DogBone Mount, MSS Kits Suspension and MagRide Information

DJAlix

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Thought to post about some recent mods I have completed, and my experiences testing them.

*There is some very interesting MagRide related information towards the end of this post which will demonstrate exactly why you need to have a MagRide vehicle calibrated / re-calibrated after your stock or indeed lowered vehicle suspension has "settled".

IMG 0660 copy

While down at QSTuning, and with my car up in the air, I thought it would be rude not to throw an aftermarket mount in there. Why? While in convoy from Audis in the Park 10 back to London, and while trying to keep up with the 400bhp vehicles that were surrounding me, I could really feel the "slop" and movement in the stock Dogbone mount when changing gears, no matter the drive mode.

Powerflex Dogbone mount:

IMG 0908 IMG 0904 IMG 0895

Pretty simple to install, even after the engine moved when removing the stock mount, and loved the way this thing sorted out 70% of all the "slop" when engaged in spirited driving however... when in I was in "daily driver" mode the added vibrations and noise was not for me, especially on a cold start! Swapped out for a Yellow version of the mount and while the "slop" control is not as good as with the purple mount, the compromise between control and noise is pretty much spot on for me, pretty much a 50/50 balance. The car feels way better than it did with the stock mount and thats all that matters in the end :)

IMG 0909

Both of the above mounts were the standard versions which only fill the existing "voids". I am thinking about testing a yellow Hybrid mount which both fills the voids and replaces the lower of the two stock bushes but not for a while as it would require subframe removal for correct installation. This mod is only £25 to £30 so well worth checking out.

MSS Kits Track Lowering Springs - Fully Adjustable Kit:

The main reason for this post and my trip over to QSTuning was to have these fitted. Have always hated the stock Audi MagRide suspension springs and wanted to change them out as soon as I could / had the time to do so.

So why "Track"? Long story short, they were sent to me so it would be rude not to have them installed. Given that I calibrate loads of these every month I had a basic idea of what to expect, or so I thought...

All the MSS vehicles I have every calibrated has been either S3's or RS3's, so the pending calibration on an A3 was gonna be a first for me and in fact I have never experienced MSS in a non S / RS car up until now.

IMG 0659

The rear springs went on with no issues at all. Once on these can be adjusted "in place" without much fuss either via the included spanner / adjusting tool or by hand as I found out while messing about.

IMG 0654

How did the front springs install then? lol

IMG 0664 copy

As you can see from the image above the MSS Kits Track front springs are crazy short when compared to the stock spring on the right! I was advised to install all the springs at their lowest points and then make adjustments from there however while this works for the rear if the fronts were set to their lowest point, with no weight / compression on them, the springs would just flop around on the damper as they are not long enough to "locate" in the cups. Extending / raising them up until they located solved this issue, which would have been an MOT failure (or worse a potential accident) as if the damper was to ever be fully extended the spring would have been flopping around all over the place, however as you may have already guessed the "drop" that could be achieved because of this adjustment was massively compromised!

So what drop did I get once all was safely installed? I could have gone further in the rear as the springs were suited for the application however this would have upset the balance of the vehicle, and as such the MSS Track Springs achieved a 10mm drop all around. Now "stance" was not what I was going for here, it was all about improving the ride so a 10mm drop was just a bonus in my mind, besides these were new springs and they would need at least 500miles in order to settle and get a little lower.

Whats the ride like then? lol.. well... here is where it gets interesting...

QSTuning is located in a very different part of the world to where I live in north London, land of the great British speed bump, however the roads around Haywards Heath are not perfect and when taken for a test drive all seemed pretty good, "floaty" but no issues while pottering around trying to avoid the potholes. While homeward bound on the motorway again the vehicle was "floaty" but again everything seemed to be as expected. Drive Select Mode was never out of comfort. Once I got back to London however.... bang, scrape, bang, scrape! I don't think there is a speed bump in Muswell Hill that does not have a scrape on it from the underside of my car! Why? In order to get around the "dislocation" issue of the front springs we needed to extend the springs so they would "seat". This placed way less than the expected "compression" on the springs and as such they became "soft". Speed bumps which I used to be able to drive over at 20mph with no issues were now a problem at 10mph. The vehicle was bouncing around all over the place! A MagRide calibration made the situation better, 13mph, but the vehicle was basically unusable within London as it was.

Now the ride was actually pretty good after a few days while on Motorways and A roads however something needed to be done. After speaking with MSS a set of "Street" springs, fronts only, were sent out.

