B9 My new to me Navarra RS4
- Thread starter alps26
- Start date
I think they use a sunroof drain cleaning rod like this but the sunroof servicing includes lubricating some of the mechanisms and I think "special" grease is needed.
Unrelated - If you have an iPhone, are you having any audio drop out issues when playing music via CarPlay? My MMI is on v3620 which is from 2021. I've got the dealer looking into this too.
First of all have you got comfort closing on that car. It has come and gone over the years with changing legislation but on some cars, rain on the sensor will close the sunroof and windows (I have had one close the shade too on an older VW)
These pan sunroofs are quite complicated and need the correct lubricant. Squirting random stuff in it is known to cause issues. Correct stuff is called Krytox GPL (105 oil or 205 grease) not cheap but is anything for these cars?. Not difficult to do the service yourself, I give both of mine a good clean, including the drains and re-lubricate every year.
That is what I use too but I also gently blow it out with an airline blow gun, you have to be careful not to blow the pipe off the sunroof but tipping some water down and gently blowing it through is quite effective along with the flexible brush
It's possible it is the comfort closing is causing the issue because the locks were going nuts when water was hitting the handles when washing, but I couldn't see anything in the manual about if it closes the sunshade. In that case I'd expect it to shut the sunroof, but not the shade.
It's also done it when its been raining and the key hasn't been near the car. Something is leaking because there is soapy water marks on the inside of the windscreen post washing but it could be separate to the sun shade behaviour as you say.
This stuff? Amazon product
View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Special-Lubricant-Krytox-Convertible-052172A1/dp/B00PV73C9I/ref=asc_df_B00PV73C9I?mcid=9e94cbf8a104350a8960f3b834cc2d4c&hvocijid=18421337162451658775-B00PV73C9I-&hvexpln=74&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696285193871&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18421337162451658775&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046527&hvtargid=pla-2281435176698&psc=1&gad_source=1
Yes that is the stuff (oil) there is a Krytox grease too that is better in some places. The ELSA instructions on the sunroof are quite thorough and plenty online about doing a krytox sunroof service. The cassette itself is fairly standard and used in most long roof VWs for many years now
Thanks chaps! It's definitely got carbon in the bits its supposed to have along the front even though it doesn't show up so well in that photo. It was just that extra bit that's a shame it's not. It's unclear to me how big that part actually is because when the bonnet is up you can see that it disappears under another piece and I don't fancy taking that apart, just yet. Had there been an off the shelf replacement I could have gauged the difficulty.
I've used G00045002 OEM before to lubricate the slide rails.
The cassette on the B8 was made by Webasto and wasn't fit for purpose. It was also subject to class action in the US from memory.
To access the drain tubes is actually quite intensive if the leak is suspected at the tube cassette conection, disable battery (due to curtain airbags), A pillar trims, electric controls in roof, sunshades, interior grab handles, seat belt trim, etc. Once that's done you can access the roof lining to drop. You need to work clean, especially on light grey versions. The roof lining doesn't take much to crease.
I've written about this on B8 forum quite extensively, replacing motors, sunshade motors and eventually getting a fix on a leak.
If Audi notices leak, and its confirmed its the cassette, I'd suspect they would swap out.
VCDS is useful for resetting or relearning roof functions if changing motors, etc.
The cassette on the B8 was made by Webasto and wasn't fit for purpose. It was also subject to class action in the US from memory.
To access the drain tubes is actually quite intensive if the leak is suspected at the tube cassette conection, disable battery (due to curtain airbags), A pillar trims, electric controls in roof, sunshades, interior grab handles, seat belt trim, etc. Once that's done you can access the roof lining to drop. You need to work clean, especially on light grey versions. The roof lining doesn't take much to crease.
I've written about this on B8 forum quite extensively, replacing motors, sunshade motors and eventually getting a fix on a leak.
If Audi notices leak, and its confirmed its the cassette, I'd suspect they would swap out.
VCDS is useful for resetting or relearning roof functions if changing motors, etc.
