A3 s-line 2.0 tdi - upgrading brakes from 288mm to 312mm or 345mm

[soulwaffle]

Hi All,

I'm looking to upgrade my current front (1ZE - 288mm) brake discs to 312mm or 345mm and the rears (1KD - 255mm). I've had a little search on the forum and I can see a few members have gone from 288 to the 345 setup. Some of which opted for the 312mm setup.

Guide I used: https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/the-moderately-informational-brake-thread.96917/

345mm setup:
- 345mm brembo brake discs
- brake pads: EBC Redstuff - Fast Street
- braided brake hoses
- brake fluid ATE Super Blue Racing
- dust guard 345mm
- carrier / calipers for 345mm

312mm setup:
- 312mm brembo brake discs
- brake pads: EBC Redstuff - Fast Street
- brake fluid ATE Super Blue Racing
- carrier 312mm

Any suggestions on different brake disc manufacturers? Partly doing this for 'the look', so I was looking at discs with grooves.

 

[soulwaffle]

To answer my own query. I've decided to go with the 345mm and 310mm brake setup. I've just purchased the Mk5 r32 calipers+carriers from ebay. They come with discs and pads but I will be swapping those out.

 

[Orange225]

Same as I did on my a3, went from 312 to 345, good news is they fit under 17” wheels so I can use my winter wheels/tyres still

 

[soulwaffle]

Those alloy's are very tidy. Do you have an A3 170bhp? I believe those came with the 312mm as standard.

Did you get the S3 calipers or R32? If they were the R32 did you use the R32 brake hose (Im looking to purchase from HEL). Also which discs are you using? Again, very clean and rust free.

 

[Orange225]

Cheers, ready for a repaint in the summer though. I got r32 front and rear,only difference I can tell is the r32 ones have a square piece on the brake pad spring instead of the full cover on the s3. Yeah got a 2010 170 Quattro. I used the hoses that came with the brakes, all a straight fit, rears even came with braided lines, one thing you need to watch out for is the small brass pipe on the rear caliper, mine got slightly bent and my wheel ended up rubbing through it, wasn’t fun having brake failure on my way to work

 

[Orange225]

When first got em

After a repaint and rebuild

 

[soulwaffle]

very nice. I can see mine will need a good clean once they arrive. The brake hoses look like they were cut off but I've ordered a set from HELPerformance. Thanks for the heads up on the rear calipers.

Still looking around for brake discs.

 

[Orange225]

I’ve actually just seen some on Facebook. Personally though I’d just buy some new ones, the front that I got with mine ended up being slightly warped so bough new brembo drilled ones anyway, got a pair of fronts and pads for about £170 from AUTODOC. I just googled a photo of an r32 and used the reg from that to get parts

 

[soulwaffle]

Ah thanks for the idea. I received the calipers today, will give them a good look over the weekend. Did you purchase the r32 or s3 dust guards? Did they fit? I read somewhere the rear's dont fit.

 

[Orange225]

I just used my original dust shields and gently finessed with a hammer. I don’t think new ones are mega money though. The brakes are easy to service too, a rebuild kit is only about £15 for the pair, worth it just so you know they’re good. I think they’re 54mm

 

[prt57]

Rather than the 345mm S3 discs, you can use the 340mm discs from a TTS. You just don’t get the rusty wear ring around the outside 3mm of the disc.
I fitted these 340mm front discs and Golf6R callipers to a TT earlier this year that was running 312mm discs as standard.

 

[soulwaffle]

I just used my original dust shields and gently finessed with a hammer. I don’t think new ones are mega money though. The brakes are easy to service too, a rebuild kit is only about £15 for the pair, worth it just so you know they’re good. I think they’re 54mm

I did come across this guy who details repairing/refurbing the calipers: https://www.thebeardeddetailer.com/blog/2019/7/18/mk5-volkswagen-r32-brake-caliper-rebuild - I suspect that parts of the calipers are worn and may end up swapping them out, regardless.

Rather than the 345mm S3 discs, you can use the 340mm discs from a TTS. You just don’t get the rusty wear ring around the outside 3mm of the disc.
I fitted these 340mm front discs and Golf6R callipers to a TT earlier this year that was running 312mm discs as standard.

Whilst I was looking round on different setups I did come across your post. I believe you did it for your son's TTS? I think what threw me was the use of golf6r calipers and not knowing the age of your TTS. I've re-read your post and see I could use 340mm discs and I have seen this mentioned else where too. But I'm looking to pick up 345mm vagbremtechnic grooved.

