3.0 tdi CAPA dpf removal help

[Natebrand1987]

Right well after waiting far to long for the seller in poland to post out this pipe (2 Weeks.. sigh ) it should arrive early next week.

it looks a pita to fit

its the short version and i can only see one bolt of the lower flange

i know people on here have done it but the explanation was short as it wasnt a how to guide

if anyone has any pointers on what and how to go about it it would be greatly appreciated

i have good skill and do build my own engines id just like some tips before i start to help me save time

then finally i can remap

thanks alot

 

[desertstorm]

I have taken off and swapped the DPF on my car 3 or 4 times swapping it for a downpipe and eventually taking the DPF to modify it.
I can swap turbos over in just over an hour, I have swapped it that many times between the original and Hybrid.
It's a CAPA the same as yours.
I have appended the Elsa Win process for doing this.
Basically you need to remove the strut brace that runs across the top of the plenum panel. You will need to seperate the battery power distribution box from the strut brace and undo the bolts that secure the plenum panel.
Disconnect the intake pipe off the turbo along with wiring for the DPF pressure sensor and unplug the Lambda and EGT sensors off the DPF.
Remove the heat shield off the top of the turbo, two screws on top one at the side that is a bit of a pain to get at. I don't bother with this third screw now,I haven't bothered putting it back on. You can undo the 3 nuts, 12mm, that secure the downpipe to the turbo.
A 12mm ratchet ring spanner is handy here.
The fiddly bits are trying to get the plenum panel out, you have to manouvre the heater pipes out of the way, It is tight but it will come out.
Bobby Singh undid the heater pipes on his. With the downpipe in, putting the plenum panel back is easy as you have a lot more room.
The other fiddly bit is one of the nuts that secures the DPF to the downpipe. This need to be undone from underneath. You need two long 1/2 inch extension bars and a universal joint. You need to guide the socket up the side of the gearbox and find the nut. A torch and some patience is needed here.
The two nuts from the top are fairly easy to get at with the plenum panel out the way.
I found that the EGT sensors didn't fit 100% on my pipe, the threaded section seemed to be too long and the sensor didn't bottom out in the hole.
To resolve this I drilled through some nuts to make a spacer that meant the end of the EGT sensors bottomed out in the holes.
Try your sensors to see if they fit OK before you put the pipe on the car.

Karl.

 

[Natebrand1987]

thank you for the timely reply this is the exact information i was looking for !!! ill let you know how i get on when i do it !

one more thing how badly did the car smoke when you removed the dpf before mapping ?? ill have to fit the pipe then drive to the mappers unless i can get him to send me the file but id rather go down and get him to tweak it while im there ... just dont wanna dump a load of fuel into the sump on the drive down etc

 

[desertstorm]

I had the DPF removed and the map done in the same day. The cars don't smoke at all without the DPF on. Quite the opposite, any car that has a DPF can't afford to produce too much smoke as it would be regenerating all the time . They are really clean with no smoke at all on the standard tune or even a remap if it's done properly.

 

[Slackworth]

Would it cause the car to go into limp home mode with no DPF present?

 

[desertstorm]

You might get a CEL against the DPF pressure sensor and you don't want it to try a regen when it's not there. Probably the best thing to do is do a forced regen before you disconnect it. That way it will reset the counters in the ECU and it will be expecting a small amount of pressure on the DPF.

 

[Natebrand1987]

well years ago on my 1.9 when i removed the dpf i had it mapped the next day.

instantly the dp sensors threw a code and it went into like a safety mode and regenned every few miles was a bit smokey

just hope not enough to dump fuel into the sump

 

[Natebrand1987]

Finially arrived now to wrap fit and map... Going on holiday in the next few days tho so since it took so long to arrive it will have to be done once Im home

 

[desertstorm]

A lot cheaper than the Darkside downpipe. I see you went for the 3 inch version. Are you going to upgrade the rest of the exhaust as well ?

