3inch tip tests on dane's s3 from today

[badger5]

ok... some more testing done earlier this week.. on a bog stock s3.. no map, no silicon tip, just a small jetex cone (not the large one I sell)

airflows.. low for a 210 S3... Not an overly healthy example of a car, but it was what it was.
logs of airflows on its as arrived condition (brand new maf element installed as it arrived with a dead one)

small jetex cone (too small !) std tip, then tried its old airbox on with its old dirty panel filter, then fitted the small jetex cone to it with 3inch tip..

best figures used for all the scenarios tested..

Headline figures (low for a 210 S3)
std rubber TIP small cone filter - 216.8bhp max airflow 164.61g/s
std rubber TIP OE airbox used paper filter - 218.8bhp max airflow 163.67g/s
3inch TIP small cone filter - 225.0bhp max airflow 169.03g/s

8.2bhp gains on like for like, std car from the 3inch TIP alone.

 

[coyle]

any ideas why the air flow was so poor?
and any update on the proper JR filter delivery?

 

[s3dave]

Nice, why do you think it lost the torque?

 

[coyle]

also, although flywheel bhp went up by 6.2, it went down at the wheels? is that normal?

 

[s3gazz]

im after a 3" tip got a few mods except down and cat back

would i be better getting down pipe first or wont it matter wich one i get tar

 

[Breezey]

Any comparisons with the forge tip ?

 

[R-tech_Nick]

also, although flywheel bhp went up by 6.2, it went down at the wheels? is that normal?

It all depends on the drivetrain temps, gearbox & diff oil temps, car bearing temps, tyre temps, dyno bearing temps.

Warm drivetrain = more hp at the wheels and less losses on the coast down.
Cold drivetrain = less bhp at the wheel and more coast down losses.

And in theory with back to back power runs on the same dyno with the same strapping the fly hp should always be about right "if" the dyno messures the actual coast down losses no matter what the transmision temps are.

 

[coyle]

i tryed a Revo stage one 5hour map on it, but only got 238bhp or so, because it was running rediculously lean.
but i think i found out why, the boost gauge was "T" pieced in to the Fuel Pressure Reg hose, and under the 22psi of the map it had blown the hose off the T piece.
meaning the FPR couldn't detect boost so it wasn't adjusting the fueling.. i drove it for an hour without the hose connected as i was on the motorway, i then popped the hose back on the T piece when i pulled off the motorway.
And when i did, it completely transformed the car! it felt so much more powerfull, so im pretty certain that it had corrected my fueling issue.

Unfortunately i couldnt get it back on the rollers to prove it

 

[S3 Nattie]

Nice to see a standard S3 with a 3" tip although not running its best, still improvements shows.

I think the reason why the 3" tip seems to have less torque is due to the bigger volume. Seems to come in later and not as much but much more sustained throughout the higher rev range. The torque curve is a lot better than the usual spike and drop you usually see.

 

[coyle]

yeh, agree with that, although the car had a low airflow, it seemed to run a lot smoother when fitted with the 3"

 

[S3 Nattie]

Its weird that the airflow is considered to be low even though it equate to 216 bhp using the .8 rule. Saying that my 210 AMK flowed to 190g/s last time I logged and im on a standard map

 

[badger5]

Any comparisons with the forge tip ?

yes... Danes test was silicon TIp to 3inch TIp, on stage 1

 

[badger5]

Nice, why do you think it lost the torque?

I dont know why... but they all loose a little torque but sustain it higher into the revs which is where the extra power comes from, and comments like it seems smoother etc.. less spikey is what I have seen from ones here dyno'd and logged, and others on SCN who are reporting same results independantly

 

[badger5]

also, although flywheel bhp went up by 6.2, it went down at the wheels? is that normal?

this is why a dyno which has coastdown is imho better than one which just measures atw figures.. Because the more runs you do, the different tyre temps, gbox oil temps/viscosity, the different tyre "stickyness" etc all of which will effect the atw figure, BUT coast down captures this so @fly figures are as consistent as you will get them on a chassis dyno.

normal..

 

[badger5]

any ideas why the air flow was so poor?
and any update on the proper JR filter delivery?

filters due to arrive with me monday. spoke with jetex yesterday chasing. Big delivery coming. they are going to be out of stock again such was my order on them. JR's from badger5 for a while.

 

[badger5]

im after a 3" tip got a few mods except down and cat back

would i be better getting down pipe first or wont it matter wich one i get tar

it wont matter which you choose to do first.
combined with a remap you will have some great power gains like Dane's did on a very std spec car.. more mods, more gains potentially.

