Best intercooler upgrade?

[S3Alex]

I had done a bit of reading on the subject and read that even stage 1 can massively increase your intake temps ? I looked at the airtech stage 2 cooler does seem decent for the money,but as I can't say for sure I won't end up with a. Big turbo I'd rather put something in that will cope with a big turbo rather than having to spend out twice to replace the ic again,if the standard cooler will work at stage 2+ it surely must be right at the limit ?

I never noticed any problems with the stock intercooler at Stg2+,but wasn't looking for any to be honest.

When the ProAlloy arrived for Stg3,the difference was obvious on hot days,as the car didn't feel flat the way it had before when the temps were very high.

 

[Smirky]

I never noticed any problems with the stock intercooler at Stg2+,but wasn't looking for any to be honest.

When the ProAlloy arrived for Stg3,the difference was obvious on hot days,as the car didn't feel flat the way it had before when the temps were very high.

I'm sure it can cope with it but surely wasn't designed to cope with it? I just don't like the idea of running it at the ragged edge

 

[S3Alex]

I'm sure it can cope with it but surely wasn't designed to cope with it? I just don't like the idea of running it at the ragged edge

This is true......you could say that Audi didn't design any part of the S3 with this sort of thing in mind,but they did build it well.

If you have any thoughts about a big turbo or hybrid at some stage,then a big intercooler makes very good sense.

 

[Smirky]

This is true......you could say that Audi didn't design any part of the S3 with this sort of thing in mind,but they did build it well.

If you have any thoughts about a big turbo or hybrid at some stage,then a big intercooler makes very good sense.

Yes I agree it's very well built ,
I think everyone has ideas of big turbos i keep looking at the turbo kits just so many to choose from !

 

[S3Alex]

Yes I agree it's very well built ,
I think everyone has ideas of big turbos i keep looking at the turbo kits just so many to choose from !

Right now I would choose the Nortech kit without hesitation.

It's superb.

 

[S3_Mat]

The Nortech exhaust manifold is leader of the pack that I have found. TSR do a tubular manifold also but they have smaller diameter runners I believe.

The quality is such that you would hope they won't crack as happens on poorer quality tubular mani's.

 

[S3Alex]

The manifold is reassuringly solid,and beautifully welded.....

 

[Smirky]

The manifold is reassuringly solid,and beautifully welded.....

How much did the kit cost you Alex ? They don't list the price on there website

 

[S3Alex]

How much did the kit cost you Alex ? They don't list the price on there website

It's essentially the Golf R kit,and would be around £1400+ VAT.

Excluding the turbo and labour of course.....

 

[Smirky]

I see it comes with a new downpipe

 

[S3Alex]

I see it comes with a new downpipe

You need that for the big turbo plus wastegate.

 

[S3_Mat]

Im fairly sure the complete exhaust side including turbo + lines and gaskets and wastegate is in the region of 4k - you need supporting fueling mods such as injectors and LPFP + mapping. You need all stage 2+ hardware and uprate FPR and the topic of this conversation - intercooler.

 

[S3Alex]

Im fairly sure the complete exhaust side including turbo + lines and gaskets and wastegate is in the region of 4k - you need supporting fueling mods such as injectors and LPFP + mapping. You need all stage 2+ hardware and uprate FPR and the topic of this conversation - intercooler.

The price I gave was just the parts from Nortech.

My turbo was a further £1700 and of course the assorted bits may be extra depending on what you already have.

The turbo cost will be entirely dependent on the size and spec you require.

For instance I also needed the turbo inlet downpipe and some lines so my overall costs were approaching £4k but the original question was the manifold and downpipe price and I didn't add in the downpipe price either.

 

[S3Alex]

To put this another way the costs of a full big turbo conversion(not hybrid) if you include the kit,turbo,engine build plus extras such as fuelling and mapping plus labour would easily hit £10k

 

[s3_trev]

Did you buy the car from new Trev? What MY is yours?

Hey mate no I didnt, I bought it from a private seller with just under 10k on the clock. Its a 2009 so MY09 would that be?

 

[Smirky]

I think I'll stick at stage 2+ although u can stick a hybrid turbo on and get over the 400hp Mark?

 

[s3_trev]

To put this another way the costs of a full big turbo conversion(not hybrid) if you include the kit,turbo,engine build plus extras such as fuelling and mapping plus labour would easily hit £10k

 

[S3Alex]

I think I'll stick at stage 2+ although u can stick a hybrid turbo on and get over the 400hp Mark?

TTE420 would do the job nicely.

No need for an engine rebuild,or the sort of fuelling that mine has.

