2007 S3 (BHZ) Intermittent Start Up Issue

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
The eventual problem was found by logging my car Vs another S3 and looking for differences

Cheers Alex, I think that logging it will be the only way to find out for sure now, probably the step I should've just started with to be honest..

Fuel filter been changed?

Also, how many cranks we talking? Try get a vid?

I had a pretty extensive service done last year of which changing the fuel filter should've been done as part of this? I will check the documentation when I get home tonight though to make sure.

I only have one video which isn't the best as I'm in a car park and there's a diesel with its engine running next to me but you can just make mine out after a couple of watches as you hear it struggling and see the rev needle stuttering prior to starting. I'll try and get a better one but it's so hard as its fine most of the time and only has difficulty sometimes, there's no clear pattern. I'll upload the video to Youtube and will link it to here after this post and as you'll see, it cranks over between 2-3 seconds before finally starting.

A random shot in the dark.
I had issues with starting on my 08 S3. Turns out the timing was slightly out. Alex at AKS found it when it went to be mapped. A pin in one of the pulleys had broke and caused the pulley to slip out of place a touch. Very relieved he found it and didn't cause any permanent damage (as far as I'm aware). Anyway since it was fixed the car starts without problem whether it's hot or cold.

Interesting to know, thanks for the information mate, I'll make sure to tell the guys at Storm absolutely everything I know.

Cheers for the help guys, appreciate it.
 

kash_v

Registered User
If its 2-3 secs sounds pretty much like mine.

My first morning start sometimes takes a little longer. The push to start wont make it start any faster, may even make it a little longer as its flywheel will be engaged ( i have it fitted on mine noticed it ever so slightly)

Check out a Mclaren F1 start or a 675LT they were designed to have a long turnover on purpose lol.
 

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
If its 2-3 secs sounds pretty much like mine.

My first morning start sometimes takes a little longer. The push to start wont make it start any faster, may even make it a little longer as its flywheel will be engaged ( i have it fitted on mine noticed it ever so slightly)

Check out a Mclaren F1 start or a 675LT they were designed to have a long turnover on purpose lol.

Your S3 takes that amount of time on every start-up? Knowing that 95+% of the time mine starts normally i.e. no delay and that all other S3's I've seen in person and most others on here have no delay, then that makes me think something is definitely wrong, especially as its so inconsistent.

Video is on my old phone so will get that online later.
 

kash_v

Registered User
Ill time it tomorrow lol.


Yeah get the vids up. A friends 2010 DSG s3 did start faster then mine, but not by much.

If its concerning you alot, when you get it to rtech - Niki will check the timing so csn let you know if its out.

A good VAG garage maybe able check too.
 

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
Apologies for the cr@p video (used my phone and there's another engine running along side me) but it's the best I've got for now, you'll need the volume turned up max to hear properly.

 

prt57

Registered User
If its 2-3 secs sounds pretty much like mine.

My first morning start sometimes takes a little longer. The push to start wont make it start any faster, may even make it a little longer as its flywheel will be engaged ( i have it fitted on mine noticed it ever so slightly

The flywheel is always "engaged" as it is bolted to the end of the crankshaft.

With the push clutch to start delete, any cogs and shafts relating to neutral will be now be turning in the gearbox giving slightly more loading as you turn the key.
 

Rob C

Audi Owner
I have a similar issue that happens very rarely only on cold starts and like kash its probably only half the length of yours. Will be interested to see how yours is resolved.
 

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
Has the belt been done did you say?

Yeah I had the cam belt & waterpump done as well as the cam chain & tensioner during summer last year.

Check this thread -

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/2-0-tfsi-hard-starting.150951/

They mention coil packs/in tank fuel pump sensor.

Nice one that in tank fuel pump sensor is something I've not come across before and his issue sounds very similar to mine, so I'll look in it and mention all of this to Storm. Thanks for your help kash, it's much appreciated.

Edit:

I checked the paper work from my service last year and the fuel filter wasn't replaced, I'll check the documents prior to my ownership to see if it's ever been replaced. If not, is this something worth changing then in relation to this?

I've also been looking on a Ross-Tech thread where an A3 2L TFSI owner had similar problems and saw on a BMW forum that Shell V-Power Nitro+ (99 ron) was the cause of their troubles (apparently a higher ron (octane) rating makes it harder to combust). He switched to Esso Supreme (97 ron) and the problem went away. Now this isn't relevant to me as I used to run Esso Supreme from May 15 - March 16 and had the problem the same amount compared to running Shell V-Power Nitro+, plus my car has been mapped for it but thought it might be worth mentioning to others just in case.

