What have you done to your Audi A4 B7 today?

[northpole]

That's why I would only go for those super cheap ones at least you know they need an overhaul... but that is just me... I rather pull them off a scrapped car... and afaik the 18z calipers are on the mk1 q7 3.0 tdi's too and loads of them are being broken at the moment but those will be scrappy prices so a bit higher as they do come with a 3 month warranty (if you don't remove their markings)

 

[Jamsmoo]

I’m not sure 320 to 345 is worth the hassle and cost ,will 12.5mm on the radius really look so much different


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[northpole]

it's 22.5 so yeah it'll make a visual difference....Now between the s4 345mm and the 18z 350mm visually it's neglectable but brake surface wise the 18z wins it. But the s4 calipers will have less problems fitting most wheels with close to standard fitment.

 

[B7Tourer]

if that is the old key it was well past it's best...

Yes it was... but that was at around 230,000 miles, which is well beyond when most of them failed, and with a patchy history before my ownership at 172K. It's proof that not all of them were destined to fail within the manufacturer's intended lifespan. Anyway I was lucky and at the time was able to afford the preventative best solution. At the same time I had the troublesome toothed belt idler shaft helicolied, as well.

It is interesting to take into account that many of these VAG 2.0 TDI engines served in taxis at the time, with 450,000+ miles, with no issues whatsoever and no mods. The reason being that miles are not the only wear on an engine - cycles - cold start to warm switch off - are just as important; cold starts, before oil has circulated properly being the greatest wear on any engine. My engine at almost 277,000 has had a harder life than they did; since it will have gone through many more cycles in coming up 20 years. Those taxis idled warmly through the day, and were rarely switched off.

 

[B7Tourer]

also the car feels so much better on the roads, way more reassuring feel whilst cruising at 70 mph (with the cruise control on) both feet off the pedals and just a nice relaxing drive... actually enhanced by me putting the front seats in the highest position and sitting up right, i normally have them set in the lowest position leaning back, but i just now realised for long trips the up right position gives a more relaxed drive. It's easier to get in and out of the car, but i did hit my head twice today, on the sunvisor and on the b- pillar... never happened before when I have the seats in the lean back position, all the way down to the floor. And sitting up straight all of a sudden creates space between the front and the rear seats... I always thought it weird that the space between them was so small, now i know why lol.

I discovered this about the seats a while ago lol; when a 'large' friend in Spain, couldn't get into the passenger seat. I adjusted my seat also to give a better view over the bonnet. I'm 6 foot and I do occsionally hit the top of the door getting in, since then. It's also how I discovered the headlining was falling in slightly, lol. I've also played with the steering wheel settings.

Just to add, taking your hands of the wheel and driving in a straight line and seeming good handling, is not necessarily an indication of tracking being bang on. I've always mostly had that. It can be equally out slightly on toe and camber; as I discovered last time I had tracking done. Tracking for me at the moment is about tyre wear, especially on these Pirellis; which is why since I had new front lower control arms fitted and new rear eccentric bolts, and after I add new front ARB drop links, swap fronts to rear, I'm getting it done again.

 

[Jamsmoo]

it's 22.5 so yeah it'll make a visual difference....Now between the s4 345mm and the 18z 350mm visually it's neglectable but brake surface wise the 18z wins it. But the s4 calipers will have less problems fitting most wheels with close to standard fitment.

Where’s 22.5 from
I have 320 disks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[northpole]

Where’s 22.5 from
I have 320 disks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

oww my bad that is 25mm diverence 345- 320 = 25 ... that is almost 1 inch difference yeah you will notice it.