 

[Natebrand1987]

I'm not sure yet see how we get on I want it to still be quiet I know full well it will get louder when the dpf Is out I may put a mid box in to keep it sensible and still sleeper I'm not 21 any longer lol

I'm actually quiet impressed with it tbh and considering its half the price of dark side and their dark side tax must be worth it

 

[Joe3.0tdi]

You wont need additional silencers! I have none and it's only loud when i drive like a hooligan

 

[Gazwould]

+1 let the V6 growl be heard .

 

[Natebrand1987]

Right , apologies its been a while had holidays to attend and other bits and bobs but...

finially getting it mapped on the 15th in the afternoon half a day on the dyno to hopefully get the max out of this engine on stock turbo ....

i finish work 7am GMT so hopefully waking up early afternoon to make a start the weather isnt looking great so i may have to pull it into my worksop to do it but its no issue at least if i make a start tomorrow i can have another day to take it steady and not rush the job ready for wednesday !!

wish me luck !!!!!!!

 

[Natebrand1987]

a nice smokeless 344hp and 720nm not bad for a stock turbo with the only mods a 3" dp and a large ic

played with the injection times a little and it made good numbers.. was well more to give iq wise but was getting a bit scared for the turbo so my self and the mapper agreed to stop

 

[Joe3.0tdi]

Nice. I find out what mine makes next Saturday, I have similar spec.
Without being a troll but I've spoken to several of what I'd call the UK's better diesel tuners and all swear that the 2260vk is maxed at 290/300hp and even hybrids won't make more than 350. And yet here's yours at 344 with stock turbo and desertstorm with everything 380...makes you wonder who has the truth of it. They aren't small differences

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[Gazwould]

It really needs to go on a dyno dynamics ( heart breaker ) rolling road for me to believe any figures .

 

[Joe3.0tdi]

What's the reasoning there Gaz?

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[Gazwould]

Some rolling roads are too generous, Awesome gti is well known to produce hybrid turbo results with standard turbos .

Dyno Dynamics is realistic .

Dastek I imagine would also be accurate .

 

[Natebrand1987]

fueling is everything ona diesel and diesel injection timing means alot ... on a 1.9 these turbos run 300hp "with everything" how you can claim desertstorm has everything im not sure as everything in my book is full race spec

cc tuning is a well regarded tuner that doesnt over exagerate his figures .. the cars losses were fully calibrated before we ran the car on the dyno

 

[Joe3.0tdi]

Sorry phone typo'd that. Should have read 'over 380' not everything.
Well it'll be interesting to compare as mine is almost identical spec. As I said, just interesting to read the different claims and what different tuners are saying.

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[desertstorm]

TBH I think 344bhp is a little exaggerated for the hardware that you have. The problem with the standard turbo is back pressure as the turbine is only 45mm so trying to force all the exhaust gas through there is an issue.
I didn;t know CC had a 4WD dyno , I thought they were running a 2WD the last time I looked.
I would be really surprised if you could get more than about 325-330 bhp tops out of a standard turbo.
When it comes to hybrids you have to look at what mods have been made to the turbo, Some hybrids just fit a larger compressor , you still have the same issue with the turbine ultimately.
My hybrid has the largest size turbine you can fit as well as a decent size compressor, even so to get much more than 380bhp you need to start adding water methanol to reduce EGT temps.
At the end of the day I am sure it's a lot quicker than it was. You should bring it along to GTI International and have a run up the 1/4 mile and see how quick it is.

 

[Natebrand1987]

hes only had it a few weeks its a mustang from america. as above we played with the timings and did 1.8 bar

im more than aware the turbine is the limiting factor hence why we stopped as egts started to rise exponentially

 

[bobby singh]

I agree that 340hp is out of reach with a stock 2260 - if you have vcds maybe post some logs?
Boost, lambda, rail pressure, IQ, air mass and duration.

With just 1.8bar boost how much smoke do you have for 340hp worth of fuel?

Like Karl said 1/4 mile trap speed will give a good indication.