I have a similar issue that happens very rarely only on cold starts and like kash its probably only half the length of yours. Will be interested to see how yours is resolved.

Sure thing, I'll update this thread as and when things progress.
 
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Rob C

Audi Owner
I've also been looking on a Ross-Tech thread where an A3 2L TFSI owner had similar problems and saw on a BMW forum that Shell V-Power Nitro+ (99 ron) was the cause of their troubles (apparently a higher ron (octane) rating makes it harder to combust). He switched to Esso Supreme (97 ron) and the problem went away. Now this isn't relevant to me as I used to run Esso Supreme from May 15 - March 16 and had the problem the same amount compared to running Shell V-Power Nitro+, plus my car has been mapped for it but thought it might be worth mentioning to others just in case.

Interesting to know as I always run mine on V-Power as my closest petrol station is Shell
 

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
I've been looking some more online to do with the fuel pump control module (1K0 906 093 H) and found a good link for owners of 2L TFSI engines: http://shopdap.com/common-problems-to-look-out-for-on-the-vw-and-audi-2-0t-fsi-engine/.

One of the problems mentioned is to do with the the fuel pump control module, which is affected more by heat: http://shopdap.com/2-0t-fsi-vw-and-audi-fuel-pump-control-module/. My issue is intermittent but so was _G_'s on the thread kash linked of which this fixed it for him, so I will definitely investigate this further.

Money is tight at the moment, but I will get Storm to look at the fuel pump control module and fuel filter for now as I cannot afford for them to have a full day trying to the diagnose the issue just yet.

_G_ mentions the in-tank fuel pump control unit, however the fuel pump control module I've been looking at isn't in the tank, am I looking at the right part where he's used incorrect terminology or is he on about a different part altogether?

69b2057aafe079e8b39107791f996f0f.png


Interesting to know as I always run mine on V-Power as my closest petrol station is Shell

I know that Shell V-Power Nitro+ and Tesco Momentum are both 99 ron fuels whereas Esso Supreme and BP Ultimate are only 97 ron. It's not the cause of my problem as I used to run Esso Supreme previously and still had the issue, however you've mentioned that yours is from cold whereas mine is predominately from hot, so it's worth you trying just in case it's an easy fix.
 
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HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
Ignore the part about me asking if I'm on about the right part, the fuel pump control module connects to the in-tank fuel pump, it's not inside it! I read a bit too much into _G_'s comment haha.
 

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
Right so I had a look at the fuel pump control module myself last night of which there appears to be no melting or other visible damage, however in _G_'s case there was no visible damage either but it was still sending the incorrect voltage. I checked the version of mine of which it ended in a C, I can't remember the whole number but it was definitely the right part I was looking at, however I can't seem to find it online. Mines a 2007 prefacelift S3 and there has been at least four revisions since then which obviously means that my module is prone to failure, making it plausible that it could still potentially be the cause of my problem.

As it is an older version, I'm tempted to just buy the latest revision 1K0 906 093 H anyway and get Storm to fit that along with a new fuel filter for now. A proper session of diagnoses and datalogging will come when I can afford to do so providing the above doesn't fix it of course.
 
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HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
If the part is reasonably priced, give it ago. *cross fingers* sorts it lol

For sure, I can't find any UK suppliers so I will speak to Mike on here but going buy the US pricing in dollars then it'll cost around £90.

I'm certain mine ended in a C (I will take a photo of it over the weekend) and the part number was in the same format as below, however I can't see anything online about a C fuel pump control module whatsoever. This makes me think (hope) that it could be the cause as an incorrect part is fitted, here are all of the known versions/revisions:
  • 1T0 906 093 D
  • 1T0 906 093 E
  • 1T0 906 093 F
  • 1T0 906 093 G
  • 1K0 906 093 H (Latest)
Online has all of the previous revisions for other parts such as diverter valves etc. however there is nout for 1T0 906 093 C/1K0 906 093 C (guessing the part number going by the other revisions) or C in general.
 

