02M Build

[Andrew@A.L.D]

My car has developed over the years and the power level keeps rising. At first i wanted 400 but it broke that easy but had some issues that needed addressing, then i though 600 would be nice but never hit that due to maxing out 870cc injectors.. This was at around 531bhp but a snapped cam ended that engine.. The car has had a major rebuild and and i hope I've over engineered the engine as some of you have seen my that I've downed, welded and ARP'd everything in place.
Now the standard gearbox has held up well with over 500bhp and some crazy launches that resulted in snapped drive shafts and one prop shaft. It will only be time before the box S**ts its pants and lets go big time and it looks like a good time to do so as I've found a crack in the box. The plan was to change the ratio for higher top speeds but that plan has changed now due to a limited gearboxes out there with the ratios i like.

First mods are diffs, front, rear and ARP's to bolt them in.. I found that with over 500 bhp i could spin some of the wheels due to not having proper diffs

selector forks are a weak point as we all know

Other issues the 02M has is 4th gear

this is where this mod comes in

Quoted for another web site the above mod is for

The biggest weakness of the 02m gearboxes is the 4th gear.

There is the risk that with running high engine torque the input shaft vibration device and the shaft on the opposite side pushes the gear wheel pair off. The 4th gear does no longer runs correctly engaged. The result is that the 4th gear can break off!

The transition support works as follows:
Via an attached external aluminum housing is a brass mandrel pressed by means of a bolt against the shaft, there is formed a sliding bearing between the brass pin and the input shaft.

The preload is adjustable.

Ive also done this modification myself..

Why you ask

taken form a website that does the same modification

The biggest weakness in the 02M & 02Q gearbox is the 4th gear.

There is a danger that in high torque the input shaft unit in motion pushes the shaft characterized by the opposing shafts, and thus the gear wheel pair of the 4th gear is no longer correctly reciprocally running.
Consequence: the 4th gear breaks off!

Our full Billet shaft functions as follows:
By pressing a special steel core in the input shaft we reduce vibrations and the gears run into each other much cleaner.

I also did some research and found out that the input shaft is a tube that has a wall thickness of 4mm, this tube would start to bend at 10 tones, filling it in like above will make it a lot stronger so will start to bend at 30 tones of pressure.

Next modification is the end plate..

Why again

another copy and paste

One weaknesses of the 02M & 02Q Gearboxes is the cast transmission casing. This can become a major problem especially on vehicles with high torque figures. The problem is caused by high amounts of vibration being transferred through the gears. These vibrations can eventually lead to cracks in the casing and in worst cases, can break away completely leaving a gaping hole in the end of the casing. Usually this destroys all the internals rendering the whole gearbox scrap.

This Reinforcement Plate has been specifically designed from S355 high-strength steel to prevent this from happening

After experiencing this problem first hand with a few of our high powered diesels (including the Arosa) we highly recommend this modification for vehicles running 400ft/lbs+ (for petrol and diesel applications)

I did look into welding a plate to the end of the gearbox but the plate would need to be made out of magnesium ( gearbox has a lot of magnesium in it ) and trying to find some one to weld it is impossible.
Some people don't like the design of this end plate but the more i look at it from a engineers view its a good design, i could go into it but i think i write more info in here for most people..

Sorry but i don't have any pictures or info of the rear diff and it was dropped off with my gearbox man to fit, i won't be building the box myself as i will leave that to a pro

 

[<tuffty/>]

Links and part numbers?

I'll pad this thread out a bit when I get started on mine... Make it a decent gearbox guide if we can...

Nice work

<tuffty/>

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

All parts from Darkside Developments.

Billet input shaft mod from me at £100

 

[snowy]

what ratio setup have you gone with in the end ?

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

Something a tad longer than the S3, still on the look out for a Skoda gearbox that has the best ratios

 

[snowy]

diesel box 4x4 ?

 

[VAG-Slag]

Pretty impressive development...

Think I'm gonna call it Frankenbox!

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

diesel box 4x4 ?

I'm not going to give that info away. Sorry lol

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

I will need to look into updated drive shaft too

 

[snowy]

I'm not going to give that info away. Sorry lol

I have a Skoda with perfect ratio's for my use, was merely offering help to source

Heaved an O2J Octavia 4x4 into a biffa about 6months ago because you can't give them away

 

[<tuffty/>]

Parts list for reference...

