A4 2.0 TDI B8 High Pressure Fuel Pump Failure?

[jackouk1337]

Hi,

Long time lurker! Does this sound like a HPFP failure? I know low pressure fuel can have many causes but its the mechanical tap that worries me. It happened just now.



I was driving along at 30mph and the glow plug warning light started flashing. Thought it was just the DPF.
Put my foot down and it didn't accelerate. Then it started to slow down. Pulled over and it wouldn't rev above 1.5k. Then stalled. Now it just cranks over and intermittently starts - maybe 1 in 6 start, and I have to keep my foot down to stop it stalling. And it sounds like death. No leaks or smell of diesel.

I won't get the car home until tomorrow and will check out the fuel lines, filter and LPFP. But I primed the LPFP and it sounded fine - same as when I changed it about 10,000 miles ago.

TIA!

Wednesday,09,August,2017,19:59:50:30949

VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64

VCDS Version: 17.1.3.0 (x64)

Data version: 20170320 DS267.7

www.Ross-Tech.com



VIN: WAUZZZ8K09A242007 License Plate:



Chassis Type: 8K (8T0)

Scan: 01 03 05 08 09 15 16 17 19 42 46 47 52 53 56 62 72 77


VIN: WAUZZZ8K09A242007 Mileage: 210800km-130985miles


01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010

03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000

04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000

05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: OK 0000

08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000

09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010 (Just something I've caused, no issue, Euro headlight thing)

15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000

16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000

17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000

19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000

42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000

46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000

47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000

52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000

53-Parking Brake -- Status: OK 0000

56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000

62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000

72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000

77-Telephone -- Status: OK 0000


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 01: Engine (J623-CAGA) Labels: 03L-906-022-CAG.clb

Part No SW: 03L 906 022 MJ HW: 03L 906 022 B

Component: R4 2.0l TDI H01 9978

Revision: 11H01---

Coding: 0104002C18072118

Shop #: WSC 01930 002 1048576

ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TDI03L906022MJ A01011

ROD: EV_ECM20TDI03L906022B.rod

VCID: 79F866FCF8A1B789AE-802C


4 Faults Found:

5211 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure

P0087 00 [101] - Too Low

Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

Freeze Frame:

Fault Status: 00000001

Fault Priority: 2

Fault Frequency: 1

Mileage: 210808 km

Date: 2017.08.09

Time: 19:51:34


Engine speed: 1474.00 /min

Normed load value: 34.9 %

Vehicle speed: 2 km/h

Coolant temperature: 62 °C

Intake air temperature: 26 °C

Ambient air pressure: 1000 mbar

Voltage terminal 30: 13.380 V

Unlearning counter according OBD: 80

Crankshaft speed (RPM): 1474.0 /min

Vehicle speed: 1.68 km/h

Mean injection quantity: 12.62 mg/stroke

Fuel temperature: 35.1 °C

Fuel high pressure: actual: 124800 hPa

Rail pressure regulation: status-Bit 0: 00000101

Inj Crv st Inj Char Act Val 0-Bit 0: 01011000


5212 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure

P0087 00 [101] - Too Low

Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

Freeze Frame:

Fault Status: 00000001

Fault Priority: 2

Fault Frequency: 1

Mileage: 210808 km

Date: 2017.08.09

Time: 19:51:34


Engine speed: 1297.50 /min

Normed load value: 81.6 %

Vehicle speed: 2 km/h

Coolant temperature: 62 °C

Intake air temperature: 26 °C

Ambient air pressure: 1000 mbar

Voltage terminal 30: 13.400 V

Unlearning counter according OBD: 80

Crankshaft speed (RPM): 1297.5 /min

Vehicle speed: 2.47 km/h

Mean injection quantity: 21.77 mg/stroke

Fuel temperature: 35.1 °C

Fuel high pressure: actual: 114100 hPa

Rail pressure regulation: status-Bit 0: 00000101

Inj Crv st Inj Char Act Val 0-Bit 0: 01011000


5215 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure

P0087 00 [101] - Too Low

Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

Freeze Frame:

Fault Status: 00000001

Fault Priority: 2

Fault Frequency: 1

Mileage: 210808 km

Date: 2017.08.09

Time: 19:51:34


Engine speed: 1458.00 /min

Normed load value: 47.8 %

Vehicle speed: 2 km/h

Coolant temperature: 62 °C

Intake air temperature: 26 °C

Ambient air pressure: 1000 mbar

Voltage terminal 30: 13.380 V

Unlearning counter according OBD: 80

Crankshaft speed (RPM): 1458.0 /min

Vehicle speed: 2.13 km/h

Mean injection quantity: 13.00 mg/stroke

Fuel temperature: 35.1 °C

Fuel high pressure: actual: 98100 hPa

Rail pressure regulation: status-Bit 0: 00000101

Inj Crv st Inj Char Act Val 0-Bit 0: 01011000


5231 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure

P0087 00 [101] - Too Low

Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

Freeze Frame:

