A little controversial? Better without remap

[TheFiftheElement]

Just in case this may help those who are in 2 minds about applying a remap to a PFL car.

I'm a serial car changer, one day I'd love to find a car I get emotionally attached to and think of as mine but so far this has not happened. Given I'm now 48, I'm not sure it ever will. I get bored fairly quickly, usually around the 9 month mark (now) and look to change into something else. I'm currently looking at older 911's, and missed out on 2 last week.

To try and stop the boredom from kicking in, I quite often modify my cars a bit. Whether that's new alloys or suspension - just something to try and keep my interest in the car.

I had my car (PFL RS3) remapped about 4 months ago. I always get tempted by more power. Initially I didn't think that the remap totally changed the car (like most posts claim) but after giving it full beans on a few hoons it was definitely quicker. I have had issues with boost fluctuation. It's intermittent, and almost a bit like fuel starvation or injectors not delivering enough fuel. This aside - the car drove well and is undeniably rapid.

I had a deal in place for a 2007 911s last week. Full disclosure to the dealer I was trading the car in to I admitted it's been running a remap for a while and asked if he'd prefer it left on, or taken off. He wanted it taken off so I headed out last week and had the map taken off.

Unfortunately the 911 wasn't in the condition I had hoped it was so I didn't go through with the deal. Shame after a 3 1/2 hour drive to see it. The dealer was apologetic, not a porsche specialist so was unaware of certain things I pointed out.

Anyway what this leads to me is a back to is driving an original Audi map RS3.

Do you know what, I prefer it. The boost issue (hopefully has gone) - all I can think of is there's no longer the boost target the remap was set to. Less demand on fuel/injectors/clutch etc. It pulls clean and smooth.

It feels revvier. I do prefer cars that you need to rev out. The big dump of torque early sure makes a car feel quick but it's a bit diesel like. Why bother revving it when you get this big dump at 2.5k. You can change up at 5k and make serious progress. Now it's a bit nicer to rev it out.

So what's the point of this post? Well I can assume the majority of replies will be that I had a bad map or my car has some underlying issue. I can see that's hard not to prove but it doesn't drive that way. The point of the post is to say to any new owners considering a map - try one first. You may not like it as much as you think. Your warranty (if you had one) is gone, you might be £2-300 worse off on insurance.

Day to day driving (i.e. under 70 not at full throttle) I suspect there won't be a huge difference, and if a 0.2 seconds decrease in 0-60 gets you excited then you're after a different driving experience than me.

Just to add some balance that a) quicker isn't always better and b) remaps don't always magically transform cars

 

[Nickyc]

Interesting, what map was it can I ask ?

 

[TheFiftheElement]

I intentionally didn't mention the map as a) I didn't want it to detract from the post and b) I didn't want the thread to go down the 'insert companies' map is bad.

All I would say is that there are hundreds of mapped RS3's with the same standard serial port map I had on from a proven, trusted, well regarded tuner. It wasn't a custom map, just a standard file uploaded through the serial port. It made the numbers on a dyno and apart from the intermittent boost issue (usually in 2nd/3rd foot to the floor from lowish revs) it drove well and as expected.

It's maybe just me, I prefer zingy engines that rev out to big dumps of low down torque.

 

[Nickyc]

I'm with you on that, I'm more than happy with mine as it was out of the box. Be good to get your review on your Porsche when you get it

 

[msdmjb]

It's maybe just me, I prefer zingy engines that rev out to big dumps of low down torque.

Not just you, I looked at various RSs/AMGs and whilst no doubt quick they just didn't feel like engines should imo, all too easy but never felt like the engine was loving it and feel strained at the top end.......long story short bought a 2yr old R8.........engine loves to rev and really kicks on at 6.5k revs, so responsive to the throttle and a magnificent piece of engineering - dinosaur maybe but my goodness what a way to bow out. Add in a sports exhaust and it is louder than you might think is legal.

And before you ask I did look at a new GT4 but couldn't be rsed with the wait list (>15months where I am) and quattro does come in handy when you have so much power available (mine is used in all weathers).