 

[S3Alex]

I stupidly added up the costs of my Nortech kit,the downpipe,hoses,injectors,pistons,rods,turbo,and all the trimmings,and that was the bottom line.....

 

[Smirky]

I stupidly added up the costs of my Nortech kit,the downpipe,hoses,injectors,pistons,rods,turbo,and all the trimmings,and that was the bottom line.....

Some serious cash but it's all relative if u earn ,150k a yr then it's not bad

 

[S3Alex]

Some serious cash but it's all relative if u earn ,150k a yr then it's not bad

It's best not to think of the costs.

The car NEEDS this.

Or do as I do and divide the costs by about 5 for public(I.e.partner's) consumption.

 

[Smirky]

It's best not to think of the costs.

The car NEEDS this.

Or do as I do and divide the costs by about 5 for public(I.e.partner's) consumption.

Lol tried that before she didn't believe me when I said its for both our enjoyment

 

[S3Alex]

Lol tried that before she didn't believe me when I said its for both our enjoyment

Luckily mine has no interest or understanding of the price of shiny bits of metal.

 

[Smirky]

Luckily mine has no interest or understanding of the price of shiny bits of metal.

She has no interest in the bits but sees the bills and says do you no how many handbags I could get with that

 

[S3Alex]

She has no interest in the bits but sees the bills and says do you no how many handbags I could get with that

Mine never sees the bills.
My best results were the Syvecs which never saw the light of day,and a pair of Krell amplifiers I bought some yrs ago.

To be fair,she doesn't go short of anything due to my own excesses.

 

[Smirky]

Mine never sees the bills.
My best results were the Syvecs which never saw the light of day,and a pair of Krell amplifiers I bought some yrs ago.

To be fair,she doesn't go short of anything due to my own excesses.

Yeah u have to keep em happy u get away with more just been looking at the tte420 I think that will be my route as its plug and play

 

[S3Alex]

Yeah u have to keep em happy u get away with more just been looking at the tte420 I think that will be my route as its plug and play

Have a word with Simon from TTE.

He's an excellent guy,and has a very good product on his hands,and plenty of happy customers here.

 

[Smirky]

Have a word with Simon from TTE.

He's an excellent guy,and has a very good product on his hands,and plenty of happy customers here.

Yeah there website is down at the mo to be honest it's quite a way off loads other stuff I wanna do first

 

[S3_Mat]

I have considered the TTE420 but I have a target of around 500hp. I will probably get the nortech kit and run a conservative boost level so as not exceed the kind of torque that bends rods but having plenty at the top end. If I feel the need for more midrange punch I'll have to do rods and pistons and up the boost.

 

[S3Alex]

I have considered the TTE420 but I have a target of around 500hp. I will probably get the nortech kit and run a conservative boost level so as not exceed the kind of torque that bends rods but having plenty at the top end. If I feel the need for more midrange punch I'll have to do rods and pistons and up the boost.

I would be very careful aiming at that sort of power as tailoring the torque isn't going to be that easy.

You might be OK using a GTX3071 but you'll also have to look at fuelling and also consider the injectors.
RS4s will give you the fuel flow you need but they do smoke as the fuel mixing is not great.

Even using the Syvecs on mine it proved impossible to get decent lambdas from them and we went to the 8 injector system I've got now.

You would also need an external boost controller and external wastegate and even custom tuners may be required as Revo software will support the power but maybe not your specific requirements and APR will not support it at all unless it's their kit.

 

[Smirky]

I have considered the TTE420 but I have a target of around 500hp. I will probably get the nortech kit and run a conservative boost level so as not exceed the kind of torque that bends rods but having plenty at the top end. If I feel the need for more midrange punch I'll have to do rods and pistons and up the boost.

Yeah it's a balancing act it's a massive jump cost wise from 400-420hp to get over the 500hp mark clutch could be an issue too if it's a daily driver in traffic

 

[S3Alex]

Yeah it's a balancing act it's a massive jump cost wise from 400-420hp to get over the 500hp mark clutch could be an issue too if it's a daily driver in traffic

Spec Stg3+ is a good choice.

Very solid easy to use in traffic and will not break.

 

[Smirky]

Spec Stg3+ is a good choice.

Very solid easy to use in traffic and will not break.

It's something I'm going to have to consider at stage 2+ with hybrid turbo in mind ,hoping standard clutch will cope with just stage 2

 

[S3_Mat]

Owens 3071 hta would be the turbo alex. I was going to ask you about injectors as im pretty sure you used s3 ones. Id give the car to statllers to tune i believe they use giac maps. Ive seen the 500hp modest boost maps and the dyno results look good and dont exceed 400lbs. Id do this then get a hpa inlet mani, do the rods and perhaps eek a bit more out. Id be happy with 480hp at the first stage tbh. I have a stage 3+ spec clutch, i was blown away how light the pedal is. It's fine in traffic only reverse is a bit juddery.