They called me earlier and said they've had it on "water test" and they haven't seen anything leak, which is annoying but I half expected them to say this. I purposely left the soapy water marks on the windscreen so I've suggested they try and trace those back.
Given where your water marks are I would guess it is simply blocked drains which they do all the time. The cassette fills up and overflows into the cabin. It needs a good downpour to do this. My guess it is parked nose down slightly?
I maybe wrong but I don't think it is the pipe connection onto the sunroof tray. The water tends to just be in the footwell if that is the case. Unlikely to get onto the sunroof blind or windscreen.
My driveway is flat (they asked me that when they called too). I also think its a blocked drain but I want them to replace/repair the switches/light unit if its been damaged because the drains should have been cleared before I bought it.
I've only done 1500miles since November when I picked it up and most of the time its sat in the garage or under the car port so I don't think they will have got blocked in that time. Will certainly be using the car more when the weather is a bit warmer.
Got the car back from the dealer, and they weren't able to find the leak. They didn't investigate where the soapy water marks on the inside of the windscreen came from either. They've said there is another kit they can order in which can test for leaks but the service lady wasn't sure what it was exactly. They said they've cleaned the sunroof drains so maybe that's sorted it, will find out when I next wash it.
I spoke to a local automotive glass company and they wouldn't replace any leaking glass without testing. I could pay them to do the test to conclusively find the leak but will see if it leaks again when I next wash it.
They were unable to sort my CarPlay audio dropping out too. It's definitely not the phone as it never dropped out in the A6 courtesy car they gave me and it never dropped out on my old S3 with a cheapo wireless CarPlay module from China.
All in all, a bit disappointed with the outcomes but also half expected them.
I spoke to a local automotive glass company and they wouldn't replace any leaking glass without testing. I could pay them to do the test to conclusively find the leak but will see if it leaks again when I next wash it.
They were unable to sort my CarPlay audio dropping out too. It's definitely not the phone as it never dropped out in the A6 courtesy car they gave me and it never dropped out on my old S3 with a cheapo wireless CarPlay module from China.
All in all, a bit disappointed with the outcomes but also half expected them.
I use a tiny USB thumb drive (millimetres in size, it’s quite amazing), plugged into my USB port. I know it’s not carplay but the audio quality is definitely better than the Bluetooth connection. Is it worth doing that in the meantime? Just copy your audio files onto the stick.
Let us know how your leak goes. Disappointing to hear.
Let us know how your leak goes. Disappointing to hear.
Yep, I have a USB stick in the USB port but I'm too lazy to keep updating it! I will try CarPlay on a wired connection and see if it does it then.
I washed the car yesterday and stuck a piece of tissue to the windscreen with blu-tack to see if it got wet. It didn't leak and the sun shade didn't close by itself either so I dont know if this is a good thing or not. I even set up my phone inside the car to video the tissue and sunshade whilst I washed the car so I had evidence!
The seal around the moving glass piece of the sunroof had a layer of mud all around it so I cleaned that off and treated the seals with some Koch Chemie Plast Star to keep them supple.
I can only keep an eye on it, maybe the dealer clearing the drains again has solved it.
I washed the car yesterday and stuck a piece of tissue to the windscreen with blu-tack to see if it got wet. It didn't leak and the sun shade didn't close by itself either so I dont know if this is a good thing or not. I even set up my phone inside the car to video the tissue and sunshade whilst I washed the car so I had evidence!
The seal around the moving glass piece of the sunroof had a layer of mud all around it so I cleaned that off and treated the seals with some Koch Chemie Plast Star to keep them supple.
I can only keep an eye on it, maybe the dealer clearing the drains again has solved it.
Me too! I'm still convinced something is leaking because it condensates a lot when it rains to the point the back window is dripping.
I've got some doubt on the windscreen seal too but will monitor for a few weeks and see whats what.
Managed to hit 37mpg at the weekend on a 190 mile trip. Was very impressed as the RS4 isn't made for economy nor was I expecting it to be economical when I bought it.
