SFD2.....................

Mike.46

Mike.46

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It came as quite a surprise to me when I asked a simple question about turning speed bongs on a RS3 FL off, or to a 'remember last setting'

The information below is not from me, it is purely a 'copy paste' from someone on the SeatCupra forum who appears to know what he is talking about, it's a little worrying that the likes of SFD2 is going to tie you to a dealer for just about anything going forward...

After discussions with retrofitters and VW engineers, here is what I know about SFD2:

- SFD2 was implemented as a result of passing stricter EU legislations for vehicles. The legislations in question are: UNECE R155 (Cyber Security and Cyber Security Management System [CSMS]) & UNECE R156 (Software Update and Software Update Management Systems [SUMS])

- SFD2 does not work like SFD. A SFD2 token is a two part authentication token - release is granted if a part of the token stored on your cars unit matches with the half stored on VW servers. It is possible that a 3rd party will never be able to unlock an SFD2 protected unit as they would require unprecedented access to VW databases... I don't know if VW will go for that. But, VW likes money, so given time we might get SFD2 capable 3rd party diagnostics, but for sure it won't be cheap...

- Even for online ODIS, some changes cannot be done - my colleague with dealership access rights to ODIS had issue disabling ISA (Intelligent speed assist) on a Golf 8 FL. I assume it will be the same for disabling other "safety features" due to stricter regulatory pressures on VW from the legislative body of the EU to have them active.

- Even with ODIS you need to pay a "session fee" to log into a SFD2 protected unit. It is a true money drain. One coding session (per unit) is cca 130 euro + VAT. Now imagine coding a feature spread across several units...
- Adding or swapping SFD2 protected units might not be possible - for an unit not originally fitted to the car, the SFD2 tokens on the unit and VW server won't match, possibly blocking parametrization of the unit.

So guys, if you like to work on your car it's is best to stick to the pre-SFD2 models. Might take a while before we can do anything to the new cars.
 
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Mike.46 said:
It came as quite a surprise to me when I asked a simple question about turning speed bongs on a RS3 FL off, or to a 'remember last setting'

The information below is not from me, it is purely a 'copy paste' from someone on the SeatCupra forum who appears to know what he is talking about, it's a little worrying that the likes of SFD2 is going to tie you to a dealer for just about anything going forward...

After discussions with retrofitters and VW engineers, here is what I know about SFD2:

- SFD2 was implemented as a result of passing stricter EU legislations for vehicles. The legislations in question are: UNECE R155 (Cyber Security and Cyber Security Management System [CSMS]) & UNECE R156 (Software Update and Software Update Management Systems [SUMS])

- SFD2 does not work like SFD. A SFD2 token is a two part authentication token - release is granted if a part of the token stored on your cars unit matches with the half stored on VW servers. It is possible that a 3rd party will never be able to unlock an SFD2 protected unit as they would require unprecedented access to VW databases... I don't know if VW will go for that. But, VW likes money, so given time we might get SFD2 capable 3rd party diagnostics, but for sure it won't be cheap...

- Even for online ODIS, some changes cannot be done - my colleague with dealership access rights to ODIS had issue disabling ISA (Intelligent speed assist) on a Golf 8 FL. I assume it will be the same for disabling other "safety features" due to stricter regulatory pressures on VW from the legislative body of the EU to have them active.

- Even with ODIS you need to pay a "session fee" to log into a SFD2 protected unit. It is a true money drain. One coding session (per unit) is cca 130 euro + VAT. Now imagine coding a feature spread across several units...
- Adding or swapping SFD2 protected units might not be possible - for an unit not originally fitted to the car, the SFD2 tokens on the unit and VW server won't match, possibly blocking parametrization of the unit.

So guys, if you like to work on your car it's is best to stick to the pre-SFD2 models. Might take a while before we can do anything to the new cars.
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Yup it's a new security feature for the Gateway, Cupra Born owners are reporting the new 24/25 models are locked down, so no to lane assist / speed warnings being turned off I'm afraid......

OBD11 are supposed to be working on a fix but i wouldn't hold your breath......
 
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Mike.46 said:
SFD2 was implemented as a result of passing stricter EU legislations for vehicles.
Click to expand...

He is not wrong, if you look at the legislation, it is beholden to manufacturers to plug any and all holes that they are aware of in previous cars mainly for security and emissions. All EU sales are affected the same.

It is only going one way, I can't see it going back.

As I have said before 2018, pre OPF, pre SFD is what I will be driving from now on. The 8V is staying and if anything happens to that I will get a diesel with a mechanical fuel pump. :icon thumright:
 
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flybynite said:
He is not wrong, if you look at the legislation, it is beholden to manufacturers to plug any and all holes that they are aware of in previous cars mainly for security and emissions. All EU sales are affected the same.

