always.

 

[S3Alex]

Hi Trev.

I had the v3 setup in mine before the Clubsport.

The only problem I had was setting it up....it took ages to adjust it till it was right.

If you go to page 16 of this guide it may be very useful.

http://www.penskeshocks.co.uk/downloads/AdjustableTechManual.pdf

It explains it all very well and gives you a good base to begin from and the interaction between compression and rebound damping.

 

[S3_Mat]

If you want to back it off to be more comfortable and you take off some compression damping you will in turn need less rebound damping or you risk bottoming the shocks out over repeated bumps in quick succession. Perhaps keep your damping settings and raise the ride height slightly to start with.

If that's not an option my advice is, and I'm sure Alex will agree - change only one setting at a time, drive the car and they readjust again. You will find a baseline much faster that way and understand how compression and rebound settings front and rear affect the balance of the car. It is very much trial and error.

http://www.drivingfast.net/car-control/understeer.htm
http://www.drivingfast.net/car-control/oversteer.htm

Check the flow diagrams at the bottom for a rough guide as to how to fine tune suspension based on the car's tendency in corners and will help you dial it in. Bear in mind it's not all down the damper rates. Ride height, camber and toe settings and also relative ARB stiffness front to rear play a part in balance and comfort, and how twitchy the car is.

As the S3 is FWD biased you can make a more neutral car by having the rear setup marginally firmer damping wise. The only draw back with the KW v3's is access to the rear rebound adjusters - the shocks need to be removed or you need to cut access holes in the boot trim.

 

[s3_trev]

Thanks for the replies guys! I guess this isnt gonna be a 5min job LOL.

S3_Mat you are correct in assuming changing the ride height isnt an option. No way thats happening as its sitting perfect in my eyes.

I will read the materials that both of you have posted. Thanks for your input!

 

[S3_Mat]

Generally speaking if your car is already pretty low then you need more damping to prevent bottoming out - You may find you are unable to find a sweet spot for comfort without bottoming the shocks when pressing on. The only options at that point are:

Live with more damping and a firmer ride.
Raising the car.
Playing with tyre pressures.

 

[S.]

they are PITA to adjust. i had them adjusted as kw suggests but i've found them to be firm on the roads here. then i had them set few clicks softer and raised the rear end a bit and it was still firm, ended up giving front end 3-4 clicks more, and it's a bit better, but it's not a joy. i think i'll go to the garage and ask them to soften them more.

 

[S3Alex]

I found it a PITA as well,but worth persisting with.

There is a good chance of finding the sweet spot that suits each driver,but it takes time and effort.
As S3_Mat says above,incremental changes to one variable at a time is the answer to finding that,and if you change 2 things at once,it's easy to go in the wrong direction.

I slowly upped the compression damping until the car felt stiff enough(!),and then started going up on the rebound,and it has sharpened it up immensely from where it was a few months ago.

I think there's more to come with the rebound damping,but I'm not very good at this.
A race driver would know exactly what to do,but I have to go a bit slower....

 

[S.]

exactly. i don't own garage or the tools to do it myself or the knowledge, so every time i have to go to the specialist to do if for me (i've got old system which is harder to set than the new versions).
handling is beautiful, and it's perfect for twisty roads (understeer is almost gone combined with other hardware), but it's a bit harsh for everyday town driving etc (we really got poor roads)..
would i buy them again..yes

 

[Sayam]

I found it a PITA as well,but worth persisting with.

There is a good chance of finding the sweet spot that suits each driver,but it takes time and effort.
As S3_Mat says above,incremental changes to one variable at a time is the answer to finding that,and if you change 2 things at once,it's easy to go in the wrong direction.

I slowly upped the compression damping until the car felt stiff enough(!),and then started going up on the rebound,and it has sharpened it up immensely from where it was a few months ago.

I think there's more to come with the rebound damping,but I'm not very good at this.
A race driver would know exactly what to do,but I have to go a bit slower....

This may sound like a silly question but it isn't. If you didn't need camber adjustment to fit those wheels (for example if you used 18x8J wheels) then what would be wrong with something like Eibach Sportline springs and Bilstein B8 dampers?

That would mean the car was very comfortable but still good for fast road use?