Shame the 58l fuel tank is so small for this car!
In other news, something is still leaking as the sun shade shut itself on Friday when I washed it, annoyingly, I didn't video it. Also, wired CarPlay worked flawlessly, no audio dropouts at all so I suspect there is some interference going on. Might have to give up on the CarPlay issue as I can't see Audi being able to replicate it unless they drive it around for hours.
Shame the 58l fuel tank is so small for this car!
In other news, something is still leaking as the sun shade shut itself on Friday when I washed it, annoyingly, I didn't video it. Also, wired CarPlay worked flawlessly, no audio dropouts at all so I suspect there is some interference going on. Might have to give up on the CarPlay issue as I can't see Audi being able to replicate it unless they drive it around for hours.
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Did you get any water in the cabin at all? As I say comfort closing of the shade is a thing that happens on some cars. (I have one) Comfort closing can be triggered by the rain sensor.
If you leave your widows and roof tilted and shade open does the shade close too if you lock the car and hold the lock button down to comfort close them?
Just tested this and the sunshade did close when you keep the lock button pressed - I couldn't see in the manual that this was expected behaviour which was why I was a bit dismissive of it initially (apologies). I also tested just holding the door handle with the sunshade open and the sunshade closed itself too so its possible some water was on the door handle sensor and the key was close by causing the sunshade to close. So the sunshade is a red herring.
There wasn't water in the cabin this time, but there certainly has that one time I washed it and it condensates a lot when it rains. The footwells are also dry. Maybe it takes time for the water to build up and overflow?
I've just taken it to the windscreen place and the sunroof is lower on one side which they said isn't normal and they said the paint on the front section of the roof has more orange peel in it than the back, indicating some work has been done there. The windscreen isn't flush where it meets the roof but said that could be normal from factory. They need to do some more checks with part of the headlining down to see what's going on but i'll need Audi to approve it in writing first. I'm not expecting a quick resolution.
View attachment IMG_0909.jpeg
You may find the rain sensor closed it for you. Try dripping water on the sensor with the windows/roof/shade open. It has to drip as I think it senses the noise/vibration too.
Yes, it only happened after a big downpour on mine where it couldn't drain fast enough.
Sounds like something that needs looking at unfortunately
So when you you remove that screw, did you just pop off the door card from the bottom only (so it's still attached at the top) or the entire door card come off? I was also just thinking of popping off the puddle light and the door warning reflector (with some trim removal tools) and using a rod to feed the wires through. Not too sure if the latter is even possible.
Yeah I left the door card attached at the top and just popped the bottom clips off. I think there is another screw around the door handle trim that you need to remove if you want to take the whole door card off.
You can try the rod method but I didn’t have anything suitable and there are some strengthening pieces on the curvature of the door card which the rod might keep snagging on.
Maybe check online for a pic of the back of the door card so you can see where the rod might snag, but popping the bottom clips off is the quickest way to fit the lights
With the weather being a bit better at the weekend, I took the chance to sort the windows on the car. There was some water staining on the glass which left an effect like this when it was wet (not my pic):
You didn't really notice it when it was dry but visibility wasn't great when it was wet. I managed to get it off with some Gtechniq G4 Nanotech Glass Polish and then coated the side windows and pan roof with Gtechniq G5 water repellent coating. It sounds odd but the windows are much clearer from when looking through them from the inside.
It was hard work as the staining had been there for a while and each piece of glass needed polishing twice with a decent amount of pressure.
After being polished and coated:
I also repaired the lug I broke on the carbon mirror cap so its more sturdy now, polished the exhaust tips (total waste of time) and reduced one of the scratches on the rear bumper so its hardly noticeable now.
Next job is claying, paint correction and ceramic coating but this is a job for when the weather is a bit warmer to allow stuff to cure. It's going to be a tough job because the previous owner hasn't looked after it cosmetically. There are considerable scratches on every panel with some bad ones on the roof! I think the dealership put a polish with fillers on it when I went to look at it so the majority of the scratches were temporarily filled in.