Selector forks
http://www.darksidedevelopments.co....s.html?page_context=category&faceted_search=0

Reinforcement plate
http://www.darksidedevelopments.co....e.html?page_context=category&faceted_search=0

Input shaft support
http://www.darksidedevelopments.co....t.html?page_context=category&faceted_search=0

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

Some gear info (not sure if its complete tbh)

<tuffty/>

 

[S3Alex]

Nice one guys,and tufty/ for the parts info.

The Quaife will make a huge difference to traction,and I expect your mods will be a bit cheaper than the SQS kit?

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

Worth a sticky?

 

[<tuffty/>]

Worth a sticky?

Done.... In the FAQs sticky, Performance Enhancements > 02M Gearbox modding information

<tuffty/>

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

I'm sure you will add to it. I'll see if I can find the guide that shows you how to strip them down.

 

[Gops]

That'll be great. I have a gearbox lying around so would be cool to know what to do :thumbsup:

 

[newbster]

there are some links in here to strip down

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=419945

workshop manual

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswa..._drive/technical_data/gearbox_identification/

discussion on preload

http://forums.thecarlounge.com/showthread.php?5690818-02M-preload-info-for-Dub-Nub

the vw workshop manual says you need two people to remove the output shafts together, I found that you can do it on your own if you put a wedge under the reverse selector fork, so that it stays in reverse, then tilt the crown wheel away from the 1-4 output shaft, you can take out the 1-4 shaft on its own.

it really is a breeze to strip

the hardest part is getting the selector tower in and out.

the bottom bearing for the tower is held in place by a bolt through a locating bung. you need to push the bolt in by the amount that the bung is pulled out, so that the bottom of the tower stays in the same position, otherwise it locks up. Its clearer when your see it

 

[newbster]

b*****x can't edit
where ever it says input shaft in post above, change to output shaft doh!

 

[<tuffty/>]

b*****x can't edit
where ever it says input shaft in post above, change to output shaft doh!

every instance?

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

PM me the corrected text and I'll change it then delete these posts to make it look like it never happened

<tuffty/>

 

[Alex C]

either way it's a layshaft?

 

[newbster]

@<tuffty/> - yes every instance, there's only 3 places - thanks
@alex VW call then main shafts 02m self study guide http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_205.pdf

layshaft not really used as much on FWD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layshaft

the "gearbox revitaliser" I sent off for should be here today. lets see if it cures my noises, I give it a 10% chance based on internet research


just for interest close up of the failure for 1/2 fork, note that there are two locating pegs for the missing fork, and the surface of the rivet does not show stress or fatigue, I don't think banging into gear cause this, as seen by old grannies having the same issue
I think its just badly specified rivet, or the sub contract manufacturer skimping on the material
and all those little notches in the gears are supposed to be there

 

[Sam_]

I created a similar thread a while back that died off. Might be some useful links in there. I posted those parts too. They're made by Epytec. Might be cheaper going direct.

http://www.epytec.de/motor-und-getr...-4-corrado-scirocco-vr6-g60-turbo-1-8t?c=1823

http://www.epytec.de/detail/index/sArticle/3144

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

A copy and paste from Vortex

How to strip a the box

Drain fluid

02M/Haldex trans (your sig says you have a TT) - remove bevel box (rear wheel angle drive)
--You will need a long reach 6mm allen key there is a hex head bolt deep inside the passenger axle cup that needs to be removed. Slide axle cup assembly out. If you don't have a long reach 6mm just cut a key in half and JB weld it into a 6mm socket + long 1/4 drive extension.
--Remove four bolts that hold angle drive to trans case.

Remove the gear selector rod
--2x 13mm bolts on top of the trans case.
--Spin the cover you just loosened and CAREFULLY pry up on each corner until it pops off. There is a plastic bearing with rubber seal in this cap. When reassembling do not force this part on. You will break the bearing.
--Remove lower cap on front of transmission. This secures the lower half of the gear selector in place.
----There are 3x 13mm bolts on it. You need to remove the two short bolts on the outside. The middle bolt should be loosened then tapped with a hammer until the cap pops out of the transmission case.
--There is one T45 or so torx bolt towards the top of the shift tower to remove.
--You should now be able to pull the shift mechanism out you're going to have to spin it - try to remember what directions you went and when. Getting it back in requires proper use of four letter words and lots of

/patience

Remove 13mm bolts to split the case.
--I would recommend removing the ones inside the bell housing first -- double check, some will hide under clutch dust/poor lighting.
--Flip the trans case with the bellhousing / input shaft down and remove the rest of the 13mm bolts
--The outside of the case should now cleanly lift off leaving the gears/shift forks/diff inside the bellhousing. See picture below.