It is only going one way, I can't see it going back.

As I have said before 2018, pre OPF, pre SFD is what I will be driving from now on. The 8V is staying and if anything happens to that I will get a diesel with a mechanical fuel pump. :icon thumright:
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Basically.....they don't want people meddling with their cars anymore, am surprised it's taken them this long to be fair, like the ECU mapping situation, all back door stuff now and back to the 90's way of removing it to modify.
 
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Frustrating. I just wanted to turn on Scandinavian DRLs with my OBDeleven, but, nope.
Unless anyone can tell me that I am being a dullard.
 
I recently had a new Audi on loan and the car had the version 2 SFD active.

Because Audi have to have a system that complies with the law they have a car that chooses to be over cautious. I do think the speed limit "Bong" could be handy but it just doesn't seem work properly. In the village 20mph zones, the car was indicating they were 30! On an unrestricted road the Audi was adamant that the speed limit was 50 and was quite insistent I should be aware. Last year the speed along the road was indeed reduced whilst some work was going on, but that limit had been 40!

My RS3, & TT often get the speeds incorrect, with a flashing speed sign in the VC, but I can live with that. A-I that doesn't work is extremely annoying and very distracting. Looks like my current cars will be my "Forever" cars. Thank goodness I'm old!
 
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Splathead said:
Frustrating. I just wanted to turn on Scandinavian DRLs with my OBDeleven, but, nope.
Unless anyone can tell me that I am being a dullard.
Click to expand...
Sorry but that'll be a no.
 
8YARWY said:
all back door stuff now and back to the 90's way of removing it to modify.
Click to expand...

From what I hear they have made that all-but-impossible too

Barmybobuk said:
Looks like my current cars will be my "Forever" cars. Thank goodness I'm old!
Click to expand...

Same here :grinning: not bothered if I do my last drive in the 8V.

Every car I am looking at now is over 10 years old, IMHO best cars have already been made
 
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I kinda feel the same - and I'm not even that old yet. :grimacing: We have a hobby car that's as old as me, looks like it might the one car we still own after getting rid of all the modern computers on four wheels... if there'll be gasoline still sold at that point.

Seriously I think with all the OTA stuff, handy as it is, the increased cyber safety is nothing short of necessity, even if it makes it harder to do minor mods to the functions of your car. And that sucks because it's basically got nothing to do with cars! Just sad everything is "cyber" now and therefore hackable.

And also that SFD2 sounds like something that makes the basic maintenance more expensive, as if it wasn't already on the edge of tolerable.
 
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I think I would need to look at just what I have altered, or used vcds on my current car before making the decision whether I would go to the new FL version.

I have basically just:

Turned the lane assist to remember last setting, tried to turn the rear wiper auto function off when reversing with front wipers 'active'.....but SFD stopped me.

Used VCDS to get rid of loads of alarms when wifey forgets she needs her Pandora fob even when she is just going to get her sunglasses out of the car

Watched some of the Audi nanny functions in operation on cold start, cold mornings etc.

Thats about it tbh,

I wonder if the FL would react badly to having a Pandora fitted? or indeed the exhaust valve controller
 
Mike.46 said:
I think I would need to look at just what I have altered, or used vcds on my current car before making the decision whether I would go to the new FL version.

I have basically just:

Turned the lane assist to remember last setting, tried to turn the rear wiper auto function off when reversing with front wipers 'active'.....but SFD stopped me.

Used VCDS to get rid of loads of alarms when wifey forgets she needs her Pandora fob even when she is just going to get her sunglasses out of the car

Watched some of the Audi nanny functions in operation on cold start, cold mornings etc.

Thats about it tbh,

I wonder if the FL would react badly to having a Pandora fitted? or indeed the exhaust valve controller
Click to expand...
I sold my valve controller and the new owner couldn't get it to work, after some emails to ASR i finally managed to guide the buyer in the correct way to active it, however it did sound like if the car was a FL 8Y then the ASR might encounter issues.
This will now lead to install of these types of things, and JB4 etc tricky as any errors flagged you cannot remove, and this could prove an issue if warranty work is required on any of the engine / exhaust side.
 
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My new SQ5, an end of line FY, is locked down too. I’m stuck with door bongs, seatbelt bongs, and can‘t change the default setting of any of the annoying ”assist” systems (stop/start, speed warning, lane assist) to off. So many things to do before I can just drive away.
 
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8YARWY said:
I sold my valve controller and the new owner couldn't get it to work, after some emails to ASR i finally managed to guide the buyer in the correct way to active it, however it did sound like if the car was a FL 8Y then the ASR might encounter issues.
This will now lead to install of these types of things, and JB4 etc tricky as any errors flagged you cannot remove, and this could prove an issue if warranty work is required on any of the engine / exhaust side.
Click to expand...
I just checked the ASR web page, it 'appears' that a new version for 8Y FL also sorts speed warnings, lane assist and SS, maybe there is a small LED at the end of the tunnel :) :yahoo:

Just one small catch............................it's close to 800 euro :(

 
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That's ridiculous price of a tweak that should basically be a feature in the car settings!
 
