Newbie seeking advise.

Enda

Enda

Enda a.k.a Doof
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Hi Gents/Ladies,


I'm in the process of purchasing an Audi s3 - 8l chassis.

I'm basically intending to drive it for a year while collecting parts to then take a week off work to construct a 350whp weapon.

Now, my question here for you today is can you heeeelp me?
I have so far compiled a list of everything i believe i will need to produce such a power figure at the wheels, i've e-mailed various tuning companies and theyve said theyd rather not get involved with the hardware set up - no idea why, maybe someone here can shed some light on it ?

anyways, back on topic, here is my list:

-IE Forged con rods
-FR Tuning GT2871r (custom exhaust housing to fit standard manifold and downpipe)
-Hardknock speed shop 3'' 316 stainless downpipe
-Bosch 550cc injectors
-Deatchwerks DW65v drop in fuel pump
-Front mount intercooler kit (i want a wellycooler but cant find piping big enough??)
-R Tech CAI
-R Tech Turbo inlet pipe
-N249 Delete
-SAI Delete?
-3'' 316 Decat pipe (manufacturer unknown as of yet, will appreciate recommendations)
-3'' Cat back single exit exhaust (Same as above, unknown manufacturer, recommendations appreciated)
-Oil catch can and fittings (again same as above)


The car is a bog standard S3 with an apy engine with ZERO modifications... the colour is quite gorgeous aswell.. and yes, its factory!

Advise/criticism appreciated :)

Some pictures below!
S3
S33
S333
 
The original plan was to get a turbonetics T3 and a Atp cast manifold with a tial 38mm external gate, then for some reason i thought this would be better.
think i should revert to the old plan ?

And thanks man :)
Not mine yet but i should be picking it up this weekend fingers crossed and i just want to go balls out on it and get stuck into the modifications!
 
Enda said:
The original plan was to get a turbonetics T3 and a Atp cast manifold with a tial 38mm external gate, then for some reason i thought this would be better.
think i should revert to the old plan ?

And thanks man :)
Not mine yet but i should be picking it up this weekend fingers crossed and i just want to go balls out on it and get stuck into the modifications!
Click to expand...
I have an ATP setup, it's far from the best, but works ok for a budget build. You are limited in turbo size with ATP manifolds as it's very very tight back there with it being side mount, my 2867 only just fits.

There's much better options out there, and I'd only ever recommend v-banded manifolds and housings now I have some experience of the aforementioned setup.

If you aren't prepared to pay for the best stuff, prepare for headaches.

Consider hybrid ko4, they've come on a long way over the past year or so and pretty much negate the budget 'small' big turbo builds.
 
Well the 'project' - can you call it that? haha - is planned over a year or even longer if i cant afford the best stuff, i just saw that turbo as a simple solution a relatively complex issue.
Money isnt really an issue, its the goal more than anything and reliability, like how they say (cheap) (fast) (reliable) - choose 3? mine are fast and reliable haha.
SO,
Scrap that turbo set up, V-band custom tubular manifold, sidewinder style perhaps to try and get more space? with a custom downpipe.

Also, what kind of power is achievable with hyrbid ko4's? and why dont people tend to run ko6 turbos?
With regard to the power figures, i've looked about and there is a gigantic variation in some of the power outputs people are receiving, strange.

Your kind of advise is the type i really want, straight to the fkin point haha.

I've searched 350whp and nothing has come up, am i doing it wrong?
 
Enda said:
Well the 'project' - can you call it that? haha - is planned over a year or even longer if i cant afford the best stuff, i just saw that turbo as a simple solution a relatively complex issue.
Money isnt really an issue, its the goal more than anything and reliability, like how they say (cheap) (fast) (reliable) - choose 3? mine are fast and reliable haha.
SO,
Scrap that turbo set up, V-band custom tubular manifold, sidewinder style perhaps to try and get more space? with a custom downpipe.

Also, what kind of power is achievable with hyrbid ko4's? and why dont people tend to run ko6 turbos?
With regard to the power figures, i've looked about and there is a gigantic variation in some of the power outputs people are receiving, strange.

Your kind of advise is the type i really want, straight to the fkin point haha.

I've searched 350whp and nothing has come up, am i doing it wrong?
Click to expand...
Manifold options include: Pagparts, Nortech, Badger 5, TSR, JDL, all can come with downpipes.

Hybrid ko4s are touching 400hp now, most see at least 350.
Ko6 turbos are tiny. Ko4 hybrids have the internals of much bigger turbos.

Power figures do vary because not every build is the same, and not every build is built to the same standard, or mapped by the same people with the same experience, throw in dyno lottery and yeh, results vary alot. But they do give you a ball park for the kind of specs they are.

You haven't found anything under '350whp' because we are not in america and we don't take at the wheel figures as gospel when there can be so much variability
 
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Enda said:
...I've searched 350whp and nothing has come up, am i doing it wrong?
Click to expand...

Searching for 'whp'... this is a UK forum not a US one... and being too specific... 350 is an arbitrary figure...

380-400hp (flywheel) is achievable with a K04 hybrid these days... beyond that its realistically a GT30 and up... GT28 turbos have had their day IMO

<tuffty/>
 
I've done some searching and i think i'm going to follow your advise with regard to the hybrid turbo, BBT seem quite highly rated and their prices are incredible, as for manifold, again i think after doing some searching i'm going to go for a badger 5 unit.
I've messaged him about the WMI aswell, apparently its a good shout to reduce chance of detonation and keep temps down.