 

[prt57]

I did come across this guy who details repairing/refurbing the calipers: https://www.thebeardeddetailer.com/blog/2019/7/18/mk5-volkswagen-r32-brake-caliper-rebuild - I suspect that parts of the calipers are worn and may end up swapping them out, regardless.



Whilst I was looking round on different setups I did come across your post. I believe you did it for your son's TTS? I think what threw me was the use of golf6r calipers and not knowing the age of your TTS. I've re-read your post and see I could use 340mm discs and I have seen this mentioned else where too. But I'm looking to pick up 345mm vagbremtechnic grooved.

My son had a TTS about 4 years ago but we did not do much to the brakes apart from fitting EBC discs and pads after 2 sets of Pagid caused juddering when hot.
This was a fwd TT I worked on this year which came with the standard 312mm discs. The Golf 6R has the same callipers as a TTS and an S3 8P and they allowed the fitment of the 340 or 345 mm discs. The benefit of the 340mm discs is that you get he same braking efficiency as the 345mm discs but with a slight weight reduction.
The photos show a before and after with Brembo discs and pads with the bigger callipers. These juddered like the Pagid but no problems after changing to EBC later on

 

[James36]

My 2.0tdi has 350mm Audi R8 4 pots on the front and Audi TTS 310mm on the rear. Hel braided lines.

VAGBREM adapter needed for the fronts and but both direct replacement.

 

[soulwaffle]

Very nice setup. <adds front radar honeycomb setup to list>.

I just got off the phone to Mike at vagbremtechnic. Extremely helpful and took the time to answer my queries. I've gone with the 340mm setup for the fronts and 310mm for the back, grooved. Will report back once I've got it all setup.

 

[soulwaffle]

Update on my Big Brake setup. I had a vapour blasting company recommended to me by another company that do sand blasting. Having a read around it's probably safer for my brake carriers.

I popped down to https://www.high-pressure-services.co.uk/ in Dover and left my Brake Carriers with Stewart. Turns out, the paint wouldn't come off with vapour blasting alone so the carriers have been acid dipped. I believe they will need or have been anodised post acid treatment.

Now, I'm giving a shout to the high-pressure-services (check out their site for other bits of cleaning) because the work involved more hours than expected, but when I enquired what the cost would be, Stewart responded saying he wasn't changing the original price. See pics for results.

 

[soulwaffle]

Getting there, the caliper itself will be painted black. Note to self: Do this kind of thing in the summer.

 

[soulwaffle]

Does anybody know the correct sequence for bleeding the brakes? I'm reading to start with the furthest away from the master cylinder and to work my way forward but the haynes manual states:

1. Right-hand front brake.
2. Left-hand front brake.
3. Right-hand rear brake.
4. Left-hand rear brake.

 

[abmat]

I always thought it was furthest first.

 

[Orange225]

Same here, the exact opposite of what it says

 

[soulwaffle]

Will the s3 splash shields fit onto the A3 ?

 

[soulwaffle]

The rear brake carrier bolts. Absolute killer. Cant find the youtube vid, but I ended up placing the bottle jack underneath the breaker bar and jacking it up as high as possible. After which I yanked on the bar a little and the bolt came undone. Have to return the rear splash shields as I've been sent the wrong ones.

 

[Orange225]

I had issues with the rears, had to use my buds ramp as I couldn’t get enough room to undo it, one thing I didn’t watch out for was the brass brake pipe on the calipers were at the wrong angle and I didn’t realise, lasted about 20 miles until the very edge of my wheel wore a hole in the pipe on both side, resulting in no brakes and brown pants

 

[Orange225]

 

[soulwaffle]

Got everything on and took the car for a test drive. So, whilst the brakes work fine I have a few issues: The ABS light came on, shortly followed by the ESP light. Might invest into a VCDS at this point.

The second issue I'm having is, whilst the brakes work fine, the brake pedal continues to travel towards the floor after the brakes have been applied. Apparently this is related to air being in the system. I used the Sealey pressure bleeder. Possibly need to bleed the brakes again? Or because this is a complete new brake setup I need to 'bed the brakes' ?

 

[Orange225]

Strange you’re having issues, mind didn’t cause any issues, they were bled about 3 times though, the pedal did feel a bit spongey until they bed in though

 

[soulwaffle]

Appreciate all of the help Orange225. I've gone round once. Will go around a few more times.

 

[soulwaffle]

So, bleed number 2 completed. More air coming out of the system. However, brakes still spongey. I'm considering on what to do:
1/ Continuously bleed until the air is out of the system
2/ Attempt an ABS bleed via vagcom

Side note, I dont appear to have a master cylinder bleed nipple(s).