 

[Riko0073]

Thanks for your feedback, interesting your experience as I’ve never been one to tune a car although did put a tuning box on my S4 but it just made the gear changes to harsh, reverting back to standard was just a more enjoyable drive.

I was considering a re-map when the cars 2-3 years old to give it a ‘new lease of life’, that’s if I keep the RS3 that long as like you seem to get itchy feet but around the 1 1/2 - 2 year period, however I was kind of hoping the RS3 would be ‘the car’ to want to keep for a while...we’ll see!

Standard car is plenty quick enough for me and yes it loves to rev and pulls all the way to that red line, lovely!

 

[Sug]

I had the same issues with boost on my PFL once mapped by a local tuner with a good reputation. I had the map on my car for 3 months until I’d had enough. Once checked by my new tuner is was clear to see by the graphs that the map wasn’t giving the correct % of boost between 3-4K revs. Once uninstalled and the new map loaded the car is totally different and hesitation has gone. Lesson learned for myself

 

[TheFiftheElement]

I'm maybe a little biased in that I prefer the characteristics of a zingy naturally aspirated engine. The 3.4 flat 6 in my old Boxster S was a lovely thing to stretch out.

The 5 cylinder is a class above the S3/generic 4 pots I've had in that it does like to rev and will happily head butt the limiter, I just prefer how it drives now back to a standard map. I just don't enjoy the addition of 100 lb/ft at low-ish revs. It makes the car very quick but also a little flat in terms of the rate of change in acceleration.

Without adding timing gear, I can't say it feels any slower though. I'm not doing track days or drag strips, just day to day town with the occasional B road hoon. It's more than quick enough.

I'm an old fart (48) so just thought it might help some people who just think more power and faster is always better. Try a remapped car out. Don't get blinded by figures for power/torque or 0 - 60 etc. Go drive one and see if it feels like a good way to spend some cash.

 

[D0C]

ETTO but I much preferred mine mapped. Was brutal!

 

[Ross_T_Boss]

I think it's about having a car with a good, balanced remap. In my experience I've had maps that had surge, overboost, have a peaky or lumpy throttle and generally don't feel pleasant to drive at mid throttle. In one case I did revert to OEM until I was able to get a 'better' remap - a bit more linear with a 5% lower torque that came in smoother, but same peak power up top.

All re-maps are not made equally, and auto/DSG boxes often need coding to match as well, to ensure it all feels OEM-like. When it turns it into a TDI it feels fast 'riding the torque wave', doesn't mean that it is, but that's enough for many folks (who also believe that torque is superior to horsepower as it "wins races").

 

[D0C]

I think it's about having a car with a good, balanced remap. In my experience I've had maps that had surge, overboost, have a peaky or lumpy throttle and generally don't feel pleasant to drive at mid throttle. In one case I did revert to OEM until I was able to get a 'better' remap - a bit more linear with a 5% lower torque that came in smoother, but same peak power up top.

All re-maps are not made equally, and auto/DSG boxes often need coding to match as well, to ensure it all feels OEM-like. When it turns it into a TDI it feels fast 'riding the torque wave', doesn't mean that it is, but that's enough for many folks (who also believe that torque is superior to horsepower as it "wins races").

I had MRC map my PFL RS3 and that was a savage power delivery.

I then had Revo map my TTRS. That was a much more linear power delivery, however, I think the FL engine is a bit more linear anyway.

I liked both maps.

 

[TheFiftheElement]

100% spot on and my thoughts too.

Unfortunately a simple one size fits all serial port remap doesn't give you the option of the engine characteristics you personally like. I also think a DSG/gearbox map would be preferable. I bought a petrol turbo car and don't want it to drive like a TDi.

For me it's all about the drive and less about the numbers ..

 

[N-Sinc]

Ok, so i had my 2017 FL car taken to stage 1 yesterday by MRC, and i wholeheartedly disagree with your statement. The car is an animal and this is how it should have been from the factory. Pulls relentlessly and gear changes are much improved. (I should add i included the optional DSG map).

I genuinely found the standard car lacking a bit. Felt like it was holding back. Flooring it felt clinical and like you were just going through the motions. A stage 1 car is a complete assault on the senses from 1st to the top of 3rd. I could never go back to the standard car!