 

[badger5]

Its weird that the airflow is considered to be low even though it equate to 216 bhp using the .8 rule. Saying that my 210 AMK flowed to 190g/s last time I logged and im on a standard map

I know its weird is'nt it.. 180-190g/s is more what I have typically seen from a 210/225 car when std
this was a low reading but power was very respectable for std... where std 210's here have typically been 209-212bhp range..

 

[coyle]

I know its weird is'nt it.. 180-190g/s is more what I have typically seen from a 210/225 car when std
this was a low reading but power was very respectable for std... where std 210's here have typically been 209-212bhp range..

And this made 218.8bhp with standard air box and dirty filter,
Would have been interesting to test it with a proper Jetex filter rather than the small one

 

[badger5]

aye, had jetex delivered when they 1st said that would have been possible..
bin that little thing tho.. it aint helping on jot

 

[R-Tech-Nick]

Between the Badger5 dyno and our Bosch dyno there is only 2wheel hp variation, as for the torque our roller seems to always read much less torque than others.

 

[badger5]

Between the Badger5 dyno and our Bosch dyno there is only 2wheel hp variation, as for the torque our roller seems to always read much less torque than others.

What make/model are your rollers nick. and software etc?
Seems my Dastek is pretty much unsupported technically, and some of the control board components are obsolete, which makes me nervous. my roller set is sun ram 12, with Dastek controller on. pm/email if you can mate - thanks

 

[Broken Byzan]

I think you are going to have to fabricate one for mine Bill, can't be that much different can it?

 

[coyle]

danes max power before fitting the 3" tip was at quite a low rpm (5963) whats the reason for this being so low? or is it just one of those things?

 

[<tuffty/>]

danes max power before fitting the 3" tip was at quite a low rpm (5963) whats the reason for this being so low? or is it just one of those things?

Yeah... the standard TIP restricts flow higher up the rev range and so peak power is earlier... 3" TIP removes this restriction allowing higher flow at higher rpm not only increasing final power but allowing it to be made higher up the rev range... if you look at the graphs you can see this....

<tuffty/>

 

[coyle]

Yeah... the standard TIP restricts flow higher up the rev range and so peak power is earlier... 3" TIP removes this restriction allowing higher flow at higher rpm not only increasing final power but allowing it to be made higher up the rev range... if you look at the graphs you can see this....

<tuffty/>

but if you look at the next set of graphs, from my car,
the peak on standard tip is up at near 6500rpm?

but yeh, i understand the logic behind the result

 

[<tuffty/>]

You can't compare your graph with Danes... your car is std whereas Danes was running a stage 1 map... his car made your peak power at a little over 4250 rpm...

The logic is irrelevant in this case as they are different levels of tune

<tuffty/>

 

[Inertiauk]

hot air is worse than colder dense air for sure.. cold air feed all good to have...
will you notice it over a decent fmic setup tho? unlikely.
gains outweigh losses, but add a heatshield and you have best of both worlds. uber high flow airfilter and decent cold air feed and heatshield.. oh, and the high flow tip for good measure

I'm After buying a TIP and filter from you this week. I have a huge to-do list for my car, and your TIP just moved from near the bottom of it, to the next item after reading this thread. ( I Will be on the phone to you in the next couple of days)
I was wondering about the heat shield situation, could you supply or recommend one ?
Or would tuftybloke's JR in airbox mod be enough ?
I was considering a Neuspeed P-Flow Kit to pair up with your TIP but they are a bit expensive @ £162.
I just have this possibly unjustified hate of seeing a cone filter sat in an engine bay just hanging there in the open sucking in all the hot air., this is why I put a K&N Element in my air box rather than getting a cone filter.

 

[Dane]

Mine performed just fine with the TIP and a jetex.

It gets hot under there no matter what, so you could get the above sort out a cold air feed and maybe get a phenolic gasket from Bill.

 

[badger5]

I'm After buying a TIP and filter from you this week. I have a huge to-do list for my car, and your TIP just moved from near the bottom of it, to the next item after reading this thread. ( I Will be on the phone to you in the next couple of days)
I was wondering about the heat shield situation, could you supply or recommend one ?
Or would tuftybloke's JR in airbox mod be enough ?
I was considering a Neuspeed P-Flow Kit to pair up with your TIP but they are a bit expensive @ £162.
I just have this possibly unjustified hate of seeing a cone filter sat in an engine bay just hanging there in the open sucking in all the hot air., this is why I put a K&N Element in my air box rather than getting a cone filter.

I dont (yet) have a heatshield, but will do at some point.
Jabba sell them.. and some peeps use theirs