Post facelift "regressions"

[ptf]

So, I have a new RS3 on order - but the more I discover about the post facelift changes the more I wonder if there are too many downsides.

I know about the odd shaped steering wheel and touch sensitive buttons, I know about the lack of true TPMS, I know that the SFD2 system will make it difficult to retrofit either the TPMS sensors or a pre-facelift steering wheel.

But the other day I noticed in another thread that the current software might not allow things like speed limit warnings to be permanently disabled (instead requiring that it is done at the start of each journey).

Are there any other regressions in the post facelift cars - ways in which they are worse than the pre-FL cars? Because I might just try to find a late 2024 pre-FL car to buy instead (I've looked, not much doing unfortunately).

Also - how does SFD2 comply with EU directives 461/2010 and 2018/858 which are supposed to protect the customer's right to use third party repairers - and require manufacturers to give access to spare parts and diagnostic information to allow that?

 

[rjn21]

In addition to the things you mentioned:
1. Lane keep assist has to be disabled on every start.
2. Heat insulating windscreen is no longer available in the uk.
3. Homelink door opener is no longer available in the uk.
4. Every ignition off triggers a message to check the rear seats.
5. The software can, on rare occasions, be buggy - no start, lane keep/cruise lane centering not disabling, CarPlay not initialising correctly.
6. Driver profile saved to key not applying on unlock, or randomly changing profile whilst driving.
7. Due to SFD2, beep on lock, comfort access, Scandinavian drls, cannot be activated. Thankfully the soundaktor can still be disabled.
8. Generally the car is very slow to warm up / defrost so you'll be 10+ mins idling on a winter morning if you park outside.

 

[ptf]

Thanks.
1. is the case on my pre-FL S3 so no change there (unless it was different on the pre-FL RS3).
2. I didn't have that on the S3 - at least it doesn't appear as an item in the spec sheet that I had at the time so I guess I won't miss it - it sounds a useful feature to have though.
3. I wouldn't have a use for that personally
4. Wow, that sounds annoyingly nannying
5. I use Android Auto but that doesn't always connect properly - maybe 5% of the time. Enough to be annoying certainly.
6. I haven't had either of those with the pre-FL S3. Randomly switching profile when driving would be dangerous as I can't drive with the seat in the position my wife sets (I'm 6'2", she's 5'2").

 

[Splathead]

If it helps, using Obdeleven, I have managed to change the default for speed warning and Lane keeping assist to off.

 

[JKP]

Post or pre FL car? I can't do anything but read the fault codes with the OBD11 to my FL A3.

The basic A3 as a whole is a step forward IMO. Some minor upgrades, like better speed adjustment in the ACC and more accurate parking sensors, and especially far less glitches with the MMI. The nannies are indeed annoying but can be fairly easily disabled and many of them can be just ignored. I think there are more pros than cons in the FL model and most of them are the same in the RS3.

BUT if you want to tweak or tune the car then it's a whole different story, the SFD2 seems to be much more of an issue than the nannies or the steering wheel, at least at the moment. Basically you have very little choice but to keep the car stock. TPMS is available in the EU market, one can only hope it comes available in the UK some day again.

 

[ptf]

Hmm, I can see that SFD2 could be a show stopper given that I am a firm supporter of right to repair and it is going to make it much harder for independent mechanics to work on VAG cars with SFD2 in the software. Not to mention tweaking, remaps, retrofitting hardware AUDI see fit to exclude from the UK market such as TPMS etc, etc.

If I "own" a car but cannot do what I want with it, then I don't really own it, do I?

I can wait until a pre-face list RS3 in the right colour shows up in the used stock.

 

[Splathead]

Post facelift.
The app didn't recognise the car as an RS3 but there are a limited number of one-click aps that work.

 

[JKP]

Now this is interesting. Have the OBD11 developer managed to get some new rights to change the car settings or are there different limitations in the UK? I need to check what mine says later today.

 

[Murkle]

Seats look exactly the same as the old car but with adjustable support but I find the facelift drivers seat incredibly uncomfortable the bolster on the outside digs into my hip constantly and I am average size.

 

[tb123]

If it helps, using Obdeleven, I have managed to change the default for speed warning and Lane keeping assist to off.