 

[northpole]

I discovered this about the seats a while ago lol; when a 'large' friend in Spain, couldn't get into the passenger seat. I adjusted my seat also to give a better view over the bonnet. I'm 6 foot and I do occsionally hit the top of the door getting in, since then. It's also how I discovered the headlining was falling in slightly, lol. I've also played with the steering wheel settings.

lol always found it lacking in space lol, now i know why, and funnily enough i'm 6 foot too (184 cm to be exact)

Just to add, taking your hands of the wheel and driving in a straight line and seeming good handling, is not necessarily an indication of tracking being bang on. I've always mostly had that. It can be equally out slightly on toe and camber; as I discovered last time I had tracking done. Tracking for me at the moment is about tyre wear, especially on these Pirellis; which is why since I had new front lower control arms fitted and new rear eccentric bolts, and after I add new front ARB drop links, swap fronts to rear, I'm getting it done again.

I agree, but the tire ware has been even since Feb. And i plan on replacing all the rear arms next year after the MOT... once i've done that the car will get the alignment redone.. and with all the arms I also mean the supporting hardware (nuts, arb links, bolts, bushes and new rear wheel bearings) since the front has been completely replaced

 

[Charlie Farley]

S4 running 345 as factory fit so alloys will be the same fittment as prior.

18z can run 345 or 350 ., calipers are 6 pot and much longer with a more angular shape thus the issues with issues with alloy choice , and, offset and rim diameter are relative.
18” is the minimum for 18z fittment.
A fair few oe Audi wheels fit but research is needed to ensure clearance.

 

[Jamsmoo]

S4 running 345 as factory fit so alloys will be the same fittment as prior.

18z can run 345 or 350 ., calipers are 6 pot and much longer with a more angular shape thus the issues with issues with alloy choice , and, offset and rim diameter are relative.
18” is the minimum for 18z fittment.
A fair few oe Audi wheels fit but research is needed to ensure clearance.

Am I right in saying I have same calipers as s4 just different carriers to accommodate a slightly larger disk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[northpole]

Yes it was... but that was at around 230,000 miles, which is well beyond when most of them failed, and with a patchy history before my ownership at 172K. It's proof that not all of them were destined to fail within the manufacturer's intended lifespan. Anyway I was lucky and at the time was able to afford the preventative best solution. At the same time I had the troublesome toothed belt idler shaft helicolied, as well.

It is interesting to take into account that many of these VAG 2.0 TDI engines served in taxis at the time, with 450,000+ miles, with no issues whatsoever and no mods. The reason being that miles are not the only wear on an engine - cycles - cold start to warm switch off - are just as important; cold starts, before oil has circulated properly being the greatest wear on any engine. My engine at almost 277,000 has had a harder life than they did; since it will have gone through many more cycles in coming up 20 years. Those taxis idled warmly through the day, and were rarely switched off.

Cars that run all day like cabs, and cars that mainly have big motorway mileage always have less engine ware if they are serviced when needed...I've seen both diesel and petrol engines do crazy miles when they are well maintained and get to do most of the miles with a hot engine. The ware on those cars is usually the suspension and bushes that let them down, rarely the engine.

So that original hex-key held up well, most give up earlier, but some of the 2.0 tdi's had been fitted wih a new key by the dealer it wasn't a recall but they would replace it if the car came in for a big service afaik (I know that's how VW did it not sure about Audi)

 

[Charlie Farley]

Am I right in saying I have same calipers as s4 just different carriers to accommodate a slightly larger disk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Correct, it is the carriers that are slightly different.
Sometimes it is easier to just pickup a complete pair of s4,s than hunt for carriers that can be expensive for what they are, also oe brake lines can be retained.

 

[Charlie Farley]

There are spec differences between the the two calipers but dimensional they are the same, the reason for the carrier change is the mounting hole position is different to make allowance for the larger diameter disc.

 

[northpole]

and that is why they slightly look different too... that all said.. both options are equally as good but the 18z is more common since they are fitted to way more cars than you realize, not just VAG cars but a whole mirad of other brands too. one of the forum members on uk-mkivs.net got a set of a Jaguar and fitted those to his mk4 he didn't even need to change the cariers since they are the same 18z calipers.

