A5 3.0 TDI with an unsolved mystery, desperately looking for help

Propps

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Hey there!

This is might be my last try and to find out how to fix my car.
So I have an Audi A5 3.0 TDI quattro Sportback, year 2015/16. The car has the CKVC engine code. It had an Adblue system installed. 245hp/580nm.
I bought the car from Munich Audi Center Eching in 2017 with 9600 km-s , so pretty much brand new.
It had all the extras I was looking for, S-seats, BßO, 20 inch rims, sportdifferential, full S-line, black optics and in Glacier White etc.
I had it remapped to 303hp/640 nm. The car got a lot better, but I wanted more sound from it so I had the DPF gutted. This is where the problems started.
The turbo blew up under the tuners hands and so it was time for a new Turbo.
I bought the Darkside turbo 2872, and it got installed.
I broght the car to a different tuner, who had tuned many hybrids before, but this one he felt like it doesn’t behave like it should be. The spool was very slow and it took a while to get it right. Stll the boost didn’t come until 2500 rpm. I had that on for like 3 months.
I bought a Wagner Competition Intercooler in the meantime. Ibought bigger HPFP metering valve, the bigger MAF (BiTDI), these from Darkside, and got an exhaust system fitted to it with the Adblue system left in place.
The car got slower and slower, the turbo not spooling before 3000 rpm.
Turned out the Darkside turbo leaked exhaust gases on the hot side. Darksides team replaced/fixed it in 2 weeks, a truly amazing support to be honest.
Some said I should get an even bigger exhaust. So a custom one got fitted with a 76mm inner diameter pipe, with Y split at the back like the previous diesels. Exhaust tips on both sides just like an S5 with quad pipes and S5 diffusert. I was really happy with the looks and the Adblue system got deleted too.
Software wise, removing the adblue system warning and sensors were painful, but the tuner managed it.
So I got my Darkside turbo back, but it started behaving slow again and I had a leak at the EGR pipe on the side of the turbo, where the blanking kit was installed. It all seemed weird why im always getting an exhaust gas leak.
So I bought a completely OEM, Garrett 22/60 turbo to install and I said im gonna be fine with it.
It melted… so to say… the geometry got stuck into the hot side. It got taken apart and we realized it kind of melted from heat.
The VCDS showed temps over 1000 degrees celsius.
Since then. I got the injectors checked, they performed perfect on the test bench. A professional company tested it, working with the latest Bosch equipment. Wasn’t cheap either.
The car got tested for boost leaks etc. I even got the timing chain replaced, since it was already stretched. Got the flywheel replaced, DSG oil change for the second time as well. Cost me shitloads of money.
The car has 106.00 km s on the clock, an has been checked thoroghly…
I have the 4 th turbo on right now, after installing an aftermarket EGT sensor right after the turbo, in the downpipe. The highest temperature ive seen was 700 degrees there.
VCDS still shows 1000 degrees pre-turbo!!! under full throttle. The lates tuner said that cannot be an accurate reading. It reads at the “Modeled temperature sensor bank 0” in VCDS software.
My last tuner assured me, there wont be any problem. Now im sitting here next to my car, with its 4th turbo melted again, geometry completely stuck….

This has been going on for almost two years now, and im completely devastated. No one can tell me what the issue might be. It has been diagnosed by 3 tuners, multiple mechanics and everyone is scratching their head what the hell makes such a big exhaust temparature. Some even saing that it cannot be so high. One of the tuners even put a completely stock map on it, with EGR DPF and Adblue turned off obviously and the car still making over 900 degrees exhaust temps.
The car has been under the hands of 3 tuners who work for tuning companies that are regarded as best companies here in Hungary, and none of the got to a solution. The last one assured me for a warranty…

So im asking here: does anybody have any ideas what I should do now? Im placed in Hungary – Western border, working as a dentist.
I really don’t want to sell this car, I love how it looks, fell in lve with it at the beginning. I cant even sell it like this, I don’t want the next owner to come and kill me in the night haha.
Some even said to drive it off a cliff…
I had sleepless nights because of it, and now its parked in my garage, with a melted turbo and an unsolved mystery coming with it….
 
I already had some conversations with Bobby about this issue a while back, but yeah, impossible to diagnose this online.

I'm looking for ideas really. What to do next? Where to look. Otherwise my car will end on the scrap yard... :(
 
I already had some conversations with Bobby about this issue a while back, but yeah, impossible to diagnose this online.