How did you turn off Lane Keep assist?

I tried over the weekend via OBDEleven, Control Module A5, Adaptation - Switch-on condition, lane depart warning. Changed it to off (setting via menu) but it still came on each time I started the car. I didn't try just setting it to OFF, am a little reluctant to play around too much given how new the access is to this car.

If the setting is just set it to OFF, can you still then turn it ON via the button on the end of the indicator stalk if you want it at all or is it permanently disabled?

Ahh, read a few more posts, you just used the built in app? No issues I gather? Just to confirm, this disables the basic lane keep assist that is active when you turn on the car each time, which is different to the one found under adaptive cruise control?

 

[JKP]

Post facelift.
The app didn't recognise the car as an RS3 but there are a limited number of one-click aps that work.

Tried to adjust mine, the app shows those one-click apps but when I tried to use them it says "not supported".

Which hardware and software versions do you have? Here are mine:

I thought should I ask for a software update to get those apps to work, but I'm a bit hesitant to do that since there were few additional nanny things on a bit newer car than mine that I drove the other day, and also my software is working flawlessly and they say about software that if it works, better leave it untouched...

 

[HM3P]

Post facelift.
The app didn't recognise the car as an RS3 but there are a limited number of one-click aps that work.

I'd be wary of using OBD11 'one click apps' if i were you, never know what's been changed and if there's an issue you cannot reverse it's a trip to the dealer and some awkward questions.

 

[Splathead]

Sorry for the delay.

 

[Mike.46]

FL is generally an evolution of the original 8Y RS3, most things that annoyed me with the pre FL are 'better' on the FL (with a few exceptions)

Gearbox has smoother changes, doesnt change down as readily on inclines.
Cold mornings 'orrible' accelerator pedal is about 90% fixed
360 camera/phone charger back on Vorsprung
Exhaust valves are programmed better as in stay open in sport modes

Steering wheel shape and alcantara I can take or leave, haptic buttons take some adapting to but not a disaster
Car seems about 3-4mpg down on earlier RS3? whether that is correct or just a calibration thing i'm not sure, my old one would show 40/42mpg on a decent run, this one 37-38mpg

The thing that would have prevented me from buying another RS3 is the SFD2 and more so the Lane assist/speed bongs and stop start having to be switched off at every ignition 'on'
VCDS has no access to any coding changes, most ecu's are SFD2 protected and those that are SFD have the gateway SFD2 in front of them, however faults can still be looked at, and deleted, channels can still be read and watched, just zero coding.

I bought my FL ONLY because there is an ASR unit available that will do either just exhaust, just memory, or both, it isnt cheap but works 100% at switching the stop/start-speed bongs-lane assist to whatever setting you have them on, just like 'remember last setting' option in VCDS

The speed bongs are an absolute joke, sometimes completely wrong (I think they use camera and sat nav database) eg, at a cross road on to a 50 mph road (left or right) but the road opposite is a 20mph limit, the sytem picks up the 20mph and bongs when turning left or right until it sees a 50mph sign, mine also thinks the Llandudno promenade (20mph) is a 60 mph derestricted road

 

[JKP]

Sorry for the delay.

Thanks. Looks like I'm running on newer software, so updating it most probably don't do anything to this.

The speed bongs are an absolute joke, sometimes completely wrong (I think they use camera and sat nav database) eg, at a cross road on to a 50 mph road (left or right) but the road opposite is a 20mph limit, the sytem picks up the 20mph and bongs when turning left or right until it sees a 50mph sign, mine also thinks the Llandudno promenade (20mph) is a 60 mph derestricted road

I came across a quite interesting incident regarding that. I have noticed my car mostly displays the right speed limit on the dash so I tried to switch the ACC to automatically change the speed based on the limit reading. I was quite upset when the car showed 80 km/h but the cruise went up to 100 km/h. Then later on a motorway cruising 120 km/h it suddenly dropped to 50 km/h with no reason. The car kept showing the 120 sign. So it looks like the ACC uses some map data whilst the signs on the dash are camera readings and those don't relate to each other. Quickly found out that function couldn't be used.

Google Maps also tries to display the speed limit on CarPlay when the routing is on. It's mostly wrong. Funniest part of that motorway event was that the car was displaying 120 which was correct, Google Maps said 80 and ACC was down to 50.

 

[flybynite]

The car kept showing the 120 sign. So it looks like the ACC uses some map data whilst the signs on the dash are camera readings and those don't relate to each other. Quickly found out that function couldn't be used.
Google Maps also tries to display the speed limit on CarPlay when the routing is on. It's mostly wrong. Funniest part of that motorway event was that the car was displaying 120 which was correct, Google Maps said 80 and ACC was down to 50.

That has been a thing since the introduction of the ACC on the MQB VAG cars around 2013 IIRC. It is called "fusion" where it blends Map data and camera data. Previously you could set some of parameters in VCDS but not all of them it seemed.

I am a huge fan of ACC, it was one of the options I insisted on having. Given the number of times the speed shown is incorrect I'm glad it is not linked to the ACC on the 8V

Best one is where the camera spots the 50, 60, 70 etc KM speed sign on the back of trucks. Quite interesting if the car passing picks up the sign and accelerates to 100MPH

 

[JKP]

Best one is where the camera spots the 50, 60, 70 etc KM speed sign on the back of trucks. Quite interesting if the car passing picks up the sign and accelerates to 100MPH

Lol, this one is yet to happen!

Thank God you can deactivate the ACC from adapting to speed limit info. I always set the speed +5 km/h over the limit anyways, the real speed is then 2-3 km/h less which leaves you overspeeding just the same as techical reduction of the radars, so tehcnically you're not breaking the law

 

[ptf]

The speed bongs are an absolute joke, sometimes completely wrong (I think they use camera and sat nav database) eg, at a cross road on to a 50 mph road (left or right) but the road opposite is a 20mph limit, the sytem picks up the 20mph and bongs when turning left or right until it sees a 50mph sign, mine also thinks the Llandudno promenade (20mph) is a 60 mph derestricted road

The S3 is just the same - right ~90% of the time but laughably wrong for the rest.

Also, when driving in Europe it just reads the number - it has no correction if the local speed limit is kph but the car is set to display mph (my wife's BMW "does the right thing" for this situation). So it will happily read an 80kph limit in France and think it is 80mph.

 

[Mike.46]

ACC.....

I had 3 x Golf’s with ACC, 2013 2.0tdi, 2016 GTD and a 2017 Golf R (should have bought the Golf R and not the GTD which I hated, alas another story) each cars ACC was better programmed than it's predecessor and then I bought the RS3 in 22,

The ACC was a step backwards from my Golf R, maybe as far back as between the 2013 & 2016 Golf’s, also the big red warning ‘Your going to crash’ alarm which never activated in any of my Golf’s

The ACC in my FL is slightly better than my pre FL, by slightly I mean it doesn’t slow down as often when cornering and there’s a parked car on the corner but the crash warning is about the same.

Mk8 Golf R were doing the slowing down to 50 mph on Motorways IIRC, maybe 56 as suggested that they were reading the 56 on the rear of trucks.

Makes you wonder how they will ever get a driverless car to work.................

 

[Mondie]

I bought my FL ONLY because there is an ASR unit available that will do either just exhaust, just memory, or both, it isnt cheap but works 100% at switching the stop/start-speed bongs-lane assist to whatever setting you have them on, just like 'remember last setting' option in VCDS

Thanks for a good post, I am considering buying a new RS3 saloon before they come to an end, so it was handy owner feedback.

Is the ASR unit a box that you plug in behind the dash?

Do you find the gearbox better than an auto, providing more feedback on changes and no feeling of a torque converter softening changes?

 

[JKP]

I haven't noticed differences in how the ACC acts between my three 8Y's, but before the facelift there was this stupid thing that below 60 or 70 km/h you could adjust the speed in 5 km/h steps but over that only in 10 km/h steps. In the FL car it's the 5 km steps all the way up, which is way better. A small thing but big improvement. Btw how's this been in the UK / mph cars?

Comparing to my old MY17 Golf 7.5 the ACC nowadays is way much smoother, it was much more clumsy in the Golf.

 

[ptf]

Btw how's this been in the UK / mph cars?

With units in mph it goes up in 1mph increments, if you continue to hold it goes up in 5mph increments though a little quickly for my tastes - I can't always hit the exact speed that I want.

The BMW approach of having two stages to the switch, one for 1mph increments and a "push harder" one for 5mph increments is better.

When set in kph it does 5/10kph steps - If I am in France (say) and want to set 114kph (which is the point my car is doing about 110kph in actuality) I set it to 120 then hit the end button on the stalk when the car has accelerated to the desired speed.

 

[Mike.46]

Thanks for a good post, I am considering buying a new RS3 saloon before they come to an end, so it was handy owner feedback.

Is the ASR unit a box that you plug in behind the dash?

Do you find the gearbox better than an auto, providing more feedback on changes and no feeling of a torque converter softening changes?

The ASR plugs in by the passenger footwell and also into the I think it's the steering wheel controller (next to steering column anyway) check their web site i'm sure there are fitting instructions there.

The FL gearbox (probably just software) changes gear more softly than the previous version when in a comfort type mode, it's not as smooth as a 8 epeed ZF in a BMW, the FL also has a much quicker response to the paddles than the previous version, I doubt the VW/Audi Stronic ic anything like the Porsche PDK version though

 

[JKP]

^ A guy who works in used car market once told me that Audi's RS transmissions are whole different to the regular ones, far less issues he said. But that was 8V time, no idea if the 8Y gearbox is the same throughout the whole model range or not.

With units in mph it goes up in 1mph increments, if you continue to hold it goes up in 5mph increments though a little quickly for my tastes - I can't always hit the exact speed that I want.

The BMW approach of having two stages to the switch, one for 1mph increments and a "push harder" one for 5mph increments is better.

When set in kph it does 5/10kph steps - If I am in France (say) and want to set 114kph (which is the point my car is doing about 110kph in actuality) I set it to 120 then hit the end button on the stalk when the car has accelerated to the desired speed.

That's interesting. I read from the manual that the oldschool cruise in A3 works that way in kph units.

I wouldn't have minded even the 10 kph step if it was ±10 on the speed you had set, but at first it went to the nearest full 10 and then jumped to the next one. Had to use it they way you described. Does the 5 mph step do the same? The 5 kph step does that too but it's usable as it is.

 

[tb123]

Strange, in my MY20 Golf I liked the ACC as you could set it in either 1kph or 10kph increments. I usually like to set my speed just over the speed limit, like 103kph or 113kph etc. can also ‘drive’ the car accelerating or decelerating as needed bit by bit.

in my FL RS3 its something like 5kph up to about 100, then 10kph increments after that which is really annoying. So now I just have to accelerate to the speed I want and try and activate the ACC right on it, but makes it hard to fine tune. I don’t know why it’s so hard to have single increment adjustment, especially when my Golf did it but the Audi can’t.

 

[Mondie]

The ASR plugs in by the passenger footwell and also into the I think it's the steering wheel controller (next to steering column anyway) check their web site i'm sure there are fitting instructions there.

The FL gearbox (probably just software) changes gear more softly than the previous version when in a comfort type mode, it's not as smooth as a 8 epeed ZF in a BMW, the FL also has a much quicker response to the paddles than the previous version, I doubt the VW/Audi Stronic ic anything like the Porsche PDK version though

Thanks Maike, I will look it up. Sounds like a must-have.

I was fortunate yesterday to see this Ascari Blue saloon, and get a quick drive in a green hatch, both at Audi Macclesfield. I thought the car drove great, it felt compact, nimble and the gearbox, while very smooth, felt mechanical and satisfying. The salesman showed me that a long press on the left stalk disabled all the safety gubbins, except for the speed warning, which you are stuck with. The car also had the buckets, which I thought were poor, made even more so by the loss of electric adjustments and memory seats/mirrors. They're an easy option to skip.

Jumping back in the M3, I immediately felt the size, mass, and the auto box vagueness, which seemed even worse after the RS3, and ultimately spoils the car for me.

 

[flybynite]

The car also had the buckets, which I thought were poor, made even more so by the loss of electric adjustments and memory seats/mirrors. They're an easy option to skip.

That is what puts me off the buckets, it even put me off the SS seats in the 8V, plus the fact I don't like quilting.

Jumping back in the M3, I immediately felt the size, mass, and the auto box vagueness, which seemed even worse after the RS3, and ultimately spoils the car for me.

I agree completely, it is the size of the Golf/A3 that I like. Once you get used to that size it is difficult to change. Although the size difference is not great IMHO you do feel the M3/4 is a step up in size. I seriously looked at the Alpina B3 and RS4/6 but could not get on with the size.

 

[Mondie]

That is what puts me off the buckets, it even put me off the SS seats in the 8V, plus the fact I don't like quilting.

They are just supremely uncomfortable. How does a mainstream manufacturer get it so wrong?

The standard seats were surprisingly comfortable and felt well bolstered for a daily.

 

[tb123]

They are just supremely uncomfortable. How does a mainstream manufacturer get it so wrong?

I guess it is very dependent on size, weight and proportions of each person. People like Joe Achilles swear by them, others loathe them, I guess if you happen to fit, great, if not, too bad. I’ve never had the opportunity to try them, they aren’t available here in Oz.

 

[Mike.46]

On the seats, when I bought my first 8Y RS3 Vorsprung the thought of elec seats was I could take it or leave it, however, with my wife also using the car the elec memory function is now a 'must have' for me.

ACC, my Golf R would do 1 mph increments, my original RS3 was 2.5 mph which I didnt like and my FL RS3 is now 1mph or big steps if I press and hold it.

Speed Bongs can be altered to have up to 8mph over the limit, probably ok at 70, not so at 30, you can also turn them off in the MMI (I think) I think you can also set both the lane assist and speed bongs as favourites so they are both on the same page to disable them but the ASR just switchs them all off inc Stop start at every ignition on

 

[rjn21]

Speed bongs and the !flashing symbol can be deactivated by using the * button on the steering wheel to disable speed alerts. To set the function of the *, press and hold it and then choose the function on the MMI.

Whilst all the mandatory EU stuff is annoying, and in certain cases dangerous in my view, it can be switched off "relatively" easily (compared to certain brands) albeit it has to be done on every ignition cycle.

 

[JKP]

Whilst all the mandatory EU stuff is annoying, and in certain cases dangerous in my view, it can be switched off "relatively" easily (compared to certain brands) albeit it has to be done on every ignition cycle.

Indeed. This is one thing I appreciate in Audi, things made easy. My buddy has a Skoda Enyaq and while it's a nice car to drive, it's fairly annoyig to use. Lots of screen fiddling to get the nannies out of the play, which is emphasized when you have to do lots of short trips on a row.

 

[Mondie]

This ASR unit does look pretty comprehensive, and even allows control of the exhaust flaps. If you're spending £70k, it may be worth the cost. I just need the nads to pull a new car apart to install it.

Valve Exhaust flap control (CB2) made for Audi RS3 [8Y Facelift] | RHD | Standard | A-005-059

With this control unit, you have the option to control your exhaust flaps via the Drive Select (driving profile) and the cruise control lever . Functionality and Benefits Drive Select…

asr-component.com

 

[Mike.46]

This ASR unit does look pretty comprehensive, and even allows control of the exhaust flaps. If you're spending £70k, it may be worth the cost. I just need the nads to pull a new car apart to install it.

Valve Exhaust flap control (CB2) made for Audi RS3 [8Y Facelift] | RHD | Standard | A-005-059

With this control unit, you have the option to control your exhaust flaps via the Drive Select (driving profile) and the cruise control lever . Functionality and Benefits Drive Select…

asr-component.com

It's also not money thrown away, remove and sell it when the time comes

 

[HM3P]

This ASR unit does look pretty comprehensive, and even allows control of the exhaust flaps. If you're spending £70k, it may be worth the cost. I just need the nads to pull a new car apart to install it.

Valve Exhaust flap control (CB2) made for Audi RS3 [8Y Facelift] | RHD | Standard | A-005-059

With this control unit, you have the option to control your exhaust flaps via the Drive Select (driving profile) and the cruise control lever . Functionality and Benefits Drive Select…

asr-component.com

It’s the best money you could spend on any 8Y
As for pulling the car apart, it’s an easy item to fit

 

[Mondie]

I'd happily pay for someone to fit it, but the two UK dealers are at the top and bottom of the country, and I live in the middle.