41 in 40 limit speeding ticket

musicegbdf

Registered User
A friend has just got a speeding ticket ( camera) for 41 in 40 limit ! I know there is supposed to be zero tolerance , but that is crazy. So let us all stare at the speedo and crash into each other and get done for dangerous driving.

Anyone know if it is worth him contesting it. I suspect it is a computer generated ticket and perhaps needs some kind of common sense.

I am actually very careful about speed limits but there is one near me that I consider dangerous. There is a slip road off a 70 limit three lane carriageway and you come around the corner and it drops to 30. It is next to impossible to do that without someone crashing into you. I know it is there so I start slowing well before the 30 limit sign, but many could be caught.
 

pastey

Registered User
A friend has just got a speeding ticket ( camera) for 41 in 40 limit ! I know there is supposed to be zero tolerance , but that is crazy. So let us all stare at the speedo and crash into each other and get done for dangerous driving.

Anyone know if it is worth him contesting it. I suspect it is a computer generated ticket and perhaps needs some kind of common sense.

I am actually very careful about speed limits but there is one near me that I consider dangerous. There is a slip road off a 70 limit three lane carriageway and you come around the corner and it drops to 30. It is next to impossible to do that without someone crashing into you. I know it is there so I start slowing well before the 30 limit sign, but many could be caught.

They are suppose to allow 10% for speedo errors? I would contest
 

richinsoton

Registered User
I thought it was 10% + 1mph so 45mph.
 

The Kendragon

Registered User
I have also been told a 10% leeway so it might be worth looking into that
 

paradigital

Registered User
The 10%+x you are all referencing is an ACPO guideline, individual police forces don't HAVE to adhere to these, they are as suggested, guidelines.
 

allanmb

Registered User
I don't think there is an official 10% leeway. The old cameras had a 10% (or thereabouts ) leeway but this wasn't mandatory. I believe that mobile units are allowed to penalise you for any speed over the limit, and there are some motorway cameras that also do this too.

I have to admit I would be miffed if I were penalised for going 1mph over the limit though, and I would contest it
 

Andru8

Registered User
South Wales Police also have a zero tolerance for speeding. I do agree that he should challenge it as 1mph over is just ridiculous.
 

Supa Koopa

Registered User
I absolutely agree that it is ridiculous, but what exactly are you going to contest? The speed limit is 40mph and you were going 41mph, so unfortunately you were breaking the law. It isn't fair, justified or even sensible but unfortunately it is accurate. :(
 

wab172uk

Now in an X3 M40i And a Yaris GR-Four
I would personally contest this, as like the OP says, you can't be constantly looking at your speedo.

It's far more dangerous to be taking you eyes off the road, rather than creeping a few miles per hour over, but being able to see your surroundings.
 

AJB Audi

Registered User
I always thought that the 10% leeway was to recognise that car speedos couldn't be 100% accurate and so in this case the OP's friend could have genuinely thought he was doing 39 in a 40 (because he was carefully hovering below the permitted limit) but the real world speed, from a specially calibrated machine, was actually slightly higher.

Technically he was speeding, and the accuracy of the detection machine can doubtless be proven, but it does seem slightly unreasonable.
 

Ormesome

Registered User
My 14 plate A3 with analogue speedo reads around +3mph compared to my sat nav. So going by this your friend could have been doing nearly 45mph on his speedo no? What car was he in? if he was in an old Fiesta from 1995 then his speedo could have been reading quite high which brings in to question his own driving skills.....Speedo's always over read from what iv seen & experienced so the comment above mine where the driver thought he could have been going 39mph is not accurate. If he thought he was going 39 then he would have been going 37/38mph and therefore not receive a ticket.

1mph for a ticket does seem a bit harsh but maybe you could add some more context? was it is a school area? men working on the roads?time of day? adding this might get your friend some more sympathy... or not!!
 
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Milnesafc

Registered User
I absolutely agree that it is ridiculous, but what exactly are you going to contest? The speed limit is 40mph and you were going 41mph, so unfortunately you were breaking the law. It isn't fair, justified or even sensible but unfortunately it is accurate. :(
Contest that they weren't going 41 mph would be my guess.
 

allanmb

Registered User
I always thought that the 10% leeway was to recognise that car speedos couldn't be 100% accurate and so in this case the OP's friend could have genuinely thought he was doing 39 in a 40 (because he was carefully hovering below the permitted limit) but the real world speed, from a specially calibrated machine, was actually slightly higher.