 

[Natebrand1987]

I have a day off on Wednesday I'll o some then

 

[Paul @ Unit 9 Remaps]

On stock turbo they run out of puff a smudge over 300 in reality

 

[Natebrand1987]

how do they run 300hp on a 1.9 then ( of which i had a race spec and know my stuff with) ? when this engine has 1.1 more litres 2 more cylinders and engine less losses... but admittedly more losses drivetrain and running gear wise due to the 4wd.. again this wasnt just a flash map and this was tweaked for more and more .... im off to usc so ill get some 1/4 miles and the times will tell

 

[desertstorm]

The limitation comes from the size of the turbine. On a 1.9 you use a lot more boost than 1.8 bar to make your 300bhp this gives you a certain mass airflow along with the fuel injected produces a large volume of exhaust gas.
By the time you get to 320bhp ish the volume of exhaust gas is so high that it creates a lot of back pressure in the turbo. If you hook up an EMP gauge and check how much back pressure the engine is seeing it quite quickly gets over 45 psi at high rpm with the standard turbo.
This is pretty much all down to the restriction caused by the VNT and the turbine itself.
Fitting a larger compressor wheel only makes a bit of difference as the turbo doesn't need to rotate quite as fast and the VNT will be more open so this improves the situation a little.
The Quattro drive train shouldn't make any difference as the calculated flywheel power should take this into account.

 

[Natebrand1987]

Guys as I have already stated I'm aware if the turbine limitations I have already stated what's holding it back and why we stopped why you all seem to be repeating what I have already said im not sure and no disrespect you don't me or my background but I don't need to be taught to suck eggs you may be the big boys in this scene but so was I with the z19s noone even attempted to do what I did to this engine before me let alone fit a 2566vklr to a z19 again let alone fully forged and balanced

Go on fb look.up the z19dth tuning group my old build thread is on there

I'm no noob I have basic experience of mapping and being an mechanical fitter and diesel fitter by trade I can build anything I want custom or not

I have vast experience with diesel combustion

Im not a noob

 

[Natebrand1987]

This page

 

[bobby singh]

Have you ever studied a 2260 compressor map?
If you have you'll notice the map stops at .23kg/s when i had my 3.0TDI with a 2260 i measured 900kg/h (max that could be measured) which is .25kg/s the map is only plotted to 165k rpm. One can calculate @ .25kg/s we are over 178k rpm.

My car made just under 320hp / 720nm that's with more boost than 1.8bar and clean lambda.

Now do you understand why 344hp with clean lambda doesn't add up?

 

[Natebrand1987]

So did you actually advance the timings or just keep essentially stock timings and up the iq ? Tuning box style fuel tables ie soi and eoi only get you so far ( I know I've been there running 45psi and smoking its tits off before until I played with the timing tables smoke went down power went up

And yes my lambda is also clean

The torque limit was calculated by the ECU on the dyno to of been hit even though is was set 30nm higher than it actually produced on the dyno either or we could of set it higher but chose not too you can see on the graph the ecu calculated it hit the limiter at 750nm midrange we then tailed it off to redline again clearly seen on the torque graph

 

[Joe3.0tdi]

Mine made 311bhp and 625nm today. Torque seems to be down a bit on what others have made but I'm pleased all in all. Hybrid fitted and mapped this week so it'll be back on the rollers again very soon.

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[desertstorm]

When I last took my car to Ricks to get the hybrid mapped we altered the SOI timings looking to see if this gave more power and it made no difference to the peak power. The reason that you usually have to increase SOI as you know is to get the duration to inject enough fuel to make the power you want. Injecting too long after TDC just generates smoke and heat . With the fuel system on the 3.0 TDI this doesn't seem to be an issue if you have bumped up the rail pressure and the pump can supply enough fuel at that pressure.
Nobody is saying you don't know what you are doing, You obviously do with what you have done before, just saying that nobody else has managed to get that much power out of a standard turbo on a 3.0 TDI. Even the Portugese tuners don't claim that much.
The difference between 325 and 345bhp is only about 6% so small errors make big differences in the numbers. There are plenty of 3.0 TDI cars around with hybrids on that only make 360-370 bhp.