Blue Exhaust smoke on start up.

[-Ju-]

I hope people don't mind me posting this here as I have a 2016 RSQ3, but the problem is relevant to the 8P RS3.

The car has been using oil, not a lot, but over the last couple of years it's been significant enough to cause concern.

I did notice recently that it smokes a little on cold startup for a few seconds, and also after being left for a while once warm. Once that clears through afaik it doesn't do it. My first thought is valve stem oil seals.

I did have a leak under the turbo inlet that was looked at by Bradford Audi last year and although improved, it is still there slightly. Im not sure if this is related.

I also recently replaced the pcv valve on top of the cam cover and on inspection it did have a small split in the diagram....bingo I thought, but it still does it

I have done a compression test on the cylinders and they are all within 5psi of each other and strong (200-205psi) so I don't think its rings.

The car does occasionally feel very slightly lumpy on tickover but other than that it drives really nice and pulls well.

The car is APR stage 1 (done 2 years ago) and has 44k on the clock.

Anyone have any ideas of where to look?

 

[flybynite]

IMHO it is not getting past the rings, most common problem is the oil getting past the turbo bearing. I would check to see if you have any oil in the intercooler pipe.

Turbo is hardest on the oil because of pressures and temps. The turbo can knacker the oil then the bad oil can take out the engine.

 

[-Ju-]

Thanks for the reply.

I did wonder if the turbo was worth a look, would that lead to oil collecting in the pipe and giving that puff of blue on startup?

It's never been abused (or at least in the last 5 years) and it's had oil changes every 4-5k

Should there be a small amount in the inlet pipe?

 

[-Ju-]

Also would the turbo tie in with the oil leak around the inlet. It was quite bad before they "fixed" it!

I'd have a look under today but I've busted my knee and the wife would kill me lol

 

[flybynite]

Yes, if oil is leaking into the turbo, it can pool in the inlet (via the intercooler) or in the exhaust, sometimes both. I would check the turbo for play and the intercooler pipe or turbo outlet for oil.

Only takes one time for the turbo bearing to go

Good luck

 

[-Ju-]

Ok thanks for your help, I'll try the pipe one night this week.

 

[-Ju-]

Ok so I had chance to get under the car today and remove the turbo pipe.

The pipe was fine, nothing to see. However both the rubber pipes at each end of the intercooler pipe did have a fair bit of oil sat in there.

I called in at the place that did the map 2 years ago and he recommended an oil flush and change, and to send a sample of oil off for analysis so I've ordered that

 

[dave_beastttt]

What oil weight do you use?

 

[-Ju-]

What oil weight do you use?

As in grade?

I use the standard 5w30 castrol edge. The car isn't driven to anywhere near its potential and its mainly short 2 mile there and back trips tbh, which is the problem

I've flushed it and changed the oil ......no difference. Just waiting for a sample kit from millers to send that off.

I'm thinking it must be the turbo?

 

[dave_beastttt]

I would try 5w40 to see if there's any improvement, it does sound like the turbo seal, if it only happens at startup, it's clearing residual oil that has leaked when the turbo has cooled down.

 

[-Ju-]

I would try 5w40 to see if there's any improvement, it does sound like the turbo seal, if it only happens at startup, it's clearing residual oil that has leaked when the turbo has cooled down.

Afaik its only at startup. I need to book a slot with my son to follow behind and check lol

I think I'm just going to monitor the oil level for a while and see what happens, but next step will be turbo investigation I guess.

 

[paddy]

High Ju a few things to try, different engine i know but
Drain the oil out of the intercooler and pipes. I actually just put a new intercooler on and got 25bhp more instantly , they do fill with oil over time
My S3 started to smoke at about 80k miles when it was booted and i now use Mobil1 5/50 and its on a 142k and doesnt smoke and uses less than a litre per 10k miles.
Never put a flushing oil through a higher milage engine. its not needed if you use modern detergent oils and a bit of build up round pistons and bearings is not a bad thing as they wear and at higher milage.

 

[-Ju-]

High Ju a few things to try, different engine i know but
Drain the oil out of the intercooler and pipes. I actually just put a new intercooler on and got 25bhp more instantly , they do fill with oil over time
My S3 started to smoke at about 80k miles when it was booted and i now use Mobil1 5/50 and its on a 142k and doesnt smoke and uses less than a litre per 10k miles.
Never put a flushing oil through a higher milage engine. its not needed if you use modern detergent oils and a bit of build up round pistons and bearings is not a bad thing as they wear and at higher milage.

Hi Paddy, High mileage lol....its done 44k....2016.
I asked the same question over the flush as i've always been hesitant over them, but they said it liquefied everything and is something they do all the time. It was Millers EPP that was used and they are respected. Add it into a warmed up engine and run on a fast idle for 20 mins before changing the oil. Anyway its made no difference that I can tell!

I did wonder if it was residual oil in the pipes and cooler, so I guess time will tell on the dipstick with that one.

I have kept up with the Audi warranty but I guess any sniff of a modification and its goodnight Vienna on that one.

