2008cc 20 Valve Turbo Stroker Build

crazy88

Loving the anonymity
Wow, this thread is great...good work on the project. I am rather excited to see the dyno'd engine!
 

david_phillips95

Registered User
brilliant read :) keep up the good work :applaus:
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Thanks for your comments guys, a bit of encouragement always helps. It amazes me how lazy i can be with this project considering I cannot wait to drive the **** out of it!

Mattfaced I have no idea what problems im going to encounter with this motor, I have done a fair bit of research about though and they do seem fairly stout, that said I have seen a good number fail also but im hoping that i have learnt from others and will do everything possible to avoid the usual failures, most motors die becasue the keyway on the crank timing pulley shears off losing the timing and its game over. I have dowel pinned my pulley to the crank so if the keyway shears the dowel will keep the timing. My other concern is for the gearbox, although again these have been used on some serious horsepower drag cars. Im sure with a little mechanical sympathy it should hold up just fine.

Progress has been slow since its getting cold and dark at night now, I have just bought myself a TIG welder which Ive been meaning to buy for a long time now, this will enable me to construct the exhaust piping and the intercooler charge piping once the weather permits. Im hoping to get this lot finished, tuned and rolling before summer! Lots to do still but Ive broken the back of it now so it should come together fairly quickly.
 

Foxmeister

Fired Up!
Cracking detail and work goin into this mate, keep up the good work.

Know wot u mean about getting lazy, ive got wheels to paint, bodywork and kit to prep, etc etc and really want to see it cum together but cant seem to muster the energy sumtimes!:uhm:

How did you make the carbon interior pieces? Did you skin these parts or are they done completely in a mould etc???
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Sorry for the lack of response I've been a tad busy with all this Christmas stuff!

Spyrious - Stay Tuned more is on the way! In the New Year this thing is going to get finished and as usual I will take loads of pictures

Foxmeister - Thanks for the kind words, Crazy how lame I can be! Chucked loads of cash at this project so far and the car itself has hardly changed. I find it easy to get lazy with the cold nights and the fact im slowly getting addicted to Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2!

On a positive note I have been negotiating the use of a large heated workshop so I can crack on in the New Year and get this project moving again, My plan is to take the Audi off the road while I complete the rest of the work, I reckon a couple of months and i can have this lot done.

The CF interior bits are skinned original parts, why do you ask? Are you going to do the same?
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Small update! I have now received the front snub mount and bracket as well as the turbo oil & coolant lines from the states, many thanks Issam for sorting that out.

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My only concern with the hoses are weather I can clock the turbo correctly to keep the oil way axis vertical, its all a bit tight under there! The other thing is don't want the hoses resting on the manifold without some kind of heatshield to protect them, anyone got any ideas what to use?

Im hoping to get this project moving again now Christmas and New Year are out the way! I will be ordering all the seals, gaskets, oil pump, head chain tensioner nuts and bolts I need to finish the motor next week.

Issam I've heard it said that the 1.8T rear crank seal doesn't seal all that well on these 92.8mm cranks, do you know if the crank seal from the parent engine would fit the 058 block? Or any other suggestions?

I need to order up some more parts fairly soon:-

Intercooler set up - Anyone any suggestions, I could buy the cooler and fabricate the piping myself but this will take time, a complete kit would be better something like the Evolution Racewerks item looks favourite.

ECU - Thanks to Jack for sourcing me a 034 stage IIc ECU, just need a loom now, i was wondering if i could use the loom 034 sells for the AEB motors with this ecu and run sequential ignition? Don't like the sound of 7100rpm red line! Also what do I need for the wideband with the 034 ECU, Issam please educate me on the options here.

Fuel pump, regulator and injectors - I was going to use the 034 Motorsport intank 044 Bosch unit again for simplicity of installation. What regulators would you recommend and which injector type do i need for the 034 Ecu? Low or high impedance? what size also i was thinking 840cc?

One last thing, whats the word on these Fluidamper pulleys Issam? Are they worth the $? I have read alot of threads where engines have vibrated to pieces, do these pulleys really help that much?

Sorry for all the questions!
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Done so mate, been working on them the last month. Just wondered if somebody had actually done moulds etc as i just skinned my parts also.

Doing some more parts soon.

Good work! Its not easy though is it! But practice makes perfect. The one thing that I found helps more than anything is the temperature your working in, if its cold or humid then your buggered. Have you noticed any milky patches in your finish?
 

Foxmeister

Fired Up!
Good work! Its not easy though is it! But practice makes perfect. The one thing that I found helps more than anything is the temperature your working in, if its cold or humid then your buggered. Have you noticed any milky patches in your finish?