Fault Status: 00000001

Fault Priority: 2

Fault Frequency: 1

Mileage: 210808 km

Date: 2017.08.09

Time: 19:51:36


Engine speed: 903.00 /min

Normed load value: 100.0 %

Vehicle speed: 2 km/h

Coolant temperature: 63 °C

Intake air temperature: 26 °C

Ambient air pressure: 1000 mbar

Voltage terminal 30: 13.380 V

Unlearning counter according OBD: 80

Crankshaft speed (RPM): 903.0 /min

Vehicle speed: 2.60 km/h

PCV p Set: 1.0369e+006 hPa

Fuel temperature: 35.2 °C

Fuel high pressure: actual: 115200 hPa

Rail pressure regulation: status-Bit 0: 00000100

Inj Crv st Inj Char Act Val 0-Bit 0: 01011000


Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

 

[Mario]

Can't see or hear the video (at work) but from your description it does sound like the HPFP has had it. Best thing to do is open it up and see if there is metal in the fuel. The official fix is to replace EVERYTHING fuel related, there is a video that the HumbleMechanic did on YouTube, he is an ex VW mechanic, so knows a lot ans provides useful info on what happens and how they fix it at the dealers.

Found the link to his video via google for you....



There is also this "not so official" fix that I found just now where the guy just replaced the pump, cleaned the lines with loads of diesel (using VCDS to run the pumps to flow it all through) and prayed his injectors had been spared the death sentence. Seems like it worked for him....

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/threads/hpfp-failure-diy-repair.31082/

 

[jackouk1337]

Thanks for the reply.

Opened the pressure valve and lots of metal shards. Drained a little fuel from the LP fuel supply and also metal shards so new pump needed.

Plan of action is to drain the HP fuel rail and see if that has shards (If so, new injectors).

Then take off/Prime the LP feed and see if that has shards on the feed side (then replace all that as well).

I'm pretty sure everything after the HP fuel pump needs replacing and to be honest changing the LP pump/filter isn't a huge deal.

 

[jackouk1337]

If anyone stumbles across this.

VAG have extended the warranty to 120,000 miles for HPFP failures. Mine is at 131,000 miles. Dealers said minimum £3,500 only if the damage is contained to the HP fuel system (it isn't, its gone back into the tank via the return).

Best option is to spend a weekend swapping engines.

 

[Mario]

I don't think that warranty extension applies to the UK. More for the US market as their consumer rights are much better than ours and they can sue for anything, hence companies extend warranties, etc. Bit like how they got payouts for the diesel scandals and we got nothing.

 

[ChRoffey]

Hi all,
I've the hpfp failure on my 2.0 Tdi b8. Is it a bad idea to use a second hand pump?

 

[spartacus68]

Hi all,
I've the hpfp failure on my 2.0 Tdi b8. Is it a bad idea to use a second hand pump?

No experience of doing this job, but I suspect the answer lies in the age of the car and what your long term plans are?

Looking at the humblemechanic video there's a lot of labour involved to replace it, which is false economy if you fit a used part that later fails prematurely. If you can do this yourself then that's half the battle. If you're just going to move the car on I would go for a reconditioned part from a trusted source. With second hand, how long has it been sitting around, unless you know the donor car is a runner. I'm sure these things must have 'o' ring seals that eventually perish. If you are keeping the car, then source new.

 

[ChRoffey]

Thanks for the reply, it's actually failed under warranty. The dealer has used a second hand part which I'm not happy about as they don't know the history or milage of the donor vehicle. I think your reply has confirmed this for me, thanks very much.

 

[audiwaterpump]

Thanks for the reply, it's actually failed under warranty. The dealer has used a second hand part which I'm not happy about as they don't know the history or milage of the donor vehicle. I think your reply has confirmed this for me, thanks very much.

Is that an Audi main dealer? I wouldn't be happy about a 2nd hand pump, when it is covered by a warranty.

 

[ChRoffey]

No, a used car dealer, its a 2014 model. Main dealer or not, my concern is that there is no knowledge of the condition or history of the donor vehicle.

 

[audiwaterpump]

No, a used car dealer, its a 2014 model. Main dealer or not, my concern is that there is no knowledge of the condition or history of the donor vehicle.