Some Notes thus far:

Original Ride hight of the vehicle was (approx):

Vehicle is a 2017 Audi A3 8V 2.0TFSI Quattro S-Tronic MagRide Saloon with 19" Revo RV019 wheels with MPS4S 245/35/19 rubber.
  • 375mm front Axel (approx)
  • 370mm rear Axel (approx)
Measurements taken from centre of wheel centre cap to the bottom edge of the wheel arch as follows:

IMG 0642 2

Original / Before Photos, front and rear:

IMG 0629 IMG 0642

So...

IMG 0913

VAG Car Coding is now a MSS Kits partner :) More information to follow...

The spring to the right is a Front MSS Kits Track and the left spring is a Front MSS Kits Street (development "A3").

As you can see from the above photo the Street is a taller spring than the Track, which after speaking with MSS was never actually designed to be used on the Road with anything other than an RS3. The weight of the Engine would compress the spring more, creating more of a drop due to the compression, and the spring is designed to only function as intended while under load. Come MOT time one would need to extend the spring or replace it for the test due to the dislocation "design" but a heavily compressed "track" spring would work on normal roads.

A revisit to QSTuning saw the guys install the replacement front springs while set to their lowest points. The existing rears were then adjusted in order to balance the vehicle, at first both heights were evenly set in anticipation of the front spring settlement and after the initial 500miles I have now raised the rears by 2mm and the fronts dropped 3mm. MSS Kits suggest that the rear be 5mm higher in order to maintain balance of the vehicle.

The Results:
  • Front overall drop from stock hight = 35mm
  • Rear overall drop from stock hight = 25mm
Photos of Front and Rear:

IMG 1110 IMG 1111

These are the results now that everything has completed the first stage of settlement. It is expected that both front and rear may settle further by another 5mm. If this happens then I will be raising them back up as stance is not my goal here.

Once the new front springs were on the vehicle was switched to Individual Mode with the suspension set to Comfort, and this remained so for the next 500 miles. NO recalibration took place as I wanted to test the effects of a badly or incorrectly calibrated system.

Some numbers:

The vehicle came out of the factory with a calibration somewhere around 375 at the front and 370 in the rear. I say "somewhere" because I recalibrated the vehicle, without making notes, in order to remove the MagRides rear double bounce feature :) These were the figures I rounded to. After the first round of suspension fitting the system was calibrated to 365 in the front and 360 in the rear. This was made in order to improve the speed bump situation, which it did. Once round two of the suspension installation was complete, the front street springs, the calibration was left at 365/360 for testing, and this is what I found:

Test conditions:
  • straight road
  • Dry
  • 15mph (cruise control set)
  • Same speed bump used every test
  • Fuel Tank at 46%
  • Boot empty other than factory supplied tools etc
  • Driver only person in the vehicle
The actual ride hight of the vehicle is now 340 in the front and 345 in the rear.

With the vehicle calibrated as 365 in the front and 360 in the rear, on hitting / mounting the speed bump the front spring was initially compressed to 314mm. In response to this compression the MagRide controller, based on the 15mph speed, steering angle and Yaw, supplied the front dampers with 613ma of electricity in order to keep the vehicle flat. Result of test? The front underside of the vehicle scraped a little and "pogoed" 3 times.

With the vehicle calibrated correctly at 340 in the front and 345 in the rear, the same test compressed the spring, initially, again to 322mm. The MagRide controller supplied the front dampers with 1592ma of electricity in order to keep the vehicle flat. Result of test? The front underside did not scrap and there was NO "pogo"!

Now the difference between the uncalibrated and correctly calibrated numbers is actually pretty huge numbers wise, but this is not far off what someone might achieve if they had H&R or Racing Line springs installed. In my experience a calibration difference of just 2 to 3mm is actually enough to throw the ride quality out.

What does this data mean in the real world? Using my test example from above, the uncalibrated system was supplying 2.6 times LESS, or to put it another way 260% LESS electricity than was actually needed in order to correctly control the vehicles dampers while mounting the test speed bump.

Your MagRide vehicle been driven more than 1000miles? Been lowered? Lost the different feeling between Comfort, Dynamic, Auto drive select modes? You need a recalibration in order to bring everything back in to line!

IMG 1109
 
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Good read. As I posted in an update the other day, I have the street kit on my non mag ride car and love it. Yet to lower it anymore than what it came out of the garage on the day but reckon I will do it shortly.
 
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Interesting read. Should my dealer be able to Re calibrate the suspension?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Interesting read. Should my dealer be able to Re calibrate the suspension?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Dealers should be able to and do perform recalibration, but most charge an arm and a leg for the works.
 
Thought to post about some recent mods I have completed, and my experiences testing them.