Not easy at all mate, very time consuming also but i love the stuff!

True with the temp also, had been doin mine in the garage there but with it being so cold i had to do some of it in the house.

Managed to complete everything without any milky patches, i found using a hairdryer after each application of topcoat helps to clear the small air bubbles which cause the milky appearance. Also, i tend to apply one or two more topcoats than is advised, this gives more material to rub down at the end to flat parts out and more chance of sanding away any air trapped near the surface. Get some more pics up of your other stuff, looks good. Mine are in the thread in the project room if u want a butchers!:thumbsup:
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Not easy at all mate, very time consuming also but i love the stuff!

True with the temp also, had been doin mine in the garage there but with it being so cold i had to do some of it in the house.

Managed to complete everything without any milky patches, i found using a hairdryer after each application of topcoat helps to clear the small air bubbles which cause the milky appearance. Also, i tend to apply one or two more topcoats than is advised, this gives more material to rub down at the end to flat parts out and more chance of sanding away any air trapped near the surface. Get some more pics up of your other stuff, looks good. Mine are in the thread in the project room if u want a butchers!:thumbsup:

Very time consuming indeed! All that flatting back will eventually make you insane.:jester:

The milky appearance is caused by the excessive moisture in your working environment which reacts with the air and the epoxy obviously its known widely as an amine blush, proper nightmare really. I made a small oven out of a cardboard box with a single 60 watt bulb in it, insulated under some blankets (sounds dangerous I know) but this works a treat, leave everything to cure in there and jobs a good'an. I will be sure to check out your progress in your thread and i will post up some pic's of some of the stuff I've done later, need to clean the car! I quickly moved away from skinning because of all the sanding, working from moulds is the way forward i think as the carbon looks so different out of a mould. I intend to re-do the parts I've done at some point by making moulds for everything. Which epoxy system do you use?
 

Foxmeister

Fired Up!
Very time consuming indeed! All that flatting back will eventually make you insane.:jester:

The milky appearance is caused by the excessive moisture in your working environment which reacts with the air and the epoxy obviously its known widely as an amine blush, proper nightmare really. I made a small oven out of a cardboard box with a single 60 watt bulb in it, insulated under some blankets (sounds dangerous I know) but this works a treat, leave everything to cure in there and jobs a good'an. I will be sure to check out your progress in your thread and i will post up some pic's of some of the stuff I've done later, need to clean the car! I quickly moved away from skinning because of all the sanding, working from moulds is the way forward i think as the carbon looks so different out of a mould. I intend to re-do the parts I've done at some point by making moulds for everything. Which epoxy system do you use?

Good idea about the oven:idea:, maybe try make one myself at sumpoint.:icon_thumright:

Im still using the original kit that i started with from Carbonmods, but found a different supplier for carbon that ive since bought and will look for individual resins etc when needed as i wont be needing a complete kit all the time.
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Well grab those proper light bulbs while you can! Someone somewhere decided to stop making them. They don't seem to last that long either and go a bit brittle after getting pretty hot so watch those fingers! Next your gonna want a vac pump and some moulds! Checked your thread out, shits looking good fella.:thumbsup:

I better get my finger out!
 

Foxmeister

Fired Up!
Well grab those proper light bulbs while you can! Someone somewhere decided to stop making them. They don't seem to last that long either and go a bit brittle after getting pretty hot so watch those fingers! Next your gonna want a vac pump and some moulds! Checked your thread out, shits looking good fella.:thumbsup:

I better get my finger out!

Cheers mate.

Yep, gonna look into wot i can do with moulds in the future, really interested in goin that route aswell. Will get some more done soon as the weather decides to stay above freezing!
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Well now its above freezing I've been in the garage sorting a few little problems out, number one was to sort out the three bottom exhaust manifold studs that were stopping me mounting the manifold up. Had them turned down to make this a bit easier to do! Did the same with the back two turbo to manifold studs as they were a nightmare to get the nuts on.

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Need to wrap the downpipe and fit heat sleeves over the turbo hoses that are resting on the manifold, ordering all the other gaskets, seals and sensors from Audi on Saturday to finish this motor off until it goes in the chassis.

Next task for me is to sort the wiring! Please tell me someone can help? Anyone have a wiring diagram?
 

satans child

project...satans child
bud .. get some oil wiped on that manifold and your turbine housing before it goes even more rusty..:thumbsup:
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Good shout fella, don't know why I didn't think of that :think: In fact I'm going to do it right now!
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Diagram for which bit?
All the sections are seperatly shown in ELSAWin

The ECU pinout would be a great help. Where can i get a copy of ELSAWin?
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Sorry for the lack of activity, I really have been run off my feet the last few months. Anyway I've still found the time here and there to keep the project moving along.