I'm looking for ideas really. What to do next? Where to look. Otherwise my car will end on the scrap yard...You c
Surely someone can help, to good a car to scrap.

Good luck getting it sorted, keep us updated.

JG
 
Hi couple of things:
You said you put a exhaust on but left the adblue system in? what exactly does this mean? Your car has a centre box which is the adblue trap and if you removed the DPF then the adblue trap needs to go too.
Aftermarket EGT sensor in the downpipe is useless - you want it before the turbo as you want to know the heat going into the turbo as you want to protect the vanes.
1000deg egt in vcds is under load or stationary value you seeing?

To me its pretty obvious you have a poor tuning job whereby the guys are turning off all the egt sensors and forcing 1k egt value.
Darkside turbo normally spools sooner than 3k but they really require a tuner that knows what they doing with boost control with EMP measurements.
I can set this car up correctly but need 3 days with it which means no remote tuning etc.

Thanks
 
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I don't think it's an unsolved mystery. You have tuners who have worked on the car that do not know what they are doing. Happy to take the money and leave you with a ticking time bomb. Remove the DPF, The Ad-blue has to go. The post turbo EGT gives you only ballpark information and the temperature drop between pre and post turbine can vary a lot , quite common for second rate tuners to disable EGT faults and protection in the search of power, If you only ever use the car for short sprints then you can get away with this. Introduce the car to a track or do a prolonged pull to high speed and you are liable to see VNT damage such as you have.
Did you have the tune revised when you changed the Darkside turbo to a stock 2260? If not then that is another reason that you have seen the turbo fail. Will have been overspeeding and the hot side is smaller so EGT's would have been silly .
 
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Hi couple of things:
You said you put a exhaust on but left the adblue system in? what exactly does this mean? Your car has a centre box which is the adblue trap and if you removed the DPF then the adblue trap needs to go too.
Aftermarket EGT sensor in the downpipe is useless - you want it before the turbo as you want to know the heat going into the turbo as you want to protect the vanes.
1000deg egt in vcds is under load or stationary value you seeing?

To me its pretty obvious you have a poor tuning job whereby the guys are turning off all the egt sensors and forcing 1k egt value.
Darkside turbo normally spools sooner than 3k but they really require a tuner that knows what they doing with boost control with EMP measurements.
I can set this car up correctly but need 3 days with it which means no remote tuning etc.

Thanks
Hi Bobby!
Somehow i missed your reply and others too, sorry for that. First of all thanks for tuning in again.

The Adblue system got completely removed since. The exhaust system is a 76mm pipe all the way with S5 style exhaust optics in the rear. I will attach some pictures.
The 1000 degres was under full throttle: "Exhaust gas model temperature 0" is the value that shows something in vcds. All the others are not showing reasonable data. Im not even sure that one reading is always accurate though, but as i had multiple turbos "melting", egts have to be a problem.

The cars received a completely stock software after the garrett 2260 installation, and even then that one sensor showed degrees reaching 880 celsius. It got ****** also with stock software. At the moment there is another stock Garrett 2260 turbo on it. Brand new. Apart from the exhaust system, the darkside silicone pipe and the wagner competition intercooler the car has stock hardware. MAF and MAP, everything is back to stock.



I will attach pictures of the previous turbos hot side as well, how it looked like after being ******.

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20200922 135853
20210816 143907
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I don't think it's an unsolved mystery. You have tuners who have worked on the car that do not know what they are doing. Happy to take the money and leave you with a ticking time bomb. Remove the DPF, The Ad-blue has to go. The post turbo EGT gives you only ballpark information and the temperature drop between pre and post turbine can vary a lot , quite common for second rate tuners to disable EGT faults and protection in the search of power, If you only ever use the car for short sprints then you can get away with this. Introduce the car to a track or do a prolonged pull to high speed and you are liable to see VNT damage such as you have.
Did you have the tune revised when you changed the Darkside turbo to a stock 2260? If not then that is another reason that you have seen the turbo fail. Will have been overspeeding and the hot side is smaller so EGT's would have been silly .
Hi Desertstorm! Thanks for tuning in.

Yes the software has been put back to the latest stock software every time a new turbo was put on and the tuner worked from there. But was amazed him also that even with stock software (dpf/egr/adblue removed) the sensor showed 880 degrees celsius.
Some said to me that this " Exhaust gas temperature model 0" is not even a correct reading its simulated or something. But to that i replied: then why am i getting my turbos toasted?
I believe this is the sensor right before the turbine, right after the Y split?
 