The reason I ask is to a lay person like me this suspension stuff seems one, overkill and two the quickest way to a knackered back ever invented...

 

[S3Alex]

It's a good question for sure.

Firstly I did need the camber adjustment but also I still found the car a bit on the bouncy side with the v3 suspension.

The car was breaking traction on a dry road in 3rd and 4th gears on good 225 tyres so that was the reason for the fatter tyres meaning I could use a better range of tyres as well.

You can see I'm justifying all this but I still hanker for the best car setup I'd had which was on the GpN Escort....very controlled and superbly damped but thankfully I didn't pay for the lot new.

The v3 setup was good and I think for most of us most of the time it would be more than enough but the car could get a bit unruly as the power and torque kept increasing.

Anyhow it gives me something to keep adjusting....LOL

 

[s3_trev]

Really appreciate the responses guys, they are very helpful.

 

[Sayam]

It's a good question for sure.

Firstly I did need the camber adjustment but also I still found the car a bit on the bouncy side with the v3 suspension.

The car was breaking traction on a dry road in 3rd and 4th gears on good 225 tyres so that was the reason for the fatter tyres meaning I could use a better range of tyres as well.

You can see I'm justifying all this but I still hanker for the best car setup I'd had which was on the GpN Escort....very controlled and superbly damped but thankfully I didn't pay for the lot new.

The v3 setup was good and I think for most of us most of the time it would be more than enough but the car could get a bit unruly as the power and torque kept increasing.

Anyhow it gives me something to keep adjusting....LOL

I appreciate your time Alex, I always go away learning something after reading one of your posts.

So with 245 width tyres are you no longer breaking traction? Also do you have a Haldex controller as well as the Quaiffe (sp?) diff or just the latter?

 

[S3Alex]

I appreciate your time Alex, I always go away learning something after reading one of your posts.

So with 245 width tyres are you no longer breaking traction? Also do you have a Haldex controller as well as the Quaiffe (sp?) diff or just the latter?

Things have changed a lot on the car recently.

I already had the Haldex controller and the Quaife diff which together do help a lot but the stock ECU and traction control are not great and the result was either TC on and the diff fighting it or TC off and a few wild moments.

The TC on the Syvecs is much more advanced and subtle and doesn't just brake a wheel as the old system does.
This has a 6 stage TC which cuts torque firstly with ignition ****** and if required will then reduce fuelling.

It's so good it's almost unnoticeable in use.

 

[Sayam]

Things have changed a lot on the car recently.

I already had the Haldex controller and the Quaife diff which together do help a lot but the stock ECU and traction control are not great and the result was either TC on and the diff fighting it or TC off and a few wild moments.

The TC on the Syvecs is much more advanced and subtle and doesn't just brake a wheel as the old system does.
This has a 6 stage TC which cuts torque firstly with ignition ****** and if required will then reduce fuelling.

It's so good it's almost unnoticeable in use.

That TC sounds posh lol!! I assume having the diff and the stock TC fighting it is much better than having stock diff and TC and not having any traction?

 

[S3Alex]

That TC sounds posh lol!! I assume having the diff and the stock TC fighting it is much better than having stock diff and TC and not having any traction?

I wouldn't agree to be honest as it results in severe understeer especially on wet roads.

The Syvecs looks at wheelspin and lateral G,and has adjustable limits for each,after which it applies torque reduction,which is again adjustable for both the rate of reduction,and the point at which it begins.

These can be stored as different TC maps,from aggressive to mild.

 

[Sayam]

I wouldn't agree to be honest as it results in severe understeer especially on wet roads.

The Syvecs looks at wheelspin and lateral G,and has adjustable limits for each,after which it applies torque reduction,which is again adjustable for both the rate of reduction,and the point at which it begins.

These can be stored as different TC maps,from aggressive to mild.

Reminds me of tuning audio systems where you can choose the point of crossover and the steepness of the slope lol. Evidently the Syvecs TC is much more advanced.

 

[S3Alex]

Reminds me of tuning audio systems where you can choose the point of crossover and the steepness of the slope lol. Evidently the Syvecs TC is much more advanced.

It really is,and without poaching this thread completely,if you imagine the jump between using a manually adjusted electronic crossover,and the current generation of digital room correction gear,then you have some idea of how far ahead it is.