Since the last progress post I've stripped the motor down again and got busy with the die grinder to gain a bit more clearance in the block, I just wasn't comfortable with it. I'm more than confident now its right, I sleep easy!

So the motors built back up again now all sealed up, I've also dowel pinned my timing pulley to the end of the crank. That should keep the ****** in place should the key shear on the back of the pulley, which seems to happen when you push these motors.

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I had to fabricate my own pulley holding tool so I could properly torque the crank bolt on, worked a treat!

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So the motor is as good as built and ready, just needs a chassis to go in now! The A4 has been retired from it's daily duties and its being stripped down.

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So I've pulled the engine, gearbox, drive shafts, hub carriers, brakes, ECU loom, subframe, control arms, ARB etc etc. I'm hoping to have it re-assembled by the end of the week depending on the weather, won't be ready to turn the key but I feel its a major milestone in the project to get the lump in there, can't wait to see it start coming together, but then I have to strip everything out of the back end!

Now can anyone tell me the effect of removing my AC, I never use it and don't really want it but will my heater still work?

Also when I removed the ECU loom and ECU I found 4 plugs under the ECU, can anyone tell me what each one is for so I can work out the pin outs, I don't intend using any of the original loom as it can't be separated out easily, It will look far neater making a new one from scratch I think.

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More updates soon.
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Well another busy day and thankfully no rain! Was actually a good day for it so got through a few horrible jobs. Removed all the rust and horrible crap from the subframe and tarted it up a bit, I also removed the very soft rubber mounts and replaced them with some billet alloy bushes from 034 Motorsport. They should help to sharpen up the handling together with the fully polybushed control arms, sorry I forgot to take pic's before I started you'll just have to believe me it looks a million times better.

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In between applying god knows how many coats of paint to the subframe amongst other things I got stuck into the engine bay. I removed all the stuff I won't be using in the final set up but still can't remove the ****** exhaust! Tough job when you work alone I guess. With everything out the way I set to removing 10 years of horrible thick oily sludge, gave me headache with all the paint and degreaser fumes, never the less I got through it all and I'm happy with how its turned out.

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Hopefully tomorrow will be just as favourable as today and I can fit the subframe and lower control arms. Next job is to split the engine and box and get the gearbox cleaned up and ready to fit later in the week. I have this coming week off work so I'm hoping to get through alot of stuff I need to do. I wanna drive this thing badly, but don't want to cut corners at the last minute.

Anyone have any idea what those 4 plugs are for? Also does anyone know the ARP flywheel bolt torque specs? Issam can't you chime in here and help me out.

More updates tomorrow weather permitting!

Feel free to comment.
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Another productive day, things are moving along quite nicely. I managed to fit the subframe and torque it in along with the lower control arms, I also fitted the ARB & 034 Motorsport engine mounts.

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That lot fitted I removed the gearbox and started cleaning it down, manage to slice my thumb open quite well on the bell housing which I was chuffed with! Still manage to clean off quite a bit of crap.

Before cleaning
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And after
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So on the list of jobs for tomorrow:-

  • Paint the gearbox and brackets etc
  • Fit the flywheel to the built motor
  • Swap the cams over
  • Sort the drive shafts out, S4 outer CV & A4 Inner CV. I was going to change the gearbox flanges and just run the S4 driveshafts but I can imagine swapping them is a lot of hard work. That said anyone know how to remove the outer CV's from the driveshafts?
  • Tidy up the S4 hub carriers as their rusty as hell.
  • Remove the ****** exhaust system, hopefully third time is lucky!
  • If I've any energy left after that lot I will mate the built motor to the gearbox ready for install on Tuesday
Tomorrow is forecast for rain so lets see what happens, Might just have to break out the marquee if it persists!
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
OK today's progress update:-

Gearbox is painted and ready for fitting tomorrow, can't be ***** fitting them up tonight!

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Another big day for the project, the built motor is finally off the engine stand and ready for the gearbox. Doesn't sound like much I know but it has been on that stand for just over a year now and feels good to see it move a step closer to the engine bay, got the flywheel & clutch fitted decided to loctite my flywheel bolts in.