 

[S3Alex]

Owens 3071 hta would be the turbo alex. I was going to ask you about injectors as im pretty sure you used s3 ones. Id give the car to statllers to tune i believe they use giac maps. Ive seen the 500hp modest boost maps and the dyno results look good and dont exceed 400lbs. Id do this then get a hpa inlet mani, do the rods and perhaps eek a bit more out. Id be happy with 480hp at the first stage tbh. I have a stage 3+ spec clutch, i was blown away how light the pedal is. It's fine in traffic only reverse is a bit juddery.

The turbo choice sounds very sensible,and will help limit the torque.

Statlers do use GIAC maps,and get good results from them.

Inlet manifolds need to be chosen very carefully depending on your eventual aim.....if you don't aim on exceeding 500bhp,then the IE or HPA would be good choices.
Above that power,you would run into fuel flow issues with even RS4 injectors,as well as the smoking issues,and then a manifold that will allow an 8 injector setup is useful.

You then have two choices....HEP or Boulekos...I chose the latter.

If you do aim for that sort of power eventually,then you need also to factor in a way of running 8 injectors....Syvecs would be the best choice.

 

[Smirky]

I guessing the stage 3 spec clutch wouldn't be over kill for 400-425hp?

 

[S3_Mat]

If that is your end goal Smirky then the spec stage 2+ with an SMF would be a great clutch. For comparison I have a friend with a Helix clutch and his pedal feels like stepping on a granite breeze block compared to mine. After the first week of driving with it i did not even notice I had a performance clutch the only give away is the noise from the SMF which is only really apparent with the windows down and the AC on.

I chose the Spec 3+ with the intention of a big turbo build based on advice from Alex and KentKid on here and after trying some other S3's with other brand clutches i definitely made the right choice.

Alex - the HPA would be my choice as I am not looking to push the envelope so to speak with this build I will be stopping at 500hp or there abouts. I feel the 3071 is a happy medium between spool and top end. I considered the 76 or higher but you it appears I would need to do valve train and additional injectors like you suggested to get the most out of it. These are costs I would rather not incur and do not think the juice would be worth the squeeze for me personally. Your thread and advice has been invaluable and your build is just awesome.

 

[S3_Mat]

One thing to note with the TT420 Smirky is some people are seeing peak torque, depending on the map and other mods, at around 440lbs. This is right on the limit of the stage 2+ spec clutch but it should cope if you bed it in correctly.

 

[Smirky]

Yeah I have seen a few uploads of dyno runs with the tte420 and they seem to get pretty constant at 400-425 hp,I'd like high torque but would only really launch it once/twice a year at gti, hoping big ic will help get the maximum out of the tt420

 

[S3Alex]

If that is your end goal Smirky then the spec stage 2+ with an SMF would be a great clutch. For comparison I have a friend with a Helix clutch and his pedal feels like stepping on a granite breeze block compared to mine. After the first week of driving with it i did not even notice I had a performance clutch the only give away is the noise from the SMF which is only really apparent with the windows down and the AC on.

I chose the Spec 3+ with the intention of a big turbo build based on advice from Alex and KentKid on here and after trying some other S3's with other brand clutches i definitely made the right choice.

Alex - the HPA would be my choice as I am not looking to push the envelope so to speak with this build I will be stopping at 500hp or there abouts. I feel the 3071 is a happy medium between spool and top end. I considered the 76 or higher but you it appears I would need to do valve train and additional injectors like you suggested to get the most out of it. These are costs I would rather not incur and do not think the juice would be worth the squeeze for me personally. Your thread and advice has been invaluable and your build is just awesome.

My only comment on that would be that at each stage I said the same about not going further.

Think carefully about that,as it can save money if you eventually go nuts,by doing so in the first place.

OK....3071....I'm sure that Scott at Owens will give you excellent advice about which aspect ratios to choose,and which housings to use.
My first BT was a GT3071,and whilst it was OK,it hadn't got the edge of the better GTX3076 that followed,and to be honest,the current monster 3582 spools as quickly as either,thanks to the Tial turbine housing,and M-Spec parts.

I'm not suggesting those,but keep an open mind to all of Scott's advice.

I do feel that a 3071 might be getting to it's limits at 500bhp,but Owens will check that for you and ensure that a 3076 with smaller A/r might not work as well.