 

[B7Tourer]

So that original hex-key held up well, most give up earlier, but some of the 2.0 tdi's had been fitted wih a new key by the dealer it wasn't a recall but they would replace it if the car came in for a big service afaik (I know that's how VW did it not sure about Audi)

VW/Audi never fitted the longer 100mm hex key, as far as I know; they only fitted the later geared balance shaft unit to engines like the BLB, that were chain driven. The 100mm came well into the B8 production.

Good point about the cab mileage both petrol and diesel too. But it's the lower cycles that gives them such longevity; mine's been mostly motrway too and there is no way that shaft would have lasted another 50K even. Servicing would be much more frequent than Audi schedules, even fixed, though I doubt any more frequent than my 6-8K.

 

[B7Tourer]

There are spec differences between the the two calipers but dimensional they are the same, the reason for the carrier change is the mounting hole position is different to make allowance for the larger diameter disc.

As master of all things brakes, Rob, and whilst on the subject, what's your best recommendation for standard pads. The Borg Beck discs have been excellent but the Borg Beck pads are starting to squeal at low speeds, even though they are wearing very well. I was thinking about trying some Brembo pads, any good?

 

[northpole]

lol i got brembo pads... they soil the wheels like crazy but are silent, and i don't drive big miles with mine, nor does the car see a lot of motorway miles ( unless i go for a planned trip)... the better ones i had where the ferodo DS 2000 sport pads, less brake dust, as grippy as the brembo's and lasted long enough.

 

[northpole]

Servicing would be much more frequent than Audi schedules, even fixed, though I doubt any more frequent than my 6-8K.

VW dropped the ball in the UK they did do it in the Netherlands and Germany AFAIK.
depends on who owned it, i had a neighbour that was a cabby he would service his car every 5k religously, he had both a petrol and a diesel both cars were constantly used. He did say he earns more because he owns his own cars, but it does mean he won't skimp on maitenance unlike the fixed intervals the cabs owned by the company recieved.

 

[B7Tourer]

VW dropped the ball in the UK they did do it in the Netherlands and Germany AFAIK.

They didn't because the modified hex key and balance shaft wasn't around until 2009 and they never retrofitted it to the B7s and other PD 2.0TDIs neither. It also wasn't anywhere near as good as KMB's solution, since the first 8mm of the balance shaft is wider and doesn't engage with the key; and the machining isn't as tight nor the material as hard as KMB's neither. KMB makes kits for those 100mm too since there are many cases of those failing also on B8s and other VAG common rails.

5k sounds wise, which can be a service every month to 6 weeks for the average cabbie; many can reach that mileage even quicker. As I said, the principle reason these engines last much longer in diligent taxi/owner hands is down more to off from cold and on cycles, not so much the service frequency; the same engines with the same poor hex keys achieved greatly higher mileage over a much shorter period than any known example has over 20 years, in ordinary hands; even with near enough the same oil change schedules, in mileage terms.

 

[northpole]

yeah not sure about that as i said i came here in 2010 and they were fitting them in Germany and the Netherlands at the big service only. That all said before that time i can't compare since i wasn't living here nor did i work for any of the VAG dealers here in the UK.

Yeah 5k can be done very quickly in the transportation world. cabbies are lucky compared to truck drivers.

 

[northpole]

@B7Tourer the brakedust is more pronounced because my wheels are black.. it would be a bit less of an eyesore with a lighter colour. Actually noticed that gunmetal grey hides brakedust very well, my neighbours BMW 520D has that wheel colour and he runs brembo sport pads too, when my look dirty his are still clean looking. And he does drive a lot more than i do.

 

[alps26]

@B7Tourer the brakedust is more pronounced because my wheels are black.. it would be a bit less of an eyesore with a lighter colour. Actually noticed that gunmetal grey hides brakedust very well, my neighbours BMW 520D has that wheel colour and he runs brembo sport pads too, when my look dirty his are still clean looking. And he does drive a lot more than i do.