You didn't really notice it when it was dry but visibility wasn't great when it was wet. I managed to get it off with some Gtechniq G4 Nanotech Glass Polish and then coated the side windows and pan roof with Gtechniq G5 water repellent coating. It sounds odd but the windows are much clearer from when looking through them from the inside.
It was hard work as the staining had been there for a while and each piece of glass needed polishing twice with a decent amount of pressure.
After being polished and coated:
I also repaired the lug I broke on the carbon mirror cap so its more sturdy now, polished the exhaust tips (total waste of time) and reduced one of the scratches on the rear bumper so its hardly noticeable now.
Next job is claying, paint correction and ceramic coating but this is a job for when the weather is a bit warmer to allow stuff to cure. It's going to be a tough job because the previous owner hasn't looked after it cosmetically. There are considerable scratches on every panel with some bad ones on the roof! I think the dealership put a polish with fillers on it when I went to look at it so the majority of the scratches were temporarily filled in.
The one and only halogen bulb on the car was replaced with an LED one. It's just a normal W5W/T10 bulb that a lot of cars use for sidelights. No need for CANBUS specific ones.
I actually did this mod as soon as I got the car home after collecting it but I forgot that I did it.
I actually did this mod as soon as I got the car home after collecting it but I forgot that I did it.
I finally got around to detailing the RS4. Man was this a pain in the a**,! The paint is very hard and as I mentioned previously the last owner didn't really look after it and took it to a car wash so there was a lot of marks all around the car. I was able to remove about 80% of them, but some scratches were too deep to be removed. It's certainly not perfect but its about 10x better than it was.
I clayed the car then used Menzerna 400 heavy cut, followed by Menzerna 3000 final finish so it's had a 2 stage polish. I've ceramic coated it with Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light and then topped with Gtechniq Exo. Anyway, some pictures:
Even the wiper arms got some love, I'm calling these "black edition" wiper arms
. The paint on them looked like it was oxidised before I polished them up.
Just the wheels, exhaust tips and calipers left to ceramic coat with Gtechniq C5.
I clayed the car then used Menzerna 400 heavy cut, followed by Menzerna 3000 final finish so it's had a 2 stage polish. I've ceramic coated it with Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light and then topped with Gtechniq Exo. Anyway, some pictures:
Even the wiper arms got some love, I'm calling these "black edition" wiper arms
. The paint on them looked like it was oxidised before I polished them up.Just the wheels, exhaust tips and calipers left to ceramic coat with Gtechniq C5.
Another mod completed, added the drivers side storage compartment which is part of the storage pack. Someone was breaking a 2015 A4 on eBay with the compartment lid and tray that goes behind. Really easy to fit, only 3 bolts and some clips hold it in. Took me 10 mins to fit.
I didn't bother getting the proper screws from Audi for attaching the tray to the compartment lid. I had some M5x15 bolts from a TV bracket and some M5 washers so I used those, that aside, they're only like 50p each from Audi but I couldn't be bothered to go there. You can't see them anyway.
Before:
After:
There was a bit of dirt underneath the buttons for the parking sensors/start-stop panel, you can't see it from the drivers seat but you can see it from underneath when I was fitting the storage compartment so cleaned that up with some KC Pol Star and dressed with 303 Aerospace Protectant. It's an area that's easy to miss.
Thanks to @rjwojcik for confirming the parts and bolt sizes.
I didn't bother getting the proper screws from Audi for attaching the tray to the compartment lid. I had some M5x15 bolts from a TV bracket and some M5 washers so I used those, that aside, they're only like 50p each from Audi but I couldn't be bothered to go there. You can't see them anyway.
Before:
After:
There was a bit of dirt underneath the buttons for the parking sensors/start-stop panel, you can't see it from the drivers seat but you can see it from underneath when I was fitting the storage compartment so cleaned that up with some KC Pol Star and dressed with 303 Aerospace Protectant. It's an area that's easy to miss.