Technically he was speeding, and the accuracy of the detection machine can doubtless be proven, but it does seem slightly unreasonable.

As far as I am aware the speedo inaccuracy was to ensure you don't speed in that they were always made to report faster speed than you were actually going. I've never heard of a correctly working speedo that reported less than the actual speed.
 

Tom.H

Registered User
As far as I am aware the speedo inaccuracy was to ensure you don't speed in that they were always made to report faster speed than you were actually going. I've never heard of a correctly working speedo that reported less than the actual speed.

Same here, 41mph would probably be somewhere around 46mph - 47mph.
 

Ormesome

Registered User
As far as I am aware the speedo inaccuracy was to ensure you don't speed in that they were always made to report faster speed than you were actually going. I've never heard of a correctly working speedo that reported less than the actual speed.

Yep you and @Tom.H are right. Imagine the lawsuits that each manufacturer would have to go through if they under read. It would be crazy. Hence why they ALL over read. Plus it would be impossible to control your speed accurately. Over reading although innacurate, at least allows you to stay within the law. As per my post above, 41mph on the radar could be over 45mph on his speedo, which would be silly on his part.
 

cemerson

Registered User
There's no leeway in law. If you're speeding, you're speeding. Many speed cameras are set up to provide the 10% leeway so that accuracy of the equipment involved is accounted for, but you can be done for anything over the limit.

Might be worth asking for details of when the camera was last calibrated and for that calibration information - I have heard of people challenging it in this way, either by them not being able to provide the information, or for the calibration info showing that you weren't speeding after all. If it still says you were speeding though, not a lot you can do.
 
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simonali

Guest
Yup, speedos are allowed to over read by a prescribed amount, but not under read at all. Just your tyres wearing down a few millimetres can affect the speed reading, so I would agree with others that his, or her, indicated speed would've definitely been over 40 and doing that in a zero tolerance area is playing with hurty things....
 

JG51 AUD

Registered User
At least **** Turpin wore a mask when he robbed people on the British Highways, :gun2:

Contest it is what I say, what does he have to loose!

JG
 

Daveotto

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
My 14 plate A3 with analogue speedo reads around +3mph compared to my sat nav. So going by this your friend could have been doing nearly 45mph on his speedo no

Never had car that did not oversate speed compared to an accurate GPS on a level piece of road (GPS does not measure slopes and assumes flat roads)

I would contest but reality is that his speedo was probably reading 44 or 45mph

My understanding was that manufactures set there speedos high to avoid being sued

Was also my understanding that over the last few years, since the more common introduction of digital speedos that manufactures have reduced there speedo overeading from 10% to 5%
 

musicegbdf

Registered User
New Nissan , on dual carriageway .....
 

lgooch

Well-Known Member
VCDS Map User
Due to parallax error by reading your speedo I would contest on these grounds alone. For the non-engineers out there, look at your speedo with your head moved up at 30MPH and it will look like 29 and then move your head down and it will look like 31. It really depends on how tall you are and how your seat is set. Nobody has the same line of site of the speedo and the variables exist due to height and seat position.

Find a good traffic lawyer and contest away. Who says the speedo is calibrated right in the cary anyway. Surely tyres with 8mm and 3mm on them could adjust the speed by 1 mph. Any clever bods willing to do the calculation ? This is why the tolerance of 10% that has been mentioned is in play and to be penalised for 1mph over the limit is ludicrous.
 

cemerson

Registered User
Due to parallax error by reading your speedo I would contest on these grounds alone. For the non-engineers out there, look at your speedo with your head moved up at 30MPH and it will look like 29 and then move your head down and it will look like 31. It really depends on how tall you are and how your seat is set. Nobody has the same line of site of the speedo and the variables exist due to height and seat position.

Find a good traffic lawyer and contest away. Who says the speedo is calibrated right in the cary anyway. Surely tyres with 8mm and 3mm on them could adjust the speed by 1 mph. Any clever bods willing to do the calculation ? This is why the tolerance of 10% that has been mentioned is in play and to be penalised for 1mph over the limit is ludicrous.