The Brembo Sport pads (assuming they're the HP2 pads) produce a grey tinted dust rather than the brown tinted dust of "normal" pads. That's why you don't notice it so much on the gunmetal grey wheels of your neighbours car. They dust a bit less than "normal" pads too

 

[northpole]

The Brembo Sport pads (assuming they're the HP2 pads) produce a grey tinted dust rather than the brown tinted dust of "normal" pads. That's why you don't notice it so much on the gunmetal grey wheels of your neighbours car. They dust a bit less than "normal" pads too

not when it is this weather though the iron content in the dust soon turns red to the point where I actually had to check my purchase to see if they were the right pads... they are it's just the iron content reacting to water, both mine and my neighbours do the same but his wheel colour hides that better too. Mweh it's the way it is.. I might just have the wheels redone as I'm not a big fan of the black wheels but got used to them anyway ( car is blacked out completely and I bought it like that)

 

[Jamsmoo]

Maybe wishful thinking but they look pretty big disks so I’d guess 18z ..hopeful they’d fit around mine


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Matt275]

Cars that run all day like cabs, and cars that mainly have big motorway mileage always have less engine ware if they are serviced when needed...I've seen both diesel and petrol engines do crazy miles when they are well maintained and get to do most of the miles with a hot engine. The ware on those cars is usually the suspension and bushes that let them down, rarely the engine.

So that original hex-key held up well, most give up earlier, but some of the 2.0 tdi's had been fitted wih a new key by the dealer it wasn't a recall but they would replace it if the car came in for a big service afaik (I know that's how VW did it not sure about Audi)

77mm to 100mm?

 

[northpole]

That was depending on the engines... lower power ones got jst a standars replacement... which is the 77 mm one. The higher powered models got the 100 mm one.

I remember the mechanics moaning about the extra work, yet they got pushed to rush the jobs and finish as close as possible to the normal big service times. Even though the bill for the extra time was covered by VW gmbh headquarters.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Maybe wishful thinking but they look pretty big disks so I’d guess 18z ..hopeful they’d fit around mine


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Getting just enough caliper clearance on a B7 with 18z's is very hit and miss.
From a lot of personal experience, it is a combination of the right offset, rim width, and style of rim. Spacer can help but there isnt alot of wiggle room on the fronts without it looking like a tractor and rubbing wheel arch issues.
I've found that OE audi rims, particularly 19" fit ok, but you need just the right offset.
Aftermarket options can be a bit trickier, but rims from Oz will fit perfectly, as do many higher-quality rims. However, it is not guaranteed.

 

[Charlie Farley]

A lot of guys just asume that because the B7 rs4 has big calipers, 8 pot brembos, then the same format works for the rest of the B7 platform, it does'nt , for obvious reason.

 

[Jamsmoo]

Getting just enough caliper clearance on a B7 with 18z's is very hit and miss.
From a lot of personal experience, it is a combination of the right offset, rim width, and style of rim. Spacer can help but there isnt alot of wiggle room on the fronts without it looking like a tractor and rubbing wheel arch issues.
I've found that OE audi rims, particularly 19" fit ok, but you need just the right offset.
Aftermarket options can be a bit trickier, but rims from Oz will fit perfectly, as do many higher-quality rims. However, it is not guaranteed.

I’m presuming an Audi tuner like abt has thought about this ,the above car isn’t a rs just a tuned a4
I’ve been in touch with sf tuning who supply big brake kits ,they’ve sent me an electronic template to reproduce as a guide


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Charlie Farley]

I’m presuming an Audi tuner like abt has thought about this ,the above car isn’t a rs just a tuned a4
I’ve been in touch with sf tuning who supply big brake kits ,they’ve sent me an electronic template to reproduce as a guide


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One would think so yes but sadly thats not the case.
very few make allowance for using retro 18z kits etc.
They have a template for a specific variant on given platforms, but not necessarily with larger calipers.
Been there so know all about it, but some do.

 

[Jamsmoo]

One would think so yes but sadly thats not the case.
very few make allowance for using retro 18z kits etc.
They have a template for a specific variant on given platforms, but not necessarily with larger calipers.
Been there so know all about it, but some do.