Hi Bobby!
Somehow i missed your reply and others too, sorry for that. First of all thanks for tuning in again.

The Adblue system got completely removed since. The exhaust system is a 76mm pipe all the way with S5 style exhaust optics in the rear. I will attach some pictures.
The 1000 degres was under full throttle: "Exhaust gas model temperature 0" is the value that shows something in vcds. All the others are not showing reasonable data. Im not even sure that one reading is always accurate though, but as i had multiple turbos "melting", egts have to be a problem.

The cars received a completely stock software after the garrett 2260 installation, and even then that one sensor showed degrees reaching 880 celsius. It got ****** also with stock software. At the moment there is another stock Garrett 2260 turbo on it. Brand new. Apart from the exhaust system, the darkside silicone pipe and the wagner competition intercooler the car has stock hardware. MAF and MAP, everything is back to stock.



I will attach pictures of the previous turbos hot side as well, how it looked like after being ******.

View attachment 241427View attachment 241428
View attachment 241419View attachment 241420View attachment 241421View attachment 241422View attachment 241423View attachment 241424View attachment 241425View attachment 241426View attachment 241429

Hi - without disrespect to your tuner, you need to find someone that knows what they are doing.
1) Exhaust gas model temperature 0 - as the name suggests this is a model not actual EGT from sensor 1 so log the correct channel
2) I would remove the Turbo intake pipe and put ori back
3) Why do you have EGT probe in downpipe? needs to be before turbo
4) Send me email I will make you a file with emissions off and then you can log that - BobbySinghRacing@outlook.com

Thanks
Bobby
 
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Hi - without disrespect to your tuner, you need to find someone that knows what they are doing.
1) Exhaust gas model temperature 0 - as the name suggests this is a model not actual EGT from sensor 1 so log the correct channel
2) I would remove the Turbo intake pipe and put ori back
3) Why do you have EGT probe in downpipe? needs to be before turbo
4) Send me email I will make you a file with emissions off and then you can log that - BobbySinghRacing@outlook.com

Thanks
Bobby
Hi Bobby!

Yeah i had the suspicion that its not the correct channel, but none of the others listed in adv. meas. values are showing anything useable. Im either getting 0° or negative or N/A for all the other exhaust sensors.

About the aftermarket egt sensor. I asked them to put it before the turbo and the answer was, why would the pre and post turbo temps be so different. I argued that pshysically its possible to be way hotter before than after but they disagreed.

I have put the original intake back just now.

I have sent you and email as well.

Thank you for your help!
 
About the aftermarket egt sensor. I asked them to put it before the turbo and the answer was, why would the pre and post turbo temps be so different. I argued that pshysically its possible to be way hotter before than after but they disagreed.
I wouldn't bother with using that garage again they obviously have no clue about how turbocharged engines work. There can be quite large differences between pre and post turbo temps especially when the engine is running at max boost / performance. And this is when you really need to see the correct EGT temps.
 
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Im in communication with Propps trying to sort this out remotely but its far easier to have the car here rather than remote work
 
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Was this issue resolved? I just read the whole post I’m curious
Hey there!

I sold the car soon afterwards. A mechanic bought it, and installed a new engine in it. The original engine was "dissolving", throwing small metal parts into the turbo. After the 6th broken turbo ive had enough. The car now is completely fine with an exhaust and stage 1 tune. I keep contact with the guy. He loves it.

Sorry Bobby, for not reaching out to you anymore. You tried to help a lot and u were very kind. Thanks again!
Ive got so sick of the car i didnt even wanna look at it anymore...
Bought an E53 AMG Coupé since. Missing the quattro feel, but this one is a 21 model, brand new, so im enjoying it for now.
 
Hey there!

I sold the car soon afterwards. A mechanic bought it, and installed a new engine in it. The original engine was "dissolving", throwing small metal parts into the turbo. After the 6th broken turbo ive had enough. The car now is completely fine with an exhaust and stage 1 tune. I keep contact with the guy. He loves it.

Sorry Bobby, for not reaching out to you anymore. You tried to help a lot and u were very kind. Thanks again!
Ive got so sick of the car i didnt even wanna look at it anymore...
Bought an E53 AMG Coupé since. Missing the quattro feel, but this one is a 21 model, brand new, so im enjoying it for now.

Thanks for the update, happy to know it’s rolling now at least.

The E53 AMG must be a lot of fun, maybe not winter time though