300HP without FMIC

[IanMW]

Anybody know if you can get to 300HP without a FMIC on a 225 BAM?

ECUxPlot is saying I'm at 290HP, tried a few map adjustments but seemed to have stalled at 290HP.

Existing Mods;

- Complete 3" exhaust
- Decat
- F23 turbo
- Stainless exhaust manifold
- Musroom air filter
- Badger5 TIP

The head has been refurbished, new water pump timing belt etc, compression is good on all cylinders.
I have 440cc injectors, up-rated fuel pump & new fuel filter but haven't installed these yet as the fuelling is holding up.
Running Shell V-Power (99)

Thanks

 

[Tomsy]

What’s the robot called in futurama?

 

[<tuffty/>]

I very much doubt you are making 290hp but in answer to your question...

...arguably you can potentially make <insert horsepower here> with no FMIC, but you would only do it once, on a cold run... as even on a stage 1 level of boost (1.2bar) the IAT's will sky rocket and once IAT's go over 35degrees the ECU will pull ignition timing which drops torque and as a result horsepower

<tuffty/>

 

[Tj 0785]

What’s the robot called in futurama?

Haha

 

[<tuffty/>]

Actually just re-read your spec... didn't notice the reference to the Franken Turbo hybrid there so 290hp is plausible..

However... as I said before, you maybe able to hit 300hp on SMIC's but you will most likely only do it once before the ECU pulls timing from high IAT's...

Log the IAT's in VCDS... see where they are on a run...

<tuffty/>

 

[IanMW]

Cheers,

The IAT peaks at 36C, but some knock is pulling the timing a little any way, (tried reducing the AFR but it made the knock come on lower down the rev range?). see screen shot

I'm running out of levers to pull, planning on making a single test run with no air filter to see what happens and tweaking the mapping some more at the moment I'm asking it to get to loads that it's never going to get to, so I think the restriction is mechanical rather than map.

The original target was to get to 300lb\ft and 300HP (on the rod bending limit so I've been told), according to the ECUxPlot I'm nearly there. Going to see how close I can get to the target on ECUxPlot without a FMIC and then put it on the dream crusher dyno at Surrey Rolling Road and see what happens (going to wait until the weather cools down, might help a little). Then may be a FMIC.

PS
Can files other than pictures be uploaded to this forum as I can't see an option of upload file?

Thaaks

 

[<tuffty/>]

Rods bend at whatever torque they want these days... really depends on how you bring it in... loading it up suddenly at low revs with high boost/timing will increase the cylinder pressures massively over using that boost at higher rpm once the turbo has spooled..

What timing you running? 36deg is quite low considering for SMIC's... what boost also?

You running meth?

You can upload zip, txt and pdf files along with the usual image file formats...

<tuffty/>

 

[IanMW]

Timing factory, no meth.

Think I'm probably risking it with the engine loads in the map at the moment but mechanically it's not getting there or likely to, once the mechanicals have topped out I'll trim back the map loads to keep it tidy.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Just upload logs dude... don't post map files please...

Ta

<tuffty/>

 

[IanMW]

Ok no problem, out of interest why not post maps?

 

[<tuffty/>]

Ok no problem, out of interest why not post maps?

Legally a grey area and ASN can't be seen to be sharing map files

<tuffty/>

 

[IanMW]

Cheers.

 

[sonique]

Ok no problem, out of interest why not post maps?

this log not see any 290hp
only ~265hp and you are run out the injector
440 injector ? maybe opel 156280 ?
because only 410
original 386cc not really big change 410 or 440cc

 

[IanMW]

Made some adjustments (Map & Wastegate), going to get it dyno'd on Saturday 21st (hoping to see 280HP) then as time allows bigger injectors, fuel pump & FMIC should get to the target 300hp.

 

[IanMW]

Disappointing dyno results, but not all bad news.

Headline figure 255.8HP

So after booking dyno for Saturday 21st, the car then develops an exhaust blow (exhaust manifold to turbo) during the week (it was probably there for a bit longer but I hadn’t noticed).

So not having time to fix it, it went to the dyno anyway, by this time the blow was pretty bad, you could hear the tractor sound (although it quietened down when it got up to temp) and smell the fumes in the cabin.

The car went on the dyno and I logged the run with ME7logger as well as the actual dyno logging. Here’s where the better news comes, in after comparing the previous G\S logs with the dyno run you can see the dyno run is about 5% down.

So extrapolating this out 255.8 X 1.05 = 268.5

So when I was pessimistically looking at 260 and optimistically looking at 280, 268.5 is not a bad result.

It also looks like dividing the G\S by 0.8 is slightly off but a good indicator of HP, all manner of things are going to influence it.

Next steps;

· Mend exhaust blow

· Fit the bigger injectors & fuel pump

· Purchase & install a FMIC

· Update map

· Re-dyno

Might get it done before Christmas, but have a fair amount of DIY to do first to keep Her-Indoors happy.

 

[desertstorm]

Just out of interest what I presumed you logged the IAT what kind of values were you seeing there?.

 

[IanMW]

IAT higher, bonnet was closed. EGT lower.

 

[sonique]

300hp stock dual ic not problem
my car test hybrid k04 stock ic and stock manifold
read maf 247g/sec low boost 1.2-1.3
you are i dont no why try this injector over 270hp
buy 495 550 or 700, 880
this injector very good price
and make leak test
need good spark plug and 76 downpipe 70 exhaust
need chek intake not colapse etc....

 

[IanMW]

I've got 440CC injectors to put in and uprated fuel pump also already got 3" (76mm) DeCAT exhaust and badger 5 TIP.

Just taking time to line all the ducks up.

 

[<tuffty/>]

300hp stock dual ic not problem

You say this but I can tell you it really is a problem... it will generate much higher intake temps than a properly sorted setup and while it 'works' it doesn't make it right...

Standard ECU intervention starts at 35 degrees IAT and will start pulling timing... this 'can' be 'tuned' of course but you are running the risk of det and subsequent engine damage...

You can tune around it a bit by controlling boost onset as bringing it in too aggressively will bang EGTs and IATs right up on the 20v... rolling boost in will mitigate this to a degree (no pun intended) but its still only masking an issue rather than fixing it...

The std side mounts heat soak real bad too and take an age to recover, this will mean you generally get one good cold run of power but subsequent runs will pull power back to protect the engine...

<tuffty/>

 

[badger5]

300hp stock dual ic not problem
my car test hybrid k04 stock ic and stock manifold
read maf 247g/sec low boost 1.2-1.3
you are i dont no why try this injector over 270hp
buy 495 550 or 700, 880
this injector very good price
and make leak test
need good spark plug and 76 downpipe 70 exhaust
need chek intake not colapse etc....

300bhp, std smic............... not a problem....?
lol

hot hot hot, ****** ****** ****** (ign)

 

[sonique]

Hot ??? Stock smic possible make 300hp yess iat higher but 180hp auq only 1 sidecooler this very high and very bad cooler

I did not say that optimal Side cooler 300hp
just not problem make this Hp

i make log my car but last time see colormfa not any problem

many many car runing iat over 35
over 50-70 problem

 

[badger5]

Hot ??? Stock smic possible make 300hp yess iat higher but 180hp auq only 1 sidecooler this very high and very bad cooler

I did not say that optimal Side cooler 300hp
just not problem make this Hp

i make log my car but last time see colormfa not any problem

many many car runing iat over 35
over 50-70 problem

off boost no load, no high aits
pointless comparison

comparing 180 auq means what exactly, one smic is poor.... what a shocker!
what is the problem with accepting decent large fmic is better?