Thanks to @rjwojcik for confirming the parts and bolt sizes.
I was able to stop the sunshade closing when the lock button on the key/hoor handle is held with some VCDS coding
1. Go in to Module CA (Sunroof)
2. Adaptations
3. Search for '13330'
4. Set it to 'not active'
5. Do it!
You can also stop the sunshade from opening with the key by using the same coding above but look for '13329'. I didn't do this though.
In other news, next door neighbours new cat (feral little a******) has put scratches on the bonnet when it decided to sit on the roof. It lasted all of a week after all the polishing effort, I was fuming! I could polish them out but it means re-applying ceramic coating. I don't want to do that on a small patch and I don't have enough Exo left to do the whole bonnet so they're staying.
If anyone has any (humane) suggestions from keeping cats off the car I'd be open to hearing them
1. Go in to Module CA (Sunroof)
2. Adaptations
3. Search for '13330'
4. Set it to 'not active'
5. Do it!
You can also stop the sunshade from opening with the key by using the same coding above but look for '13329'. I didn't do this though.
In other news, next door neighbours new cat (feral little a******) has put scratches on the bonnet when it decided to sit on the roof. It lasted all of a week after all the polishing effort, I was fuming
! I could polish them out but it means re-applying ceramic coating. I don't want to do that on a small patch and I don't have enough Exo left to do the whole bonnet so they're staying.If anyone has any (humane) suggestions from keeping cats off the car I'd be open to hearing them
This weekend I ceramic coated the wheels, calipers and exhaust tips with Gtechniq C5 Wheel Armour.
Took ages because of the multi-spoke design of the wheels. 3 of the wheels have some light corrosion on the back of them but nothing too concerning. Most of the hairline scratches have come out of the wheels and hopefully I can reduce the number of contact washes on the wheels to avoid more scratches.
I also took the opportunity to remove the arch liners and clean behind them. Good job I did because where the front wings meet the door, there is like a box section which acts as a shelf and a small garden had accumulated on both sides, eventually it will rot the wing from the inside out. I must have removed a kilo of mud from both sides combined. I washed the arch liners too but didn't focus on these too much because they will get manky again immediately.
If you do clean this area (I recommend you do if you are going to keep your car long term), scrape out as much as you can whilst its dry, otherwise it shoots the mud into the door shut (and your face) if you try and blast it out - ask me how I know!
Crud on the front suspension arms, there was a lot behind the brake disc too:
Before pics of the rear arches:
After pics of the arches:
Wheels and calipers polished and coated:
I added the red Audi Sport decal to the wheels as there is meant to be a grey one on them and to make it my own. 3 of wheels have had their faced painted so they were missing and I had one properly refurbed a while back with the red decal under the lacquer. I think it looks well with the red calipers and breaks up the wheel.
Took ages because of the multi-spoke design of the wheels. 3 of the wheels have some light corrosion on the back of them but nothing too concerning. Most of the hairline scratches have come out of the wheels and hopefully I can reduce the number of contact washes on the wheels to avoid more scratches.
I also took the opportunity to remove the arch liners and clean behind them. Good job I did because where the front wings meet the door, there is like a box section which acts as a shelf and a small garden had accumulated on both sides, eventually it will rot the wing from the inside out. I must have removed a kilo of mud from both sides combined. I washed the arch liners too but didn't focus on these too much because they will get manky again immediately.
If you do clean this area (I recommend you do if you are going to keep your car long term), scrape out as much as you can whilst its dry, otherwise it shoots the mud into the door shut (and your face) if you try and blast it out - ask me how I know!
Crud on the front suspension arms, there was a lot behind the brake disc too:
Before pics of the rear arches:
After pics of the arches:
Wheels and calipers polished and coated:
I added the red Audi Sport decal to the wheels as there is meant to be a grey one on them and to make it my own. 3 of wheels have had their faced painted so they were missing and I had one properly refurbed a while back with the red decal under the lacquer. I think it looks well with the red calipers and breaks up the wheel.