They sent me a template for seat exeo ..bit odd considering the amount of people modifying a4s in comparison


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jamsmoo]

Considering the pros and cons I’d rather pay a bit more and get a kit from a place that ,by reviews knows their onions ,and I can hold accountable than some cheaper options that I end up spending time and money on rebuild kits /powder coating etc
I’ve started to value my time more than a monetary saving of late


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[B7Tourer]

77mm to 100mm?

Yes Matt.

That was depending on the engines... lower power ones got jst a standars replacement... which is the 77 mm one. The higher powered models got the 100 mm one.

I remember the mechanics moaning about the extra work, yet they got pushed to rush the jobs and finish as close as possible to the normal big service times. Even though the bill for the extra time was covered by VW gmbh headquarters.

That's not true; anywhere. All variants of the B7 and the other PD VW equivalents only ever had the 77mm hex key. That includes BRD 170s. The 100mm came in, with the B8 and not at first - late 2009. There was no retrofitting of the 100mm hex key/redesigned balance shaft by VAG to these PD engines. The only remedial work they ever did was to replace the chain driven oil pump for the gear driven one, on early engines, like the BLB; and in the case of a failed key, some countries where VAG accepted it as a warranty issue (not the UK) simply replaced the 77mm hex key, in later engines, e.g. BRE/BRD.

 

[Jamsmoo]

I had my hex key done in my previous a4 fwd brd 170 approx 4-5 years ago
Every specialist I asked to fit the kmb part refused as they would only fit the oem part ..77mm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jamsmoo]

I had my hex key done in my previous a4 fwd brd 170 approx 4-5 years ago
Every specialist I asked to fit the kmb part refused as they would only fit the oem part ..77mm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That was an 08


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Charlie Farley]

Considering the pros and cons I’d rather pay a bit more and get a kit from a place that ,by reviews knows their onions ,and I can hold accountable than some cheaper options that I end up spending time and money on rebuild kits /powder coating etc
I’ve started to value my time more than a monetary saving of late


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A full kit that's new or refurbed properly will not be cheap mate, and would be questionably worth doing.
If you are going 18z route then just get new S5 discs as they are the best option, a new set of decent pads but not brembo pads.
there are a few sellers doing the bolts,with sleeves or complete exact size bolts/nuts , but to be honest, they are not hard to source.
Then just get a set of braided hoses to match the caliper.
good refurbed calipers from reputable sources are readliy avaible cheaper than getting a whole kit.

if you need any help let me know.
To be honest, you can do the retrofit for around £600 all in if you approach it the right way.

 

[Jamsmoo]

A full kit that's new or refurbed properly will not be cheap mate, and would be questionably worth doing.
If you are going 18z route then just get new S5 discs as they are the best option, a new set of decent pads but not brembo pads.
there are a few sellers doing the bolts,with sleeves or complete exact size bolts/nuts , but to be honest they are not hard to source.
Then just get a set of braided hoses to match the caliper.

Funnily enough I was crawling up the m1 tonight next to an a5 considering if his calipers would fit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Charlie Farley]

S5 discs fit on perfectly , no mods needed at all.

 

[Charlie Farley]

this is an 18z with a 345"" disc. in an 18" dtm alloy, its snug.

 

[Jamsmoo]

A full kit that's new or refurbed properly will not be cheap mate, and would be questionably worth doing.
If you are going 18z route then just get new S5 discs as they are the best option, a new set of decent pads but not brembo pads.
there are a few sellers doing the bolts,with sleeves or complete exact size bolts/nuts , but to be honest, they are not hard to source.
Then just get a set of braided hoses to match the caliper.
good refurbed calipers from reputable sources are readliy avaible cheaper than getting a whole kit.

if you need any help let me know.
To be honest, you can do the retrofit for around £600 all in if you approach it the right way.

I’m finding lots of front and rears ,q7 ,cayenne etc or rears only for both ,.seems folk buy the f&r and try to sell the rears
Same reason for there being loads of pairs of rear Porsche lobster claws 11j for sale


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk