Replacing all front suspension arms on a 2011 S4

rum4mo

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Just some comments from me as I've finally got round to replacing all the arms on the front end of my S4, initially I felt the need to change the arms because on passing speed bumps etc there was a "firmer" noise on compression coming from the RHS of the car, then I got a bee in my bonnet about replacing the M12 front lower front arms for M14, then last year I had an ABS sensor fail and when checking the face of the new ABS front wheel sensor after 100 miles, there were scuff marks on it, which meant that there was rusting on the reluctor magnets which on older cars are left exposed - newer versions of wheel bearings have them potted for protection, so I knew that this new ABS wheel sensor would have a limited life, so more reason to get stuck in and sort things out, then I started feeling a slight bit of "wobble feedback" on the brake pedal, so in for penny changed to in for a pound or lots more!

Removing the lower pinch bolts - eventually the RHS came out after lots of PB blaster soaking including building bunds around all 4 pinch bolt locations using Blu Tac and leaving for many days, induction heater a few times, followed by air hammer a few times and even some heat from a gas torch. The top pinch bolts are not for moving even after all that "pretreatments" followed by air hammer and the usual removal tool. The LHS lower pinch bolt released - but didn't unscrew, ie sheared at low applied torque! Attempts to work on its remains - sheared exactly at the end of the threaded section by drilling pilot hole was limited due to access while everything was built up on the car, so that ended badly with me drilling a pilot hole on the sheared bolt head and using that and a very long drill bit to attack things from the other end, unfortunately this lead to that drill wandering off and now I ended up in big trouble as when this hole was opened up enough to get a "good" sized "easy out" into it, the hole was touching the aluminium upright.

Now, I must say, I did expect the drilling of holes in this seized bolt would have encouraged it to unscrew - sadly I was wrong there! If I had seen this coming I would have removed the complete upright and arms from the car and in doing that I'd have been able to work on this bolt in a more controlled manner - but I didn't!

Anyway, with this painfully slow progress and the thought of needing to extract the wheel bearing from the upright on the other side, I just thought, "F' ck it" and relieved my wallet of lots of cash and ordered in 2 new Cobapress uprights from Audi - one of which, the already damaged one, was on back order from Audi's supplier"!

Doing that meant buying in a second SKF hub/bearing, more money, but meant that I could build up everything ready just to sort of swop over.

Tools that I now consider essential for the home car sorter working with the car only up on jack stands, are, torque wrench adaptors - these let you get onto the front lower rear arm nut and torque it up accurately prior to adding on the extra angle tightening using a flat hex ring and one of these "spanner extenders". Same really when torquing up the front upper arms, I'd bought a set of these torque wrench adaptors a few years ago and finally they have come into use!

Having a 3/4" long breaker bar and sockets, both for the drive shaft bolt and for the lower brace bolts helps a lot as does having someone to hold the brakes on while you remove and fit these drive shaft bolts, also handy to have someone to hold the steering wheel to each side while you remove the calliper carrier bolts and refit them.

Being aware that on cars with hydraulic steering that there is a flexible pipe mounting nut that needs removing from the lower brace is really useful!

Having a BiHex socket to use on the TRE nut is useful, I didn't originally have one in my socket set - I do now.

After completing that job, I've finally given in and bought in a set of deep sockets with a slot in the side, really so that I am in a position to actually torque the nut on the top of dampers - rather than doing what I've always done up to now which is "that is tight enough" from experience and feel! (I took the strut apart to replace the top mounting just in case it was contributing to any of the noises under compression)
 
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Just some comments from me as I've finally got round to replacing all the arms on the front end of my S4, initially I felt the need to change the arms because on passing speed bumps etc there was a "firmer" noise on compression coming from the RHS of the car, then I got a bee in my bonnet about replacing the M12 front lower front arms for M14, then last year I had an ABS sensor fail and when checking the face of the new ABS front wheel sensor after 100 miles, there were scuff marks on it, which meant that there was rusting on the reluctor magnets which on older cars are left exposed - newer versions of wheel bearings have them potted for protection, so I knew that this new ABS wheel sensor would have a limited life, so more reason to get stuck in and sort things out, then I started feeling a slight bit of "wobble feedback" on the brake pedal, so in for penny changed to in for a pound or lots more!

Removing the lower pinch bolts - eventually the RHS came out after lots of PB blaster soaking including building bunds around all 4 pinch bolt locations using Blu Tac and leaving for many days, induction heater a few times, followed by air hammer a few times and even some heat from a gas torch. The top pinch bolts are not for moving even after all that "pretreatments" followed by air hammer and the usual removal tool. The LHS lower pinch bolt released - but didn't unscrew, ie sheared at low applied torque! Attempts to work on its remains - sheared exactly at the end of the threaded section by drilling pilot hole was limited due to access while everything was built up on the car, so that ended badly with me drilling a pilot hole on the sheared bolt head and using that and a very long drill bit to attack things from the other end, unfortunately this lead to that drill wandering off and now I ended up in big trouble as when this hole was opened up enough to get a "good" sized "easy out" into it, the hole was touching the aluminium upright.

Now, I must say, I did expect the drilling of holes in this seized bolt would have encouraged it to unscrew - sadly I was wrong there! If I had seen this coming I would have removed the complete upright and arms from the car and in doing that I'd have been able to work on this bolt in a more controlled manner - but I didn't!

Anyway, with this painfully slow progress and the thought of needing to extract the wheel bearing from the upright on the other side, I just thought, "F' ck it" and relieved my wallet of lots of cash and ordered in 2 new Cobapress uprights from Audi - one of which, the already damaged one, was on back order from Audi's supplier"!

Doing that meant buying in a second SKF hub/bearing, more money, but meant that I could build up everything ready just to sort of swop over.

Tools that I now consider essential for the home car sorter working with the car only up on jack stands, are, torque wrench adaptors - these let you get onto the front lower rear arm nut and torque it up accurately prior to adding on the extra angle tightening using a flat hex ring and one of these "spanner extenders". Same really when torquing up the front upper arms, I'd bought a set of these torque wrench adaptors a few years ago and finally they have come into use!

Having a 3/4" long breaker bar and sockets, both for the drive shaft bolt and for the lower brace bolts helps a lot as does having someone to hold the brakes on while you remove and fit these drive shaft bolts, also handy to have someone to hold the steering wheel to each side while you remove the calliper carrier bolts and refit them.

Being aware that on cars with hydraulic steering that there is a flexible pipe mounting nut that needs removing from the lower brace is really useful!

Having a BiHex socket to use on the TRE nut is useful, I didn't originally have one in my socket set - I do now.

After completing that job, I've finally given in and bought in a set of deep sockets with a slot in the side, really so that I am in a position to actually torque the nut on the top of dampers - rather than doing what I've always done up to now which is "that is tight enough" from experience and feel! (I took the strut apart to replace the top mounting just in case it was contributing to any of the noises under compression)
Wow! Well done. Kudos to you.
How long did it all take?
Some photos would be great.

It's all designed to make diy-ing difficult.
 
Well, if you feel you are going to be as (un)lucky as me, I'd cut to the chase and remove the uprights complete with arms off the car. The TREs need disconnecting and you need to BIG ball joint splitter for that - in fact you need a BIG ball joint splitter for all the taper joints, and the drive shaft bolt needs removing along with a small bolt on the upright that secures a wiring and maybe fluid line. Some time ago I bought a 3/8" square drive "torque wrench adaptors" - they work a treat when initially torquing the top arms inner bolts with the hub and car supported to bring the suspension up to "normal height", they or similar are essential also when tightening the lower rear arm inner bolts.

The big chunk of time might come from removing the upper and lower pinch bolts - unless you take the uprights complete with 4 arms into someone to do that job for you.

Removing the brake callipers + carriers + discs and probably the brake splash guards, will make the "bit" you have to handle a lot lighter.

Time taken, once I'd ended up in deep do do - getting to that point took a casual 4 weeks with just a lot of cleaning - applying release fluid - wait a day - use air hammer - use heat - repeat, the actual removing of the uprights and refitting them probably took a day per side. At least with the S4 and possibly other V6s, you need to remove the lower brace so that you can get easy access to the side heat shields that "block" the lower rear arms bolts. Warning - car with hydraulic power steering have a flexible mounting for a fluid pipe bolted to the lower brace, remove that before trying to remove the lower brace.

My statement about the ABS magnetic ring on the inner face of the wheel bearings might have been wrong, maybe from "day one" the magnetic face has been potted, the running clearance between the ABS sensor and the wheel bearing ring is "not much" so after a few years of rusting, which seems to happen if the wheel bearing has not ejected a small amount of oil from its grease - this ejected oil seems to prevent a bit of rusting in that area.

Check the width of all the tapers on the new parts you have bought - by that I mean the width where the ball joint splitter fits on/at/through as you need BIG ball joint splitters at 3 locations. I can provide the widths that I recorded and the "jaw" width of the ball joint splitters I used. I bought 2 of the bigger Laser Tools ones, one I used "as supplied" on the TRE, the other I opened up slightly using an angle grinder. The main reason to do this is that each of the aluminium arms holes where ball joint tapers pass through, have a steel tapered sleeve in them and you need to width of the ball joint separator jaws to "just" clear the taper pin so that it bears against the steel taper sleeves to stop forcing them out along with the ball joint taper pins. Never use a hammer or two on these aluminium arms to help to remove these ball joints.

Edit:- somebody on another Audi forum asked me how you get all the angles of the arms right/correct - that is never an issue, when everything is in place the arm lengths and shapes determine where the uprights end up - I'm just adding in that in case someone else out there has a similar worry, I'm not suggesting that you will!

I bought a 3/4" square drive breaker bar and 3/4" square drive hex bit for dealing with the drive shaft bolt, handy to have a helper for when you need the steering wheel hard over one way and hard over the other way as the rubber bits of the suspension arms will force the wheels to self centre on these cars. Maybe a bit bovine, but I bought a "spanner extender" for handling the extra "angle tightening" and in all cases that worked okay.

One other thing to worry about, one of the brake splash guard fixing bolt holes in the Cobapress uprights is a through hole - and that bolt needs release fluid applied to the rear of it - or you could easily shear that bolt off - this I know, but I took more care and used release fluid on the second side and that bolt came out easily.
 
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Just some comments from me as I've finally got round to replacing all the arms on the front end of my S4, initially I felt the need to change the arms because on passing speed bumps etc there was a "firmer" noise on compression coming from the RHS of the car, then I got a bee in my bonnet about replacing the M12 front lower front arms for M14, then last year I had an ABS sensor fail and when checking the face of the new ABS front wheel sensor after 100 miles, there were scuff marks on it, which meant that there was rusting on the reluctor magnets which on older cars are left exposed - newer versions of wheel bearings have them potted for protection, so I knew that this new ABS wheel sensor would have a limited life, so more reason to get stuck in and sort things out, then I started feeling a slight bit of "wobble feedback" on the brake pedal, so in for penny changed to in for a pound or lots more!

Removing the lower pinch bolts - eventually the RHS came out after lots of PB blaster soaking including building bunds around all 4 pinch bolt locations using Blu Tac and leaving for many days, induction heater a few times, followed by air hammer a few times and even some heat from a gas torch. The top pinch bolts are not for moving even after all that "pretreatments" followed by air hammer and the usual removal tool. The LHS lower pinch bolt released - but didn't unscrew, ie sheared at low applied torque! Attempts to work on its remains - sheared exactly at the end of the threaded section by drilling pilot hole was limited due to access while everything was built up on the car, so that ended badly with me drilling a pilot hole on the sheared bolt head and using that and a very long drill bit to attack things from the other end, unfortunately this lead to that drill wandering off and now I ended up in big trouble as when this hole was opened up enough to get a "good" sized "easy out" into it, the hole was touching the aluminium upright.

Now, I must say, I did expect the drilling of holes in this seized bolt would have encouraged it to unscrew - sadly I was wrong there! If I had seen this coming I would have removed the complete upright and arms from the car and in doing that I'd have been able to work on this bolt in a more controlled manner - but I didn't!

Anyway, with this painfully slow progress and the thought of needing to extract the wheel bearing from the upright on the other side, I just thought, "F' ck it" and relieved my wallet of lots of cash and ordered in 2 new Cobapress uprights from Audi - one of which, the already damaged one, was on back order from Audi's supplier"!

Doing that meant buying in a second SKF hub/bearing, more money, but meant that I could build up everything ready just to sort of swop over.

Tools that I now consider essential for the home car sorter working with the car only up on jack stands, are, torque wrench adaptors - these let you get onto the front lower rear arm nut and torque it up accurately prior to adding on the extra angle tightening using a flat hex ring and one of these "spanner extenders". Same really when torquing up the front upper arms, I'd bought a set of these torque wrench adaptors a few years ago and finally they have come into use!

Having a 3/4" long breaker bar and sockets, both for the drive shaft bolt and for the lower brace bolts helps a lot as does having someone to hold the brakes on while you remove and fit these drive shaft bolts, also handy to have someone to hold the steering wheel to each side while you remove the calliper carrier bolts and refit them.

Being aware that on cars with hydraulic steering that there is a flexible pipe mounting nut that needs removing from the lower brace is really useful!

Having a BiHex socket to use on the TRE nut is useful, I didn't originally have one in my socket set - I do now.

After completing that job, I've finally given in and bought in a set of deep sockets with a slot in the side, really so that I am in a position to actually torque the nut on the top of dampers - rather than doing what I've always done up to now which is "that is tight enough" from experience and feel! (I took the strut apart to replace the top mounting just in case it was contributing to any of the noises under compression)
"The top pinch bolts are not for moving even after all that "pretreatments" followed by air hammer and the usual removal tool. "

Surprised that the air hammer didn't remove the upper pinch bolts. Was it a professional workshop air hammer or some other version?
 
No just a low priced air hammer, but even using the correct air hammer adaptor, there is only so much hammering that I fancied applying as eventually the bolt end does get "belled out" and needs trimmed up "now and again". Maybe you could argue/reason that if I bought a longer "throw" air hammer, I might have freed them with fewer blows and so lesser "belling out" of the bolt end - I don't know.
Though the work I did was done with the uprights still on the car, I do plan to continue trying to remove these bolts on the old uprights, it was a shock to me just how quickly any applied heat is "stripped away" because the uprights are aluminium - makes sense why aluminium is used to make cooking items. Now that I've completed that job, I'm willing to use more heat both from the induction heater and a gas torch, than I did while the uprights were still on the car.

All I know is, the aluminium oxide powder does do a good job of seizing these bolts in the bore.

The arms that I bought, and new M14 lower ball joint, were Lemforder, but, after I took the uprights off, like other's I noticed that the factory fitted top arms were TRW who are another ZF brand as Lemforder are probably what I would have aimed to buy if I had known that car was built with TRW top arms.
 
As I've found this old thread, I thought that I'd add an update:-
So now after applying lots more release fluids and more heating, I did not manage to remove the top pinch bolts even although the uprights are now off the car and so should be easier to work on - and be lot liberal with how/where to apply the heat. Next plan was to fabricate a top pinch bolt puller from buying in what I deemed to be necessary, I did that, but only after working away at the head of a pinch bolt until it sheared off. So after that I used my top pinch bolt puller to draw the shank of that bolt out by connecting to its threaded end, I only applied so much load/tension to it and stopped, then applied heat followed by more load/tension until I felt that the load had increased to the point that I felt the need to stop again and apply more heat - repeat - repeat until the bolt shank was fully out of the upright. So now to try to punch out the pins of the old top links, opening up the pinch area does not seem to be "allowed", though if everything else fails, I might be temped to apply slight pressure to the pinch gap using a "strut opener" tool that I have. As belt and braces, I've ordered in an air hammer tapered punch and that should get/stay located in the recess on the underside of these top arms pins. I'm not finished with these uprights yet!

Edit:- note as this car, a February 2011 build Audi S4 is so old, the top pinch bolts are the earlier version, ie without the relieved section that the latest versions have.
 
Using a "strut opener" or "hub opener" with a 1.5mm thread pitch, I hand tightened it then applied a further 1/4 of a turn initially after applying more Plus Gas, then whacked the first top arm to force its top swivel pin out - that failed but it must have slightly opened the pitch point as the "hub opener" dislodged, so I added in more Plus Gas and re-fitted the "hub opener" and after hand tightening it, applied a further 3/8 of a turn, whacked this top arm and the pin dislodged from the upright.

Note:- as I said in my previous posting, this method is not allowed by Audi, but I'd guessing that will be because some people can not be trusted to apply "just enough" pressure to the top pinch points. My uprights will not be getting reused on my car and this upright already has a damaged lower pinch point threaded hole - so trying that method would not cause me any problems if I had failed and cracked it.

All I'm trying to do here is to add more content to this thread just in case it helps others, which is part of what these motoring forums are all about.

I'll be using a pointed chisel on my next new air hammer to try to dislodge the other top arm pin from this upright and will eventually report back here on how that went and if it too needed a a bit "expanding/opening pressure" to this upright.
 
As promised I am coming back to this thread to finish off what/how I did things.
I've now started a thread in this section of this forum on "ideas for a top pinch bolt puller tool" and in that detailed what parts I used and how it is assembled and used.
Supporting the upended upright on a heavy block of wood using the vacant flat area where the first top arm ball pin had been already been removed, I just used an air hammer to drive the second top arm ball pin down and out, so that finished off stripping down the LHS upright - there is not enough space to use the hub spreader on this top arm ball pin pinch point.
I used the tool that I made up from parts to remove the top pinch bolt from the RHS upright, again fitted the hub spreader and tightened it hand tight plus 3/8 of a rotation then resting the upended upright on a heavy block of wood, this time resting on the "other" top arm end and drove the first top arm out using an air hammer, then removed the second top arm in the same way as I did on the first upright, ie the LHS one.
These top pinch bolts AND the top arm ball pins all came out "dry" - in other words none of the Plus Gas etc ever found its way down/through the corrosion.
To complete the strip down of both these used Cobapress uprights, I removed the wheel hub/bearing assemblies, to do that and make life easier, I fitted a clamping kit of washers and M16 bolt across the hub/bearing assembly to keep it together as I needed to do that as I use a hub press plate (cheap but effective Chinese thing!) to draw the hub/bearing assembly out of the upright after removing the 4 fixing ball seat bolts - that went okay but I rotated the hub+plate 3 or 4 times by 90 or 180 degrees so that I could apply force to more than one strong point on the upright - removing these wheel hub/bearings that way avoided using brute force on the upright, as it seems most people use! For the first upright, a month or more ago, I did only use the hub press plate kit to "crack" the assembly free from the upright, then replaced the hub press plate with a large slide hammer to get that first hub/bearing out - second time round, I just used the hub press plate kit - less energy expended doing it that way.
 
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