HI <tuffty/>, feel quite honored you've replied to this thread haha.
Yeah i've read that the bbt hybrid has supposedly produced 395 at the wheels on a badger 5 manifold, so that and the fact that every thread i've looked on has had them mentioned so they seem the go to people and not only that, cant get much better than the customer support being on our side of the atlantic.
 
Mother of god.... i had no idea hybrids were so capable, after seeing that result it begs the question on who to go with, BBT or AET?

I've not found a result like that from a bbt turbo, but then again, one can only know as much as their searching skills allow.
 
Well ive spoken to mr badger 5 himself, he said the ko4-380 is the way to go as its pitched as 380 and anything more is a bonus. Might be worth being power greedy and asking about that one on the lupo :p

Thanks for all your help gents. Will keep this updated as the build progresses :)
 
Okay, update.

I've spoken to Badger5, decided to go down the AET hybrid route with the Badger 5 v2 cast mani.
Couple more questions..
Water meth injection, reccomended?
what about ARP head studs?
Will i need a larger maf housing?
4bar fpr with the 550cc injectors or not needed?
driveshafts... will they cope @ circa 380bhp?

everything else in terms of power modifications have been completely decided now.
Up till now i just wanna thank you both for your help!
 
Enda said:
Okay, update.

I've spoken to Badger5, decided to go down the AET hybrid route with the Badger 5 v2 cast mani.
Couple more questions..
Water meth injection, reccomended?
what about ARP head studs?
Will i need a larger maf housing?
4bar fpr with the 550cc injectors or not needed?
driveshafts... will they cope @ circa 380bhp?

everything else in terms of power modifications have been completely decided now.
Up till now i just wanna thank you both for your help!
Click to expand...
Water meth is like gods semen. you dont need it, but its good, Bill is a fan.
ARP head studs not needed at those levels unless you like taking the engine apart
You will probably max the maf housing out but it will still suffice, look at S4 housings
I think bill uses 550cc with the lupo
driveshafts are fine
 
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superkarl said:
Water meth is like gods semen.
Click to expand...

LOL... Its something i might consider if its as good as people say, plus theres always that pleasure of telling people your car is running water meth :sign omg:

I'll leave the head studs then, knocks a couple hundred quid off the total cost.
b5 s4 housings?

also, finally, i was reading tuffty's build thread, mentioned the big end shells, is this needed?
 
Enda said:
...also, finally, i was reading tuffty's build thread, mentioned the big end shells, is this needed?
Click to expand...

Obviously you realise you would need new ones if replacing the rods (and new rings too) but if asking if you need calico/ACL bearings over OE then probably not

<tuffty/>
 
Semi update, this update is purely for anyone wanting to use as reference for components to build a full proof hybrid/BT build

As i havent actually got the car yet i've done alot of looking around/researching various bits and bobs for my '400bhp' build.

So in the end heres the final list of what i've personally come across with regards to building a reliable road weapon s3 with the potential then convert upwards towards a big turbo build.

IE forged conrods - Rifle Drilled with Oem bearings and arp 2000 bolts
Bosch 550cc Injectors
AET Hybrid Ko4 with the K16 Turbine
Badger 5 V2 Cast manifold
AEM v2 Water meth injection kit - not really required but would be a fantastic addition.
I've chosen to go with a Deatchwerks DW65V drop in fuel pump, can go inline as it seems more favored.
'Wellycooler' with a universal 3'' piping kit - reason for 3'' is that i dont want a restriction if and when i choose to go for even more power.
Badger 5 TIP - no option on this if you choose to go for the aforementioned turbo.
Cold air intake - still unsure what would be the best option, will update as and when i find out
3'' downpipe is a must, £320 fitted from Hard knocks speed shop - 316 SS Tig welded (be prepared for a long wait though when booking)
But if you know a fabricator a full turbo back could be considerably cheaper, i've been quoted £900 for a full turbo back in 316 TIG welded with v-bands from UnitTEN performance in Birmingham.
For a clutch the one that seems very popular is a Sachs 4 paddle clutch with an oem plate, i've read that <tuffty/> has been using said set up on his car for some time now and has worked out perfectly fine on his BT build but remember clutch wear is completely subjective to how the car is driven, if you arent comfortable using the OEM plate and dualmass flywheel a LUK pressure plate and DMF seems a good replacement.

Obvious logic when rebuilding the engine would be to renew the gaskets, rod bearings, end shells, full cambelt kit and some oem head bolts. There would be no point going for ARP studs as OEM ones are currently being used on a friends Drag car at 660bhp - save yourself ALOT of money.

With regards to tuning it entirely personal preference. I will be using Bill @ Badger5 purely because he seems to be the go to guy and he helped develop the turbo i am using.

I would also recommend doing an n249 and SAI delete aswell.

I'm also going to bless the reader with an overall price for components below, bear in mind that this price is ONLY for components.
Obviously will be more if you get someone to rebuild the engine and fit components to the car.

Final price for components is £3812.

The price is for all brand spanking new components aswell, obviously if you can obtain second hand parts it will be cheaper but why would you budget yourself if you're pretty much doubling the cars power from standard?

Buy cheap Buy twice.

Hope this will answer some peoples questions.
 
Last edited:
Small piece of advice - don't get too hung up on peak numbers...it just ends up with disappointment.
 
Yeah i get that haha.
Thats why i was like '400bhp' as peak figures are all down to the accuracy of the dyno, weather, how good engine is yada yada yada.
 
Yeah about that, i'm wondering if it will affect the amount of lag or not, some guy mentioned it and now im questioning it.
May step it down to 2.5'' but all in due time, doing exhaust first.
 
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