A3 Quattro/S3 handling (Understeer)

grainqey

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Hello,

I've swapped my A3 to AWD (as you do) I've noticed rather a lot of understeer under power in the wet and dry, it wants to go in a straight line (I've got coilovers, ARBS, ALK)

In the wet it gets even more interesting, understeer to a point so you have to mash the loud pedal to get the rear to step out to counter it.

What do people on here do? fit a haldex controller or geometry or say the adjustable balljoints or what?

Thanks in advance
Alex

p.s I did do a search but didn't really get actual answers, only confirming what I'm getting!
 
4 wheel drive by nature will always be a bit under steery (new word !), I can sometime neutralise it by a trail braking , You could try dropping the front tyre pressures or soften up the front ARB. Basically you need to soften the front end to try and get it to grip more.
 
You seem to have the right bits to sort out much of the understeer, so I'm a bit surprised that you still have issues.
What arbs are you running and if they can be adjusted, what settings are you running on the front and rear?
Tyres play a big role in front end grip, so would be good to know what you have all around and what condition they are in?
Obviously things like tyre pressure, condition of the suspension bushings and tracking all play a huge role, so you need to know that they are sorted too.
Finally, one thing that may be the problem is your style of driving - using the accelerator to bring the rear out with this car will only result in more understeer, unless extensive mods are carried out. One of the best pieces of advice I was given once is to use the fact the this car is front-heavy, so the way to keep the grip at the front is to brake hard and deep into the corner even as you turn in. I know it sounds wrong (not only in an adult movie kind of way), but this was advice I got from a former F1 test driver at advanced car handling course. The idea is to use the weight of the engine to push down on the front wheels and increase their grip as you turn. This made the weight shift from the rear and cause it to come around like in a RWD car, but by using brake rather then throttle. This means that your entry speed is much faster into the corner and you can use the superior grip of the AWD system to accelerate out of it faster than you normally can in a FWD or RWD with similar power.
All that has to be practiced in a controlled environment and you have to have some understanding of how grip is affected by lateral forces in the corner when combined with weight transfer and application of brake or accelerator. I lost count how many times I spectacularly spun out while practicing this technique, but in the end I went from being barely able to take a fast corner at 60mph without running massively wide (due to exactly what you were doing with accelerator mid corner) to going through it at 90mph with the rear doing much of the turning and holding the steering wheel with my index finger. This was obviously in a controlled environment, on an airfield, but the same technique can be applied at road speeds to have much more control over the car in the corner. Best £250 ever spent on the car! Was a present from the wife :)
Whatever you do from this point is avoid touching the accelerator in the corner in your car and you will see it turn better assuming your car is setup correctly. See if you can go to one of these training days and you will be amazed at the difference some basic training will do to your driving - Car Limits is who I used.
 
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Ive got an A3 quattro (170 TDI) and don't really have much understeer issues and I live out in the sticks. I running 4 Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres pressure as 42F/36R and although these tyres have a littie give in them when I initially turn into a corner once dug in they hold fine and can power through the corner.

Could be different driving styles etc. I would say i'm more gentle than aggressive and when driving for fun tend to drive how i was trained on my Response + pursuit course.

What tyres you running?
 
Try fitting some Michelin Supersports, you will notice a massive difference immediately.
 
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Hi Alex.....you'll know the understeer issues I felt mine had,and I've found the best upgrades in no particular order were:

ARBs
Coilovers (I've now moved to a Bilstein kit which is far easier to use than the kW kit I was using).
ALK
Good tyres.....I think I've tried everything from Michelin PS2 and Goodyear F1s to R888Rs and Supersports.
I think for overall road use the Supersports are excellent,and that's what I'm using right now.

I didn't find the Haldex controller made a huge difference except perhaps in traction under a lot of load.
 
Thanks for the input and responses,

Maybe I was expecting it to handle differently to how it does?
It turns in well without throttle and then with throttle it pushes the front out wide but maybe with it being upto 50:50 it ends up understeering until the point that the rears are overwhelmed with power (basically)

It's fine if you only power out of corners and it can atleast now be provoked into lift off oversteer, if you drive it that way

Chassis Mods I've got are:
BC coilovers - S3 spring rates
ALK - powerflex, all the front wishbones bushes are polybushed
23.7mm front arb (tiguan lol)
21.7mm rear arb (tiguan again)
factory Gen 2 haldex controller
Kuhmo tyres all round but KU39's on the front and PS91's on the rear - I was testing to see which were better between the two before I went AWD and they are staying as they are until they wear out but may swap front to back (I've tried a few different tyres but the KU39's performed far better, especially for the price than even goodyear eagle F1's - for me atleast but I run 235/40/18 rather than 225)

No idea what the camber currently is without having a geom printout to hand - front and back is adjustable so anybody is welcome to give me input on camber suggestions

Thanks
Alex
 
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Thanks for the input and responses,

Maybe I was expecting it to handle differently to how it does?
It turns in well without throttle and then with throttle it pushes the front out wide but maybe with it being upto 50:50 it ends up understeering until the point that the rears are overwhelmed with power (basically)

It's fine if you only power out of corners and it can atleast now be provoked into lift off oversteer, if you drive it that way

Chassis Mods I've got are:
BC coilovers - S3 spring rates
ALK - powerflex, all the front wishbones bushes are polybushed
23.7mm front arb (tiguan lol)
21.7mm rear arb (tiguan again)
factory Gen 2 haldex controller
Kuhmo tyres all round but KU39's on the front and PS91's on the rear - I was testing to see which were better between the two before I went AWD and they are staying as they are until they wear out but may swap front to back (I've tried a few different tyres but the KU39's performed far better, especially for the price than even goodyear eagle F1's - for me atleast but I run 235/40/18 rather than 225)

No idea what the camber currently is without having a geom printout to hand - front and back is adjustable so anybody is welcome to give me input on camber suggestions

Thanks
Alex

I think I've managed to get much of the understeer out of mine,but only after a lot of money and time,plus a few suspension setups.

The car will turn in well,and hold it's line pretty well,and I can use power to pull me through and out of the corner,although the back will get pretty loose if you back off.
I found that characteristic was very like my Escort Cosworth,which could get very loose quickly under that sort of condition.

I would think seriously about balancing up your tyre choice as well.
 
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I think I've managed to get much of the understeer out of mine,but only after a lot of money and time,plus a few suspension setups.

The car will turn in well,and hold it's line pretty well,and I can use power to pull me through and out of the corner,although the back will get pretty loose if you back off.
I found that characteristic was very like my Escort Cosworth,which could get very loose quickly under that sort of condition.

I would think seriously about balancing up your tyre choice as well.

It's on the list but undecided if I'm swapping to 245/40/18 like the rs3 fronts from memory or all round or just go to same model of tyre
Alex
 
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