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Made a start at removing the cams from the old motor, I plan to run these for a while in the built motor, at least till its broken in. Can't justify spending all that cash on cams when I don't even know if it runs! Anyway I was stopped in my tracks when I couldn't find my cam chain tensioner tool. Going to pop down to Audi tomorrow and hope they have one I can have / borrow! Hopefully get the gearbox and motor together tomorrow and in the car!

Was a bit lazy today didn't get through as much as I would like but there's always tomorrow, looks like more rain though!
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Update.

Today I got busy putting everything together and hoped to get it all fitted into the car, the rain stopped me getting it fitted as well as a few other issues.

Stock Gearbox mounts Vs 034 Density line Gearbox mounts. Notice the lack of voids in the mount, there also made from a harder rubber.

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Gearbox bolted up, bit of a nightmare!

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Then the problem's started, I fitted up the 034 Motorsport downpipe, the sprung gearbox bracket didn't line up, was about an inch short. So I decided to modify the bracket by welding in another inch, luckily I had the right material lying around, problem solved.

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I always knew this was going to be a problem but wanted to fit it to the car before I decide on the best way to fix it. Well here's the problem:-

Bit of gap that, I can get it to align a bit better but there's still a 10-15mm gap!

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Now do I:-

A) Bolt up the flanges and let the flex joint take one in the ***?
B) Use another flange I have somewhere as a spacer plate, this means two gaskets instead of one.
C) Cut the flange off and weld in a 10-15mm section of pipe which will look gash

What to do ,what to do.........

Right then can someone also please put my mind at ease, the engine has become harder to turnover after the clutch and flywheel have been installed, is this right? In my mind the friction plate is squashed between the flywheel & pressure plate making it harder but can someone please chime in on this one.
 

Broken Byzan

Photographic Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
VCDS Map User
I would definatly use a spacer and 2 gaskets if it were me.

I would imagine the engine is harder due to you now having to turn the mass of a flywheel and clutsh assy, thats all, as long as it turns reasonably free it's all good.
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Thanks Mark, it always helps to hear it from some one else.

I've been having a think about this downpipe, I think I may just use the other flange to space it out and two gaskets to seal, not very elegant but it will have to do for now.

Right I'm off to go and get this motor in the car!
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Well after a morning of running around to find a second wastegate gasket and dropping off my spare 38mm flange to be skimmed at the local machine shop, I got home and threw everything together. After a bit of jiggery pokery it slotted right in. I have to say it feels really good to see the engine in place in the car after all this time, looks damn good too I have to say.

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Tomorrow I plan to sort the driveshafts out and get them fitted, I need a pair of wheel bearings for the S4 front uprights to get it back on its wheels. I called PW europarts this morning and the bloke wasn't to helpful, He wouldn't do anything unless I had the S4's reg number (which I don't) or gave him the Audi part number (haven't a clue). Can someone help me out, how many different wheel bearings can there be for a pre-facelift 98 S4 with steel uprights?

I'm also going to finish removing the cams from the old motor, can this be done without that tool for the cam chain tensioner as I still can't find it?
 

Broken Byzan

Photographic Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
VCDS Map User
You got the part numbers of the uprights, i can check for you. I am sure there is one 82mm one, but will check for 100%. As i had an odd 75mm one on my old car ???

The cams can be removed easily enough without the tensioner thingy, refitting won't be so easy without it.
 

aragorn

"Stick a V8 in it!"
Staff member
Moderator
VCDS Map User
Give jason at AllGermanParts a call.

Spot on bloke and has sorted me out a few times.

There are only two bearings 75mm and 82mm, you need the larger ones.

4B0498625A
wheel bearing with mounting parts
82MM / AJL,APR,AQD, ATX,APZ,ARJ, APS,AFB,AKN, AGB,ATJ,AMX, AZB
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
You got the part numbers of the uprights, i can check for you. I am sure there is one 82mm one, but will check for 100%. As i had an odd 75mm one on my old car ???

The cams can be removed easily enough without the tensioner thingy, refitting won't be so easy without it.

I can post the upright numbers tomorrow as I've just locked everything up, are those dimensions the OD's? I'm pretty sure there 75mm to be honest, I get the feeling the A4 shafts would probably fit without any buggering about with CV's, problem is I removed the shafts still connected to the uprights, will be easier to swap the CV's now! I'm sure you've mentioned before there was a chance of that A4 shafts would fit, oh well.

I guess I will just have to get another tool then, I hate struggling to do a job without the right tool.

Cheers Mark
 

Broken Byzan

Photographic Moderator
Staff member
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You will need to use the S4 shafts with 2wd gearbox output flanges on the gearbox iirc.