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janjan said:
Except it is not. There regular module remains 425 euro.
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I bought the std unit for my 2022 car, turning just the SS off is OK by me (I did lane assist via vcds) but with the FL car having to switch off SS, Lane assist, speed bongs would get boring so for me it would have to be the 800euro option :(
 
Mike.46 said:
I guess you have a lot of time for reading now whilst your car charges up :laugh:
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No pal it charges up overnight thanks. Heard them all a thousand times before.
Certainly don’t miss the bullcrap that is Audi
 
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8YARWY said:
No pal it charges up overnight thanks. Heard them all a thousand times before.
Certainly don’t miss the bullcrap that is Audi
Click to expand...
I still like the look of some of the Audi cars and would loke to be able to afford the new RS5 (or RS4?!) Avant when it appears if it's a plug in hybrid that's not massively heavy. But I think the way the prices are going it'll be far too much for me to afford unfortunately.

But I 100% agree with the charging statement. I put mine on overnight and I have a full tank of electrons in the morning, I never need to wait anywhere for a charge. The one time I've had to use a public charger it went from 12% to 78% in the time I took to order, receive and eat a Starbucks toastie and a few swigs of coffee. If I had one complaint then it would definitely be cost, I maintain that electric vehicles aren't worth it if you can't charge them at home.
 
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Daggerit said:
I still like the look of some of the Audi cars and would loke to be able to afford the new RS5 (or RS4?!) Avant when it appears if it's a plug in hybrid that's not massively heavy. But I think the way the prices are going it'll be far too much for me to afford unfortunately.

But I 100% agree with the charging statement. I put mine on overnight and I have a full tank of electrons in the morning, I never need to wait anywhere for a charge. The one time I've had to use a public charger it went from 12% to 78% in the time I took to order, receive and eat a Starbucks toastie and a few swigs of coffee. If I had one complaint then it would definitely be cost, I maintain that electric vehicles aren't worth it if you can't charge them at home.
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A friend just bought a Q6-Etron.
Lovely car but again crazy money.

I just couldn’t stand getting involved with Audi and all their p**s poor dealer network ever again
 
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8YARWY said:
No pal it charges up overnight thanks. Heard them all a thousand times before.
Certainly don’t miss the bullcrap that is Audi
Click to expand...
Pal? :laughing:

But yet you still feel the need to frequent an Audi forum, is it just to slate Audi? have you made a mistake and are secretly missing owning one?
 
Mike.46 said:
Pal? :laughing:

But yet you still feel the need to frequent an Audi forum, is it just to slate Audi? have you made a mistake and are secretly missing owning one?
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You made the comment, why get upset ? because i said i can read in #19 ? or that I don't miss Audi dealer bull in #22 ? Or an observation of a price doubling for 3/4 extra features in that ASR device......?

Or is it the fact i took the time to reply in post #13 ?

If you don't like my replies, block me or ignore me, I'm not fussed......
 
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8YARWY said:
You made the comment, why get upset ? because i said i can read in #19 ? or that I don't miss Audi dealer bull in #22 ? Or an observation of a price doubling for 3/4 extra features in that ASR device......?

Or is it the fact i took the time to reply in post #13 ?

If you don't like my replies, block me or ignore me, I'm not fussed......
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I just struggle to understand why you still feel the need to post your Audi 'dislike' (at best) on here?

I get it, your pizzed off with Audi, you have sold your Audi and other VAG cars because you don't like the cars and, or the dealer network anymore, that's fine, I got pizzed off with a Motorcycle manufacturer about 10 years ago when they kept painting the same bike different colours year after year and the dealer and spares network was diabolical,

I said my piece on the associated Forum as to why i was jumping ship and left...............................................
 
Mike.46 said:
I just struggle to understand why you still feel the need to post your Audi 'dislike' (at best) on here?

I get it, your pizzed off with Audi, you have sold your Audi and other VAG cars because you don't like the cars and, or the dealer network anymore, that's fine, I got pizzed off with a Motorcycle manufacturer about 10 years ago when they kept painting the same bike different colours year after year and the dealer and spares network was diabolical,

I said my piece on the associated Forum as to why i was jumping ship and left...............................................
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lol I’ve replied to some of your posts in this thread and I wouldn’t say nastily or anything, yet the only reply you could come back with was a jibe about charging.
Like I said scroll past / ignore my posts if they offend thee.
 
Anyone disabled the sound actuator of an RS3 2025 with OBDeleven or VDCS?
Or is this also secured?
 
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