*There is some very interesting MagRide related information towards the end of this post which will demonstrate exactly why you need to have a MagRide vehicle calibrated / re-calibrated after your stock or indeed lowered vehicle suspension has "settled".


While down at QSTuning, and with my car up in the air, I thought it would be rude not to throw an aftermarket mount in there. Why? While in convoy from Audis in the Park 10 back to London, and while trying to keep up with the 400bhp vehicles that were surrounding me, I could really feel the "slop" and movement in the stock Dogbone mount when changing gears, no matter the drive mode.

Powerflex Dogbone mount:


Pretty simple to install, even after the engine moved when removing the stock mount, and loved the way this thing sorted out 70% of all the "slop" when engaged in spirited driving however... when in I was in "daily driver" mode the added vibrations and noise was not for me, especially on a cold start! Swapped out for a Yellow version of the mount and while the "slop" control is not as good as with the purple mount, the compromise between control and noise is pretty much spot on for me, pretty much a 50/50 balance. The car feels way better than it did with the stock mount and thats all that matters in the end :)


Both of the above mounts were the standard versions which only fill the existing "voids". I am thinking about testing a yellow Hybrid mount which both fills the voids and replaces the lower of the two stock bushes but not for a while as it would require subframe removal for correct installation. This mod is only £25 to £30 so well worth checking out.

MSS Kits Track Lowering Springs - Fully Adjustable Kit:

The main reason for this post and my trip over to QSTuning was to have these fitted. Have always hated the stock Audi MagRide suspension springs and wanted to change them out as soon as I could / had the time to do so.

So why "Track"? Long story short, they were sent to me so it would be rude not to have them installed. Given that I calibrate loads of these every month I had a basic idea of what to expect, or so I thought...

All the MSS vehicles I have every calibrated has been either S3's or RS3's, so the pending calibration on an A3 was gonna be a first for me and in fact I have never experienced MSS in a non S / RS car up until now.


The rear springs went on with no issues at all. Once on these can be adjusted "in place" without much fuss either via the included spanner / adjusting tool or by hand as I found out while messing about.


How did the front springs install then? lol


As you can see from the image above the MSS Kits Track front springs are crazy short when compared to the stock spring on the right! I was advised to install all the springs at their lowest points and then make adjustments from there however while this works for the rear if the fronts were set to their lowest point, with no weight / compression on them, the springs would just flop around on the damper as they are not long enough to "locate" in the cups. Extending / raising them up until they located solved this issue, which would have been an MOT failure (or worse a potential accident) as if the damper was to ever be fully extended the spring would have been flopping around all over the place, however as you may have already guessed the "drop" that could be achieved because of this adjustment was massively compromised!

So what drop did I get once all was safely installed? I could have gone further in the rear as the springs were suited for the application however this would have upset the balance of the vehicle, and as such the MSS Track Springs achieved a 10mm drop all around. Now "stance" was not what I was going for here, it was all about improving the ride so a 10mm drop was just a bonus in my mind, besides these were new springs and they would need at least 500miles in order to settle and get a little lower.

Whats the ride like then? lol.. well... here is where it gets interesting...

QSTuning is located in a very different part of the world to where I live in north London, land of the great British speed bump, however the roads around Haywards Heath are not perfect and when taken for a test drive all seemed pretty good, "floaty" but no issues while pottering around trying to avoid the potholes. While homeward bound on the motorway again the vehicle was "floaty" but again everything seemed to be as expected. Drive Select Mode was never out of comfort. Once I got back to London however.... bang, scrape, bang, scrape! I don't think there is a speed bump in Muswell Hill that does not have a scrape on it from the underside of my car! Why? In order to get around the "dislocation" issue of the front springs we needed to extend the springs so they would "seat". This placed way less than the expected "compression" on the springs and as such they became "soft". Speed bumps which I used to be able to drive over at 20mph with no issues were now a problem at 10mph. The vehicle was bouncing around all over the place! A MagRide calibration made the situation better, 13mph, but the vehicle was basically unusable within London as it was.

Now the ride was actually pretty good after a few days while on Motorways and A roads however something needed to be done. After speaking with MSS a set of "Street" springs, fronts only, were sent out.

Some Notes thus far:

Original Ride hight of the vehicle was (approx):

Vehicle is a 2017 Audi A3 8V 2.0TFSI Quattro S-Tronic MagRide Saloon with 19" Revo RV019 wheels with MPS4S 245/35/19 rubber.
  • 375mm front Axel (approx)
  • 370mm rear Axel (approx)
Measurements taken from centre of wheel centre cap to the bottom edge of the wheel arch as follows:


Original / Before Photos, front and rear:


So...