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That is dedication, top marks for a lovely job.
I too have identified the crap traps and need to clean them out, may be the liners too. I am not too fussy about the wheels as I had them ceramic coated when the bodywork was done. However you are correct in that cleaning the black gloss wheel surface does leave tell tale signs, so i just power wash them as up here they become filthy again in a very short distance.
Mike
I too have identified the crap traps and need to clean them out, may be the liners too. I am not too fussy about the wheels as I had them ceramic coated when the bodywork was done. However you are correct in that cleaning the black gloss wheel surface does leave tell tale signs, so i just power wash them as up here they become filthy again in a very short distance.
Mike
Thanks!
I'm actually not a big fan of the wheel colour or design. I feel black wheels lose all the detail and like you say, get dirty immediately after washing. I thought about doing a colour change (Anthracite/gun metal) or change wheels but I'm undecided on whether I will keep this car long term. Maybe the black will grow on me now they shouldn't be so bad to keep clean.
Which other crap traps have you identified? Your car seems new so I doubt you will have much inside your wings but it will be interesting to see if there is (keep us posted if you decide to clear them out). I wasn't expecting to find that inside the wing otherwise I would have got some waxoyl/Lanoguard or something to coat the inside but can always be done later as it's not a big job.
I use ACF50 on the RS3 every time the wheels get changed, on other stuff that gets more of a beating I use a few different flavours of Dynax, bit thicker and sticks better but doesn't penetrate like the ACF50. I use a small portable compressor and cheap supermarket spray gun works a treat.
Just don't spray ACF50 anywhere you walk or you'll end up on your a$$ worse than boiler plate ice. Aske me how I know
Thanks, I looked at the Bilt-Hamber Dynax options but didn't know which one would be best for the inside of the wing. Which one would you use? Or would you use the ACF50?I use ACF50 on the RS3 every time the wheels get changed, on other stuff that gets more of a beating I use a few different flavours of Dynax, bit thicker and sticks better but doesn't penetrate like the ACF50. I use a small portable compressor and cheap supermarket spray gun works a treat.
Just don't spray ACF50 anywhere you walk or you'll end up on your a$$ worse than boiler plate ice. Aske me how I know
I haven't got a compressor so will likely rely on the spray can options.
If it is from the can then Dynax UC, ACF cans are pitiful and you end up spitting it at the car and brushing it around. From the spraygun it is fine but does go everywhere. ACF has good bite into any alloy corrosion but doesn't last long.
UB is the toughest stuff and has some straw colour to it, again best from a gun. UC is a happy medium, colourless and sort of sprays from the can. It is the only one of the three I have in a can for small jobs. My ideal for the family donkey is a light coat of ACF50 then a heavy coat of Dynax UB. RS3 gets ACF50 every 6 months. Old stuff get UC.
Wouldn't be without my mini compressor, 6l tank can top up tyres of 3 cars by itself, run the cheap spraygun for a few squirts a minute and doesn't annoy the neighbours or the missus
Thanks, i'll grab some Dynax UC. It looks to last 1-2 years but I reckon it will only last 1 year in that area of the wing given the crap that will get in there.If it is from the can then Dynax UC, ACF cans are pitiful and you end up spitting it at the car and brushing it around. From the spraygun it is fine but does go everywhere. ACF has good bite into any alloy corrosion but doesn't last long.
UB is the toughest stuff and has some straw colour to it, again best from a gun. UC is a happy medium, colourless and sort of sprays from the can. It is the only one of the three I have in a can for small jobs. My ideal for the family donkey is a light coat of ACF50 then a heavy coat of Dynax UB. RS3 gets ACF50 every 6 months. Old stuff get UC.
Wouldn't be without my mini compressor, 6l tank can top up tyres of 3 cars by itself, run the cheap spraygun for a few squirts a minute and doesn't annoy the neighbours or the missus
I thought about getting a compressor but its the space which is an issue for me, I only have a single garage and the car takes up all of it