"Thoughts" if your car was originally a TQS it will have been equiped with the larger bearing which means your TQS shafts will be fine to use with the S4 uprights, direct fit !!!
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Oh poo, I was hoping to pull the outer S4 CV's off and mate them to the A4 shafts keeping the original inner CV's i believe this can be done?. I have the correct gearbox flanges for the S4 shafts but is it a nightmare to swap them, can't see them coming out easily or going back in.

I think your right though, the original shafts would probably fit directly to the S4 uprights I have.

My preferred option at the moment is using the S4 outer CV's onto the A4 shaft, im assuming this will work i.e. the spline on the shafts being the same?
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Give jason at AllGermanParts a call.

Spot on bloke and has sorted me out a few times.

There are only two bearings 75mm and 82mm, you need the larger ones.

4B0498625A
wheel bearing with mounting parts
82MM / AJL,APR,AQD, ATX,APZ,ARJ, APS,AFB,AKN, AGB,ATJ,AMX, AZB


Cheers fella, I didn't see your post earlier, must have missed it somehow! I will give them a call tomorrow for sure. I haven't forgotten I still owe you a ride in this thing!
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
"Thoughts" if your car was originally a TQS it will have been equiped with the larger bearing which means your TQS shafts will be fine to use with the S4 uprights, direct fit !!!

Well after a morning of covering myself in CV grease and trying all possible combinations of S4 CV's, A4 CV's and shafts nothing worked. The problem I had was that the A4 outer CV's were still bolted to the uprights as I thought I didn't need any of it. Plus I cut the upper control arms off as I couldnt be bothered wrestling the pinch bolts out all day, so therefore I cant bolt them to the car to undo the hub bolt! So the only combination I couldn't try was original TQS complete drive shafts. After 10 minutes of head scratching I came up with this solution, not the best idea but it worked and it was a damn sight easier than undoing the bolt :)

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Worked a treat, needless to say Mark was right all along. The original TQS shafts are a direct fit. The S4 wheel bearings I have are identical to the A4 TQS at 75mm, must have the same odd S4 uprights that you had Mark, Turns out your right again though. For anyone who might want to know the part numbers of the S4 uprights I have are 4B3 407 257/8 A. These uprights will allow a direct fit to an A4 TQS, then S4 or RS4 brakes are a direct fit at least on my car. (I couldn't find this info anywhere)

At least that makes ordering the wheel bearings & CV boots easy, I can use my own reg number now!
 
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Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Update.

Earls order finally arrived this morning, the lead time on these fittings was extended to say the least! Never the less there here. I ordered the Ano-tuff fittings because I don't really dig the blue / red ones.

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So my intention was to complete all the fuel plumbing in the bay today, I got the first hose finished and fitted but couldn't decide where to mount the Aeromotive FPR. In my mind I was going to fit it directly to the fuel rail but it doesn't fit under the bonnet unless I remove the sound deadening and had it at a strange angle, I then thought the bulkhead would be a good idea, but in reality doesn't work all that great due to lack of space. So having a poke around the bay it would work nicely where the stock airbox fits but this is some distance from the fuel rail I wonder weather this will truly compromise its effectiveness. So at the moment im undecided what to do, all suggestions are welcome.

I got the turbo oil return line fitted, the turbo lines and fittings were all supplied by 034 Motorsport, Can't say im overly impressed with there supplied solution, which is usually the case! May be my expectation is to great. Let's see what you guys think.

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Not sure how well that will drain! I've heard back pressure on the oil return of a Garrett GT series turbo isn't desirable. But lets see what happens when it runs, Do I worry about these details too much?

Anyway I cracked on with more stuff that needs sorting, I pulled the cams and fitted them into the car. Another step closer to being turn the key ready.

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Ordered the tensioner tool from Audi today amongst other things, the wheel bearings and CV boot kits are also en-route from PW europarts, ****** forgot to order my timing belt kit though didn't I :banghead:

Its been a hard week and I'm knackered now, tomorrow I will fit the in-tank Bosch 044 fuel pump and call it a day I think, might push the boat out and get my Innovate LC1 wideband & XD-16 gauge fitted.
 

Talkwrench

Hoonigan
Well as anticipated a lazy day today, I did manage to get the fuel pumps swapped over though amongst a few other little bits here and there. Couldn't believe the difference in size of the fuel pumps when I got the stock unit out. I'm sure this Bosch motorsport pump is going to make it's presence known when I turn the key, should do the business though.

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Why on earth can't I seem to resize my pics through photobucket without reasonable success? Doing my head in!
 
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