VAG Car Coding is now a MSS Kits partner :) More information to follow...

The spring to the right is a Front MSS Kits Track and the left spring is a Front MSS Kits Street (development "A3").

As you can see from the above photo the Street is a taller spring than the Track, which after speaking with MSS was never actually designed to be used on the Road with anything other than an RS3. The weight of the Engine would compress the spring more, creating more of a drop due to the compression, and the spring is designed to only function as intended while under load. Come MOT time one would need to extend the spring or replace it for the test due to the dislocation "design" but a heavily compressed "track" spring would work on normal roads.

A revisit to QSTuning saw the guys install the replacement front springs while set to their lowest points. The existing rears were then adjusted in order to balance the vehicle, at first both heights were evenly set in anticipation of the front spring settlement and after the initial 500miles I have now raised the rears by 2mm and the fronts dropped 3mm. MSS Kits suggest that the rear be 5mm higher in order to maintain balance of the vehicle.

The Results:
  • Front overall drop from stock hight = 35mm
  • Rear overall drop from stock hight = 25mm
Photos of Front and Rear:


These are the results now that everything has completed the first stage of settlement. It is expected that both front and rear may settle further by another 5mm. If this happens then I will be raising them back up as stance is not my goal here.

Once the new front springs were on the vehicle was switched to Individual Mode with the suspension set to Comfort, and this remained so for the next 500 miles. NO recalibration took place as I wanted to test the effects of a badly or incorrectly calibrated system.

Some numbers:

The vehicle came out of the factory with a calibration somewhere around 375 at the front and 370 in the rear. I say "somewhere" because I recalibrated the vehicle, without making notes, in order to remove the MagRides rear double bounce feature :) These were the figures I rounded to. After the first round of suspension fitting the system was calibrated to 365 in the front and 360 in the rear. This was made in order to improve the speed bump situation, which it did. Once round two of the suspension installation was complete, the front street springs, the calibration was left at 365/360 for testing, and this is what I found:

Test conditions:
  • straight road
  • Dry
  • 15mph (cruise control set)
  • Same speed bump used every test
  • Fuel Tank at 46%
  • Boot empty other than factory supplied tools etc
  • Driver only person in the vehicle
The actual ride hight of the vehicle is now 340 in the front and 345 in the rear.

With the vehicle calibrated as 365 in the front and 360 in the rear, on hitting / mounting the speed bump the front spring was initially compressed to 314mm. In response to this compression the MagRide controller, based on the 15mph speed, steering angle and Yaw, supplied the front dampers with 613ma of electricity in order to keep the vehicle flat. Result of test? The front underside of the vehicle scraped a little and "pogoed" 3 times.

With the vehicle calibrated correctly at 340 in the front and 345 in the rear, the same test compressed the spring, initially, again to 314mm. The MagRide controller supplied the front dampers with 1592ma of electricity in order to keep the vehicle flat. Result of test? The front underside did not scrap and there was NO "pogo"!

Now the difference between the uncalibrated and correctly calibrated numbers is actually pretty huge numbers wise, but this is not far off what someone might achieve if they had H&R or Racing Line springs installed. In my experience a calibration difference of just 2 to 3mm is actually enough to throw the ride quality out.

What does this data mean in the real world? Using my test example from above, the uncalibrated system was supplying 2.6 times LESS, or to put it another way 260% LESS electricity than was actually needed in order to correctly control the vehicles dampers while mounting the test speed bump.

Your MagRide vehicle been driven more than 1000miles? Been lowered? Lost the different feeling between Comfort, Dynamic, Auto drive select modes? You need a recalibration in order to bring everything back in to line!


Great informative post
 
Dealers should be able to and do perform recalibration, but most charge an arm and a leg for the works.

Well my local dealer said not something they can do. It just goes to highlight how little the dealers actually know or are capable of with modern cars. All they can do is basic maintenance even then I have had issues.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Well my local dealer said not something they can do. It just goes to highlight how little the dealers actually know or are capable of with modern cars. All they can do is basic maintenance even then I have had issues.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
they generally have NO IDEA. Computer says no mentality.
 
I'm a bit of a "noob" when it comes to suspension springs, so excuse my ignorance, but what does changing the stock springs do? As my S3 already seems quite low in regards to the gap between the tyre and the wheel arch.
 
Got a local independent who can do it this week so will be going there


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The computer says no cause the criteria not fulfilled. If you told the dealer you had a major crash and replaced half the suspension components along with headlights and stuff then it will click and make up a job sheet for the works required.
 