Shift forks are bronze in color in this photo. My advice would be to bribe two friends to come over at this point with promise of alcohol and loose women. I've never just tried to pull a shift fork out but I get the feeling you're going to have to lift the gear stack up a little bit. This is most easily accomplished with four hands holding the gears/shift forks together and pulling straight up the minimal amount of distance you need to slide a shift fork out and back in. Wear gloves. Don't get **** in the case. If for some reason you're reading this and working on an R32 transmission be aware that they are slightly different and have shims/bearings that are removable on the inside. I would strongly consider replacing them at this point.

Before reassembly clean the surfaces of the case and use your oil resistant sealant of choice. RTV black seemed to work for me. I'm sure some $20 OEM sealant works just as well or if you're "631 corrado" then use Honda Bond and only Honda Bond.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Info from a post on Gops's thread...

So I'm dropping the car off to bill this weekend so he can finish off some tweeks here and there and hopefully map when he can squeeze it in.

Recently I've been thinking about the gearbox and its internals. Having a quick read through this site : http://www.vwsyncro.co.uk/data/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2309

Gives some good info for a novice like me. I've no clue when it comes to gearboxes but something seems so mesmerising with them and since I have a spare lying around, I wanted to mess around with that! Now il thinking that will be the box I would like to get done to include some good internals and I'm not really the one to do that (let's be honest). Although I still want to disassemble one to learn more about one.

Anyways that site suggests different 5-6th final drives with higher top speeds. One being 320kmh at 7000rpm which suits a big turbo car better but I'm not sure what other implications this will have on the drive of the car. I think it's the tdi final drive.

Also suggests some updated selector forks and reinforced plates which I have no clue if they're actually needed.

I also found these for some who desire abit of late night reading


Does anyone know if this info will be any good?

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_206.pdf

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_205.pdf

<tuffty/>

 

[Gops]

The ERF gearbox final drive has a theoretical top speed of 320kph at 7k. This is something some guys do on r32 forums. Others tend to use the 2.8 4motion boxes due to it being longer? Interesting read that link

 

[Miguel_S#]

nice topic

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

Been told not to use that gear set

4th, 5th & 6th will last forever as they will never get used on the track

 

[Gops]

Been told not to use that gear set

4th, 5th & 6th will last forever as they will never get used on the track

The ERF one? Or the 2.8? I'm not sure on the differences lol.

 

[Prawn]

Daft question: can the s3 box not already achieve 180mph on stock ratios?

If top speed is sufficient, I still struggle to see why fitting taller ratios could ever be considered a positive in a performance car

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

Yes the S3 can do 180 in 6th and i have done it many times

The ERF is the one to stay away from

Ive gone for one that a tad longer than the S3 so i hope to get 190mph out of it and pass the 1/4 mile in gear rather than change before the line

 

[superkarl]

If top speed is sufficient, I still struggle to see why fitting taller ratios could ever be considered a positive in a performance car

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Prawn]

Aside from Andrews personal goals of 190+, regardless of power, I think anyone else who doesn't plan to regularly exceed 180mph has to be bonkers to consider it.

 

[Gops]

Aside from Andrews personal goals of 190+, regardless of power, I think anyone else who doesn't plan to regularly exceed 180mph has to be bonkers to consider it.

200mph just sounds like fun!

 

[snowy]

Aside from Andrews personal goals of 190+, regardless of power, I think anyone else who doesn't plan to regularly exceed 180mph has to be bonkers to consider it.

This is down to your lack of experience though

Sorry to have to be blunt

 

[Prawn]

You're going to have to explain that to me then Snowy.

In performance terms, forgetting economy and cruising comfort, I can't fathom out why you'd want anything but the closest possible gear set with the shortest ratios that will allow you to teach your desired top speed.

I'm genuinely open to discussion if there is some vital part im missing

 

[snowy]

Its about matching gear ranges to engine power output

Its about being about able to hold gears longer for greater traction

Its about flexibility for fast real world driving where you might well be forced to change down not up, etc

You need to experience in the real world - I know full well the theory goes short ratio is faster - but theory and reality don't always match on this platform IME

 

[Gops]

I think on higher powered cars it makes more sense. Longer gears will help spread that power with better traction. 5th and 6th is what I was looking to change for higher top speeds as one day I want to go to vmax 200. But overall I think it will help higher posted cars become more drivable. It's a learning curve for me so I'm open to education on this topic.

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

R32 turbo boys and girls do it as they can produce more torque than use with are 2.0/2.1

There are better gearboxes out there.