3.0 TDI Manual quattro - Maximum engine performance capablity

[jabba]

Afternoon All

just been trolling though google for the last few days looking to see what is out there regards to how far you can take the 3.0 tdi specifically the 204 variant.

from what i have found there is not much further than a generic stage 1 remap etc, uprated exhausts, panel filters, water meth.

my question really is has any one got there 3.0 tdi past the 300BHP mark ??? or even the 400bhp??

would be interested in your thoughts /
experiences

 

[adamss24]

300 Bhp is just a remap away, larger nozzles, de-cat/dpf delete, hybrid turbo and uprated clutch will see it past 350 Bhp. The limiting factor at the moment are the nozzles and turbo, they are the biggest small frame VNT turbochargers available so unless you go hybrid there is not much to do...
You can also go with a wastegated turbo, hx35 or a garrett gt30 ball bearing and external wastegate but boost response will be different to your vnt turbo...

 

[jabba]

OK thats very interesting, hmm I'll have a look further then when you spend as you remap more specifically custom maps than generic, best start saving and set an account up at dark side then. Did wonder that the clutch would be a weak point.

 

[jabba]

Was at a drag event to day, my cars been revo'd stage 1 and panel filter, was getting 14.99s for a 1/4 mile which wasn't the fastest or the slowest. Going up against an s6 and rs4 was fun, s6 wasn't that much faster 0.3s but the rs4 left me for dust

Just really looking to get more poooowwwwerrr never enough and torque fun

 

[desertstorm]

I wouldn't bother with Darkside, there are better cheaper places to get the car sorted.
My 1.9 Passat estate with a BV43 used to do 15 second quarter miles with a best of 14.95 at 93mph and that was only running around 210bhp and it was FWD.If you are anywhere near Stockport I can recommend Rick at Unicorn Motor developments who mapped my Audi.
A clutch will be very necessary and unfortunately expensive, Go too big on the turbo and it will be hopeless as a daily. Fortunately on the B8 the standard clutch is good for over 800Nm nearly 600Lb/ft , With a standard 2260 turbo, bigger intercooler, some exhaust mods and a map my B8 is running about 315-320 bhp and does the quarter in 13.3 s at 105mph. If shows what a diesel car can do when fettled with the right bits.
If I fitted a hybrid to mine it would be quicker, probably very high 12's but as a daily not as good.
Have a look at my build thread

Karl

 

[V6 Quatt]

Nice explanation Dessert Storm. .....interesting

 

[adamss24]

Karl, if one does not go stupidly high then a larger turbo will spool just as well as the factory gtb2260vk... I had a gt2266 hybrid turbo on my old a6 tdi which done 300 Bhp on a old v6 tdi with less CC than your 3.0Tdi. That turbo is currently running in a friend's allroad and the boost response is digital like, it spools from 1500 rpm/s and goes all the way to redline! I also been in some hybrids gtb2566 and even a gtb2371- gt23 turbine from Mercedes 3.0 Tdi AMG is the largest turbine uses on a passenger car in europe and these large turbos have satisfactory spool with the right mapping ! Now, a ball bearing gt30 will spool instantly and have full boost by 2800 rpm/s however transient response might be not what one desires unless you find one of them gta3576KLNVR turbos from Japanese Hino trucks: ball bearing, VNT and smallish frame medium size turbos ! One might need a subaru style bonnet scoop to accomodate the blower but should be pretty sick motor ! There is a chap in Finland using one of these turbos on a b5 pd130 tdi passat 4 motion and it does 11 sec quarter mile and runs 350 Bhp at the wheels...

 

[desertstorm]

I know they can be good Chris but it won't be as good as the standard turbo and it won't have quite the same driveability. I have found several dyno plots of the 3.0 TDI engine with a 2260 and some are better than others. One of the best as regards low down performance I have seen is on here

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=385304

The JD engineering people seem to have a pretty good rep and know what they are doing. They turn out reliable useable cars and I wouldn't think I would get a much better map than they can do.
If I map the more powerful run onto the dyno run I did at MRC you get the following.



At the end of the day the bigger turbo car will be quicker, but how much quicker ?
I bunged all the figures into the website here which I have used before many times and found to be quite accurate if you use reasonable numbers for the cars weight.

http://vlsicad.ucsd.edu/~sharma/Potpourri/perf_est.html

It calculates a distance time graph for acceleration and my car to 1320feet (1/4 mile) it says 12.25 seconds, it only calculates from 20mph as it ignores the start phase. If you say my car does 0-20 in 1 second a reasonable figure then that gives a 1/4 mile time around 13.25 which is virtually what it does. Inputting the figures for the Finn turbo map assuming all else the same comes out at 11.9 seconds so around 0.35 seconds faster over the quarter mile.

The site also calculates loads of acceleration times through the gears these come out as below.
As my car is now


Predicted hybrid turbo performance



Just about 2 seconds faster to get from 30 to 120mph not something I do on a daily basis but does show the effect of the extra grunt, 30-90 is about 0.8 seconds faster with a hybrid. If my turbo goes pop one day I may try one out .

Karl.