 

[soulwaffle]

Taken from Audi's erWin (paid for 1hr access, downloaded all of the manuals):

Table of test values and procedure guidelines:
The value given in the table is for one brake caliper, i.e. if there
are two bleeder screws on one caliper, the sum of the quantities
discharged from both bleeder screws must equal the value given
in the table.
Sequence of opening bleeder screws: Quantity of brake fluid to discharge:
Brake calipers
Front axle on driver's side 1. 0.20 ltr.
Front axle on front passenger's side 2. 0.20 ltr.
Rear axle on driver's side 3. 0.30 ltr.
Rear axle on front passenger's side 4. 0.30 ltr.
Clutch slave cylinder 5. 0.15 ltr.
⇒ Total quantity, automatic gearbox 1.00 ltr.
⇒ Total quantity, manual gearbox 1.15 ltr.


Bleed sequence:

Front axle:

Brake caliper (driver's side): Remove cap(s) -1- from bleeder
screw(s).
– Fit bleeder hose -1- attached to collector container onto bleeder
screw from inside of rim.
– Open bleeder screw and allow brake fluid to discharge. Refer
to table for correct quantity of brake fluid to discharge
⇒ page 39 .
– Close bleeder screw.
– If there are two bleeder screws on each brake caliper: Repeat
procedure with second bleeder screw.
– Refit cap on bleeder screw(s).
– Repeat procedure on passenger's side.

Rear axle:
– Brake caliper (driver's side): Remove cap(s) -1- from bleeder
screw(s).
– Take reversible ratchet and appropriate socket from tool set
for brake bleeding - VAS 6564- and fit together.
– Run bleeder hose -1- from inside of rim through reversible
ratchet -2- and socket -3- and fit onto bleeder screw.
– Open bleeder screw with ratchet -2- and allow brake fluid to
discharge. Refer to table for correct quantity of brake fluid to
discharge ⇒ page 39 .
– Close bleeder screw.
If there are two bleeder screws on each brake caliper: Working
from outside of rim, apply reversible ratchet -2- and socket
-3- and repeat procedure.
– Refit cap on bleeder screw(s) on brake caliper.
– Repeat procedure on passenger's side.

 

[soulwaffle]

Well, I've pressure bled the system numerous times. I've also performed an ABS bleed numerous times using VCDS. Wondering where I'm going wrong:
1/ Everytime I bleed I can see air bubbles
2/ The brakes work fine and the car stops as they're applied. The issue is the pedal travels further than it should (slowly sinks)
3/ I hear a small 'hiss' when I apply the brakes, but this only happens when the car is stationary. Moving I cannot hear anything
3/ At first ABS bleeding the system, I could see fluid coming from the left caliper but later, no fluid was coming out of the front left caliper. Front right remained fine.

 

[abmat]

Sounds like air may be getting in the system somehow.

 

[samisnake]

Sounds like air may be getting in the system somehow.

 

[soulwaffle]

Interestingly, the pressure bleeder holds the 14psi value and pressure does not drop. I only lose 1psi when the bleed screw is open. I dont see any leaks round the pistons.

Is it possible that these are new discs/pads and need time to bed in?

 

[Buckie]

So if I purchased MK5 R32 front and rear callipers and carriers and discs it will all just bolt on?

 

[samisnake]

So if I purchased MK5 R32 front and rear callipers and carriers and discs it will all just bolt on?

And brake hoses. And as long as you're coming from a 288 or 312mm setup, yes

 

[soulwaffle]

Hmm, may depends on your car. Is it the 1.9 tdi where the rears (310mm) won't fit because of the hub size?

 

[Orange225]

Mines a 2.0 tdi Quattro and was a straight swap with the r32 brakes and disks, I noticed the Quattro seems to have tiny disks on the rear as standard, mine were 312 from and 272 I think rears

 

[Buckie]

And brake hoses. And as long as you're coming from a 288 or 312mm setup, yes

Ok thanks. I’d get braided hoses anyway. Mine is the 2.0 TDI 140. I’m pretty sure they’re the 288 on the front

 

[Buckie]

Hmm, may depends on your car. Is it the 1.9 tdi where the rears (310mm) won't fit because of the hub size?

Mines the 2.0 TDI 140 S-Line

 

[Buckie]

And brake hoses. And as long as you're coming from a 288 or 312mm setup, yes

I’ve checked and mine is definitely 288 front and 253 rear