What did the dealer say when you told them that you were not happy about a 2nd hand pump?

 

[ChRoffey]

That they're perfectly entitled to use second hand parts on a second hand car. They didn't tell me before or after, I spotted it and brought it up with them.

 

[audiwaterpump]

That they're perfectly entitled to use second hand parts on a second hand car. They didn't tell me before or after, I spotted it and brought it up with them.

It all depends on what the warranty terms are.
How much warranty are they giving on the replacement 2nd hand pump.

 

[ChRoffey]

None as far as I'm aware, they just did it under the 3 month vehicle warranty and didn't mention any further warranty on the repairs. My concern is the unknown history of the part used. If that goes in 3 months then I'm left with a whopping bill. Since the repair the carr has also lost 15 to 20 mpg and intermittently smokes and runs a bit rough.
I wouldn't have minded a second hand alternator or starter motor, but using a second hand hpfp sounds a bit out of order to me.

 

[audiwaterpump]

Reject the car. You will need to do this quickly and in writing.

 

[ChRoffey]

I'm already looking into that, just trying to find out if it's me or the dealer who's being unreasonable. Thanks for your advice, it's really appreciated.

 

[audiwaterpump]

I'm already looking into that, just trying to find out if it's me or the dealer who's being unreasonable. Thanks for your advice, it's really appreciated.

Hope you get it sorted soon to your satisfaction.

 

[spartacus68]

The garage are entitled to use a second-hand pump in the car, however that needs to be brought to your attention if you subsequently buy it. If they were unaware of it prior to them handling the car, say as a trade-in then that's different.

For them to replace the original pump, did it have a catastrophic failure than forced them to look for a cheap fix?

Just checked on Autodoc, then a HPFP from Bosch is around £680 for 177PS 2.0 TDI. ECP for the same part are £800 plus the exchange unit of £170 which is refundable. Obviously you have a timing kit, water-pump and labour on top of that, and injectors if they are goosed too.

I don't know the story with this - but does seem someone has taken a shortcut to keep the profit margin on the car. You have up to 30 days of purchase under Consumer Rights Act 2015 to reject for full refund, or you can take this through small-claims. Again depending how this was financed - there are options there too.

Anyway - best of luck.

 

[ChRoffey]

Thanks for the info. The pump failed after I bought the car and the dealer replaced it with a second hand pump, I assume, as you say, to keep their profit margin. For me, its morally wrong and they just wanted a cheap fix to get me through the warranty period then I was no longer their concern. They didn't tell me they were going to use a second hand part and, I believe, tried to keep it from me. When I asked for receipts for the parts used they wouldn't give them to me, they just offered a certificate of works. I then had look after noticing a big drop in fuel economy and could see the part was used. To use second hand for this crucial part with no knowledge of the history is just plain wrong to me and not the actions of a reputable car dealer as they claim they are. I'm just trying to get expert opinion on this to see if I'm correct and help me sort this. All the info and advice is really appreciated from all. Thanks

 

[spartacus68]

Thanks for the info. The pump failed after I bought the car and the dealer replaced it with a second hand pump, I assume, as you say, to keep their profit margin.

That's poor. As soon as they start to hide things such as the parts fitted you know they are on the defensive. They took a calculated gamble and it hasn't paid off, and in my book that's deception. They need to do the right thing and fix your car, using OE specific parts that are up to the job that would have carried a 2 year Audi warranty if they'd purchased through a dealer. If you've no faith in them to do this, then look for your money to be returned.

Often the warranties offered by independent garages aren't worth the paper they are written on, as they are underwritten by a third party and usually come with exclusions on what can be claimed on and can't exceed a fixed amount.

I suppose the main thing is to keep up the communication. Avoid reference to forums would be my advice. I've been there with BMW when my wife's i3 was in for repair. In the end I spoke direct with the electric vehicle specialist which was a damn site better than dealing with the service manager who was clueless. The difference with a main dealer is that they tend to throw parts at an issue to see if it resolves by following a technical manufacturer guide, and don't tend to deviate, even although common sense may dictate otherwise.

 

[ChRoffey]

In this case its an independent used car dealer. They said they warranty the cars themselves as the AA and RAC warranties aren't worth the paper they're written on. At least the AA or RAC would've used a new or refurbished part, not second hand.

 

[audiwaterpump]

If there are metallic particles in the fuel, then I believe the official Audi recommendations is to change every part that comes into contact with fuel.
That's a huge and expensive job.
So just changing the pump is not a proper fix/repair.

PS - a lot of these dealers are dodgy when they have to spend their own money.