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I'm a bit of a "noob" when it comes to suspension springs, so excuse my ignorance, but what does changing the stock springs do? As my S3 already seems quite low in regards to the gap between the tyre and the wheel arch.
In short there are two main reasons as to why you might want to change your springs, to lower your ride hight and / or to improve your ride quality, with most people looking for the latter as the stock Audi springs are not great :(
 
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Hey Alix, did you manage to suss out how to code out the mag ride completely? Not sure if you remember but we went from mag ride to coilovers hence get the error on the dash as the new shocks dont have the connector
 
Hey Alix, did you manage to suss out how to code out the mag ride completely? Not sure if you remember but we went from mag ride to coilovers hence get the error on the dash as the new shocks dont have the connector
Not a project thats been fully completed as yet however in theory I now know whats needed.
 
Alix, That’s a very good write up.
I don’t have MagRide but looking at lowering or changing to coil overs. I just find the standard shock spring combo is not great when pushing on with tendency to understeer rather than oversteer.
Just not sure footed enough especially on slightly rough roads.
I think partly the tyres might be to blame.
Let us know how you get on in the longer term when all is settled.
 
Not a project thats been fully completed as yet however in theory I now know whats needed.

If you need a vehicle, we can bring ours down? Can do the sat nav coding at the same time...?
 
If you need a vehicle, we can bring ours down? Can do the sat nav coding at the same time...?
The main issue is I would need the vehicle for a number of days. Deleting MagRide is not a "coding" only process.
 
The main issue is I would need the vehicle for a number of days. Deleting MagRide is not a "coding" only process.

Could it be done over a weekend? Its no issue leaving the car on a friday evening and picking up on a sunday for example?
 
In short there are two main reasons as to why you might want to change your springs, to lower your ride hight and / or to improve your ride quality, with most people looking for the latter as the stock Audi springs are not great :(
Ohhh I see, thanks for the response. Will look into it.
 
Sorry to dig this out but do you think that kind of dogbone mount could help my wheel hop?

I am getting horrible rattling especially when road is wet if I accelerate too hard. My car is still an original A3 8V FL 2.0 190ps , Manual and FWD. the only thing I have on is a pedal box which I must say causes the issue as I don’t get it if I disable it.
I get why the pedal box makes it worse but this problem made me put my plans to buy a MTM box on hold because of that. What’s the point of having more bhp and torque if the car can’t keep up with it already.
 
Sorry to dig this out but do you think that kind of dogbone mount could help my wheel hop?

I am getting horrible rattling especially when road is wet if I accelerate too hard. My car is still an original A3 8V FL 2.0 190ps , Manual and FWD. the only thing I have on is a pedal box which I must say causes the issue as I don’t get it if I disable it.
I get why the pedal box makes it worse but this problem made me put my plans to buy a MTM box on hold because of that. What’s the point of having more bhp and torque if the car can’t keep up with it already.
It should help as that's one of the things they are designed to help control :) I have the same vehicle as you, all be it with S-Tronic, and have had zero issues before and after mods so might be something else going on with your vehicle.
 
Is yours also fwd? I thought you had a Quattro.
I thought getting wheel hop on slippery road from a powerful fwd was kind of normal.
I am also wondering about my tyres which although they are in seemingly good conditions they might not be that grippy.
I still don’t get how you could get wheel hop when you have traction control on but that’s me not knowing enough I guess.
 
Is yours also fwd? I thought you had a Quattro.
I thought getting wheel hop on slippery road from a powerful fwd was kind of normal.
I am also wondering about my tyres which although they are in seemingly good conditions they might not be that grippy.
I still don’t get how you could get wheel hop when you have traction control on but that’s me not knowing enough I guess.
FWD in the car world normally means Four Wheel Drive. Yes I have a Quattro. If you mean you have a 2 wheel drive Audi (front) then a dog bone mount is not gonna do a great deal for you other than tidy up some of the movement in your gearbox I believe.
 
FWD in the car world normally means Four Wheel Drive. Yes I have a Quattro. If you mean you have a 2 wheel drive Audi (front) then a dog bone mount is not gonna do a great deal for you other than tidy up some of the movement in your gearbox I believe.

Sorry yeah I meant Front Wheel Drive.
Ok thanks for that.
I’ll keep looking then but I feel like this is what it is, which sucks really.
 
Sorry yeah I meant Front Wheel Drive.
Ok thanks for that.
I’ll keep looking then but I feel like this is what it is, which sucks really.
Front wheel grip will be based on your tires and suspension setup at the most basic.