I can't agree with the statement of preferring to have to rev the standard car out either. The rev limiter has been raised on mine and if anything it's more mental as the revs climb.

 

[123Quattro]

Bottom lime is a tune can adjust every aspect of the way the car runs including drivability, fuel economy and performance, If a car loses its drivability after a tune, it's a poor tune. Only adjusting for top end performance while spending no time insuring the car drives well is cutting corners, and should not be something you have to live with or compromise on. Sure most of use are getting tunes for max power, and frankly that is the easy part of tuning.

Expect more from your tuners.

 

[5pot4banger]

Can't say I've experienced anything like that in both my mk7 r or pfl rs3. Both were stage 2 (still have the rs3) and the tune absolutely turned the car into a missile.

I'd say more so on the golf r since it went from 310ish bhp to 400bhp and upped the torque by about 160nm which can really be felt. So when I got my rs3 stock it definitely wasn't as quick as my R but after the tune the shifts felt better, the drive felt smoother, it was quicker in the whole rev range, sounded better (downpipe) and overall was just a massive improvement and I've had no issues.
Honestly can't see myself getting bored of the rs3 and changing it unless I can afford something absurd like the gt3 rs or a 458..

 

[TheFiftheElement]

We all like different things.

It's possible I just don't like the cookie cutter map that I had on my car. I much prefer how it's driving with it removed.

My next car (if possible) will be back to normally aspirated and definitely a manual. I miss changing gear but that's entirely another argument

 

[Ross_T_Boss]

We all like different things.

It's possible I just don't like the cookie cutter map that I had on my car. I much prefer how it's driving with it removed.

My next car (if possible) will be back to normally aspirated and definitely a manual. I miss changing gear but that's entirely another argument

Of course. I think from your post, it's clear that (1) the map was poor and would have influenced your opinion on remapping - I think the conclusion is that folks should try and get a test drive in a mapped car first, although on the flipside it's only usually after a period of living with it you feel the creases, and buyers beware as not all are equal; (2) your issue is far more than the map on the car and sounds like you are making a change anyway.

I think you'd be impressed to drive my Unitronic TTRS for example; torque delivery is smooth, the DSG faster and more direct (feels more PDK-like) and redlines at 7500rpm with good power all the way, optimum shift points 6500-7000. But it still uses flappy paddles, turbocharged power delivery and has most focus is on the front end of the car which sounds like isn't you thing. Beauty of cars - much easier to change than women

My brother just acquired a 987 S and there is no substitute for that raw NA delivery, a tight 6-speed box and perfectly poised MR balance; he really enjoys my TTRS and was a bit tempted to consider one but realised it wasn't what he wanted. I've always said the cayman is settling vs the 911 dream but it's a phenomenal chassis. I have said only a 911 could tempt me away from the TT, but the experience of the Boxster and release of the new Cayman 4.0 GTS has unsettled me I admit!

 

[D0C]

Of course. I think from your post, it's clear that (1) the map was poor and would have influenced your opinion on remapping - I think the conclusion is that folks should try and get a test drive in a mapped car first, although on the flipside it's only usually after a period of living with it you feel the creases, and buyers beware as not all are equal; (2) your issue is far more than the map on the car and sounds like you are making a change anyway.

I think you'd be impressed to drive my Unitronic TTRS for example; torque delivery is smooth, the DSG faster and more direct (feels more PDK-like) and redlines at 7500rpm with good power all the way, optimum shift points 6500-7000. But it still uses flappy paddles, turbocharged power delivery and has most focus is on the front end of the car which sounds like isn't you thing. Beauty of cars - much easier to change than women

My brother just acquired a 987 S and there is no substitute for that raw NA delivery, a tight 6-speed box and perfectly poised MR balance; he really enjoys my TTRS and was a bit tempted to consider one but realised it wasn't what he wanted. I've always said the cayman is settling vs the 911 dream but it's a phenomenal chassis. I have said only a 911 could tempt me away from the TT, but the experience of the Boxster and release of the new Cayman 4.0 GTS has unsettled me I admit!

I had a mapped TTRS. Now have a 991.2 Carrera 4S. Handling is on another level but honestly, I miss the TT.