 

[paddy]

Sorry i replied to another thread and the guy had done 80k. got mixed up
I remember back in the day when we all had 8p's some drank oil and some didnt and the quoted Audi acceptable limit was 1L per 1k miles. which really equates to a total loss system My thinking is that manufacturers use the thinnest oil possible in everything to get the MPG up. Its ok if their machining tolerances are spot on but in my experience, oil bypass is as much about way to thin oil as it is about any wear especially once everything has bedded in.
Hope you get it sorted

 

[-Ju-]

No worries Paddy lol


View: https://youtube.com/shorts/DtuqzVnei8E?si=iO4Y9sDy1yxLGMyx

I find it embarrassing as much as anything but also annoying as I've no plans to change it, its still a great car, but I hate problems!

 

[-Ju-]

Anyone had any issues with the cam cover on the RS3, TTRS or RSQ3. The one with the round diaghram on top?

This is the breather pipe from the cover to the turbo inlet.

I've had the cover off and there is a lot more going on inside the cover than just a diagram!
Compression is good across all 5 cylinders and there is a slight suction on the filler cap, which i think is normal, so i dont think its excessive blow by.

I might just put a new cover on, but they aren't exactly cheap

 

[paddy]

Cant help Ju as i am not up on the 5 pot but this is a result of these blinking greens who insist on recirculating everything now. I recently had warning lights flashing because the breather pipe from the petrol tank was partially blocked because i over filled the tank ( dont brim the tank when filling) and rather than just vent the tank they run a pipe from the tank to a charcoal fitter under the bonnet via 2 electric one way valves. Nothing like making a simple problem as complicated as they can....

 

[-Ju-]

Yeah I know Paddy, was a lot easier when you could vent to atmosphere.

I had it in at the dealers all last week while I was away and the only thing they could find was a remap. They couldn't even see it smoking ***!

Do you use TPS at all? Never have but I thought I might try given the price of the cover. I know some will sell no questions asked and others are proper jobsworths!

 

[paddy]

Sorry not used TPS
I use QST in haywards heath for tuning and my local garage for servicing and basics.
Have you put a OBD reader on it, it doesnt have to have light on to have a fault stored ?
it might give you a pointer

 

[-Ju-]

Sorry not used TPS
I use QST in haywards heath for tuning and my local garage for servicing and basics.
Have you put a OBD reader on it, it doesnt have to have light on to have a fault stored ?
it might give you a pointer

Yeah mate there's nothing on vcds and never has been.

 

[-Ju-]

Right so the diagnosis is Valve stem oil seals, been quoted £4k to do.

So firstly I guess chasing the dealer is pointless with the remap even though I have a warranty. Its been using oil since before that but the map is a red flag to them.

Secondly then, is £4k about right? They are taking the head off to do it

And thirdly, anyone know a reputable vag indi around leeds/bradford for a comparison quote?

Can't say i'm chuffed with only 46k on the clock and never abused!

Either way it will be fixed

 

[paddy]

I think unless they can prove the remap has played a part its not going to effect your warranty. My car has done 150k now 100k at Stg2+ and still pulls under 4 sec to 60 and the valve guide oils seals are fine. so my concern would be why have yours gone in the first place and more importantly are the valve stems worn and are the guides worn and would you do the work to change the seals without doing the guides and stems if they are the cause..

My local garage charges £100 an a hour, Audi charge £200 an hour with vat which obviously doubles the cost
My guess would be £2k however these independents use a set time scale on line available to all garages so my guess is the cost will be wholly dependant on their hourly rate.

I feel for you, iu had to replace the rear diff at 45k and that was £3600....joys of running an Audi.

 

[-Ju-]

They charge £90 and hour Paddy. He did say they have the same issue with another 8U RSQ3 atm albeit with a lot higher mileage.
They did the turbo on that and noticed the "wet" valve stems while the turbo was off.
I did send an oil sample away a couple of months ago and that came back with very minimal wear metals in the oil so I dont think the guides are worn tbh. There was a little fuel dilution which I put down to the short trips.
The oil usage does seem to be getting worse also and I need the car for a break in October down to Gloucestershire.

 

[paddy]

My car started to smoke at 50k miles, it was using about 2.5 ltr a year (10k miles). Audi say tolerance is 1k a litre
I switched on recommendation to Mobil1 5/50 and straight away it stopped smoking and even now uses 1 ltr a year and thats 100k later

I dont like these super thin oils, they use them as they give you a better MPG supposedly as less engine drag but TBH that might be fine when the engine is tight but by 50k its not tight and a thicker oil is beneficial. Steer well clear of these long life oils as well
I wouldn't be at all surprised if a lot of your problems were solved with a thicker oil, at £60 for 4 ltrs its a cheap experiment.
when you look at what oils to use they nearly all say thin because of the economical aspect but i think the wear bit is a lot more important than the MPG besides you might be talking about 1 or 2 mpg at best anyway.

What is 5W50 oil used for?


AI Overview

5W-50 oil is used in high-performance engines and for extreme driving conditions like motorsport, high temperatures, and towing. It provides fast-flowing protection during cold starts (indicated by the "5W") and maintains strong, high-viscosity protection at high operating temperatures (the "50"). This high-performance oil is ideal for vehicles like Porsches, Mercedes AMGs, and other high-powered engines that demand extra lubrication and protection under severe use.

 

[flybynite]

dont like these super thin oils, they use them as they give you a better MPG supposedly as less engine drag but TBH that might be fine when the engine is tight but by 50k its not tight and a thicker oil is beneficial. Steer well clear of these long life oils as well

I am with you on this. I use 5w40 on the DAZA and won't touch 5w30 or even worse 0w30. This thin stuff is purely for emissions, with no thought or concern for longevity..

These engines run hot (both the iron and ally blocks) thicker oil is a definite benefit especially when oil starvation at the top end has come into question on a lot of these VAG engines.

Don't get me started on 'long life' either. Mine gets yearly changes and that is only because it does way less than 10K a year otherwise it would be 6 months.

One thought, has anyone used Millers? Been known not to like heat of hot running turbo cars and form a sludge that blocks the oil feeds and galleries, seen it cause a lot of issues myself, not just in VAG cars

 

[-Ju-]

Appreciate what you guys are saying but I'm not sure a different grade of oil will cure this for me tbh.

Currently on an oil usage test and 500 miles in, the dipstick is a 1/4 past min ....I guess thats roughly 750ml so far from max?

 

[paddy]

Millers is ok but not really an Audi oil TBH especially turbo's
I have always used Mobil1. The guy that used to live next door was a oil tech with Mobil when they developed Mobil synthetic to use in Concord Engines. running from 0-200c
I used in in my Yamaha FZR1000 and did over 100k on it and bikes are 10x harder on oil than cars not least because the engine oil is also the gearbox oil.. I have always thought its bordering on criminal the way they push these water thin oils especially past 50k miles.

 

[paddy]

its a verty cheap try Ju, i wouldn't even begin to suggest something like this if it hadn't worked and really surprised me.

 

[-Ju-]

The cars all fixed now

Got it back in Wednesday and then had to take it back on Thursday. It drove home fine on Wednesday but when I used it on Thursday the engine management light came on with a camshaft error.

They re did the valve timing Thursday evening and all seems good now. No smoke and after a 200 mile road trip, no oil usage either so fingers crossed.

I have a couple of annoying issues though.

Firstly they've managed to quite badly mark my new rocker cover. This was new and cost £500, anyone now a touch up to match the red?

Also the dipstick snags in the tube in and out so im guessing it's linked somewhere!

Just minor irritations as other than that we're all good

 

[paddy]

Great news Ju but how did the valve timing go out ?

 

[paddy]

I am currently looking for a sport back RSQ3 about 2020. I did get seriously interested in a Macan however i didn't meet anyone who thought it was a good idea including my local garage that looks after the S3 and has several Macan's on its books. Odd as the engine is a 3.0 Audi lump but it apparently has an awful reputation for short life and several people said it needs a service history with 6k oil changes after the first few services or the bore liners wear badly and its an almost uneconomical engine out fix. (fixed on the later 2.9 version )

 

[-Ju-]

Great news Ju but how did the valve timing go out ?

I dont know Paddy tbh. The chains and camshaft etc were removed on the strip down so I can only assume something wasn't quite right on the rebuild. It was only when the car was cold I got the error. All fine now though.

 

[-Ju-]

I am currently looking for a sport back RSQ3 about 2020. I did get seriously interested in a Macan however i didn't meet anyone who thought it was a good idea including my local garage that looks after the S3 and has several Macan's on its books. Odd as the engine is a 3.0 Audi lump but it apparently has an awful reputation for short life and several people said it needs a service history with 6k oil changes after the first few services or the bore liners wear badly and its an almost uneconomical engine out fix. (fixed on the later 2.9 version )

My pal has a Macan S and although a nice car, it does feel slow and barge like tbh.

Have you tried the F3 RSQ3 yet? The sportback does look better in the right spec and colour imo....especially with the maxton kit on. Just be careful of any missing kit on that year due to covid shortages and also there have been a few with cam follower issues that will toast the engine.

 

[paddy]

I have to say there is nothing wrong with the S3 still at 150k its me thats wearing out.....I am ok falling in but getting out is a different story, it is slightly lowered on H&R but i think its only a cm or so. I need something a bit higher up but i am not ready for a Qashqai or a bus pass just yet

 

[paddy]

You mention rebuild ? What was the issue in the end, valve stem seals ? If so surely that would be worth chasing up Audi ?

 

[-Ju-]

Lol...I completely get it Paddy.

My son has a 23 plate S3 and its like raising the titanic getting me out of it and I'm builder on my feet all day so no couch potato!

Spending the money to fix my RSQ3 was a no brainer, its a great car and feels special with that engine wether an 8U or F3

 

[-Ju-]

You mention rebuild ? What was the issue in the end, valve stem seals ? If so surely that would be worth chasing up Audi ?

Yes valve seals. Pointless now and in all honesty I had that discussion down at the dealership and they were dismissive that it could be the seals. They wouldn't even give me a price to do it as its modified.