Don't think the parallax thing will wash. It's your responsibility to monitor your speed. They don't care how you do it. If you misread your speedo, it's irrelevant to them - you're still speeding.
 
M

MrFlibble

Guest
Contest it is what I say, what does he have to loose!

He loses the opportunity to do a speed-awareness course with zero points, or the alternative of taking the points and a reduced fine. If you contest it, you will have to go to court - this means a day off work, and at the end of it, if found guilty, you'll get a larger punishment. Also remember, that you cannot ask for information like calibration, until after you have decided to contest.

Be careful with any decision to contest. It's worth seeking advice from a forum like pepipoo.com who have much more experience in defending speeding tickets.

Arguing on a technicality, e.g. accuracy of the measurement, only works in rare cases, and could run up legal costs for the loser in court.

If this is a first offence, then simply taking the speed awareness course would probably be the best bet. As without any points on the licence, you may find that you do not get dinged when you renew your insurance (as at renewal time, any points will have to be declared).
 

Retroman

Audi A3 2010 Sportback 2.0 TDI 170 (CBBB engine)
Sounds very irregular. I've been on two "speeding courses" for 30 MPH violations and there has never been anybody on the course who was doing less than 35 MPH. I've also unofficially talked to a person from the Police who suggested there is a 10% allowance for a margin of error.
 
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Simonb1975

Guest
To be fair, if the limits 40 and you drive at 40 then you are open to getting caught out if your speed drifts. I do it all the time but none the less..
 

traindweller

Registered User
Quick search confirms most views

European member states must also grant type approval to vehicles meeting similar EU standards. The ones covering speedometers[7][8][9] are similar to the UNECE regulation in that they specify that:

  • The indicated speed must never be less than the actual speed, i.e. it should not be possible to inadvertently speed because of an incorrect speedometer reading.
  • The indicated speed must not be more than 110 percent of the true speed plus 4 km/h at specified test speeds. For example, at 80 km/h, the indicated speed must be no more than 92 km/h.
 

terminator x

Registered User
Get him to post it up here with details removed as it seems far fetched to me.

TX.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk
 

Wibbly

Registered User
Many many years ago I worked for a company that made car instruments including speedos. Even at that time they had a 10% leeway but could actually calibrate to tighter tolerances in production. At that time (before speed cameras were common - late 70s?), as I recall, they set them all to read high as the car manufacturers wanted folk to think their cars could go faster :)
 

Lord

Registered User
I don't know your mate but I'm going to say this is bull sh1t. Have you actually seen the notice? I'd guess he was caught and is claiming he was doing 41 when the notice says otherwise.
 

SteveMcB

Registered User
I don't know your mate but I'm going to say this is bull sh1t. Have you actually seen the notice? I'd guess he was caught and is claiming he was doing 41 when the notice says otherwise.

Agree with this, there's no way you'll get a ticket for 1 mph over.
If, on the off chance, I'm wrong he should plead 'not guilty'. There is no way that case will see the inside of a court, it'll go straight in the bin.
 

martin1984

Registered User
Sounds very irregular. I've been on two "speeding courses" for 30 MPH violations and there has never been anybody on the course who was doing less than 35 MPH. I've also unofficially talked to a person from the Police who suggested there is a 10% allowance for a margin of error.
Not proud of it but i have attend a speed awareness couse for 34mph in a 30mph counrty road. also i thought you could only do this once then you have to take point and fine so how have you done 2 ?
 

Retroman

Audi A3 2010 Sportback 2.0 TDI 170 (CBBB engine)
yep - you can only "enjoy" the courses every three years :sleeping::busted cop:

Bad luck getting done for 34 mph - the council must need the money in your area - presumably you have nice pothole-free roads :haha:
 

Raiden

Registered User
I remember talking to a copper years ago about speed cameras. He said depending how many people that particular month get caught speeding they send out tickets so he said for example if a camera catches 100 people the 30 fastest will get done.

So if you got by 1 mph sounds like not a lot got caught. They have some sort of quota of the amount of people they have to do each month
 
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