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
I went into Storm a couple of weeks ago for an MOT, have the press clutch to start bypass fitted, a quick look into the start up issue and to replace the fuel filter as well as it was still on the original one after 62K. I spoke to Mike on here about getting a fuel pump control module which are currently going for around £110, he was helpful and honest as ever stating that these parts are non-refundable, so as I'm skint then he wouldn't want to just take my money when my FPCM could be completely fine so get it tested first.

The MOT went fine thankfully, I just need two new tyres soon and so I will be opting for the Michelin PS4 again. My old fuel filter was clogged up with lots of sh1t apparently and needed doing, it surprises me that these are not part of the standard petrol service interval as well given how many people say that theirs are also clogged up, plus they're cheap & easy to replace. Storm said there was a fuel pressure fault stored (no EML for this, same fault has come up before) but didn't want to link it to the start up issue just yet so cleared it and said the best course of action would be to drop it off asap after the next time it does it. A good few days passed where there wasn't any issues, I knew it was way too early to tell if the fuel filter had done the trick but it was off to a good start.

Went to start her up yesterday afternoon as I was working from home and as it was sunny, decided on lunch to fit some gloss black Audi rings onto the boot where I had previously de-badged the chrome rings, but lo and behold no start up after 3/4 seconds.. I gave it a minute and tried again of which after a slow start up she was finally running fine. So called Storm and booked it in for lunch today for them to scan it etc. They were friendly and helpful as always, Andy hooked up his laptop of which he found that there was no faults whatsoever which seemed a tad strange but then I haven't ragged it since they cleared the code a couple of weeks ago. I explained everything that had been previously done and he said that judging by what he's seen so far, that it is most likely down to either the ECU (checking connections etc) or the fuel pump has gone. I also mentioned to him about the fuel pump control module and how that was the cause for someone with very similar problems in their petrol A3. I've booked in with them next Wednesday so they can investigate the ECU and FPCM as well as fit the two new tyres so will see how goes.

My gut is telling me that it is the fuel pump though. This is because my S3 has always had the problem since I got it in it's stock form nearly two years ago and VAS Motion found an intake manifold fault code when it first went in for the Revo stage 1 early last year (which I believe is the same fuel pressure fault code Storm found earlier this month). The settings were B6 F9 T4 which is really high for the fueling, so pushing what could be a faulty part way too hard, hence why I was getting an EML I never had before going stage 1. I informed VAS of the EML so they could investigate before they do the stage 2 remap of whom found the old fault again and advised that both fault codes were due to an intake manifold problem (more info here http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/conflicting-views-from-two-reputable-garages.293251/). The stage 2 settings were changed to B8 F8 T5 and the EML I was getting has not been back since, but I'm still getting the fuel pressure fault occur after a certain amount of time and as stated in the other thread linked, Storm couldn't find any problems with the intake manifold or runners etc and Alex at Storm suggested that the map could be requesting too much fuel when giving it some and the pump can't produce it. Also, I've recently found that the issue tends to be happening more when there is less fuel in the tank, the fuel light came on a couple of days ago and it's had several slow start ups since. The less fuel there is in the tank, specifically when running really low, then I know the fuel pump can become hot as it is not cooled by the fuel so if previous owners got in the habit of letting the fuel get really low, then it could've caused damage over time. The only positive I can take if it is the fuel pump and needs replacing is that I want to go stage 2+, so might as well go for the LOBA HPFP instead of buying a standard pump again and then fitting the Autoech internals later on. I already have the Spec 2+ clutch & Steel SMF but need it fitted, so could technically go stage 2+ with my poor mans exhaust for now and get the BCS Powervalve DP/TBE later on to unlock the full potential.

Quick question, I accidentally left the locking wheel nut in the box with the other bolts when selling my S3 alloys, do I need to replace it or can garages get around this no problem?

Will keep this updated.
 
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ab1702

Registered User
If you take a picture of the pattern on the locking wheel bolt then you can buy a replacement locking wheel nut for it. I'd use parts request or TPS though as I needed one there and then a few week back so had to go into Audi and they stung me for about £45 for one locking nut and bolt that matched my existing ones
 

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
If you take a picture of the pattern on the locking wheel bolt then you can buy a replacement locking wheel nut for it. I'd use parts request or TPS though as I needed one there and then a few week back so had to go into Audi and they stung me for about £45 for one locking nut and bolt that matched my existing ones

Nice one, cheers for the info mate.
 

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
Word of warning anyone reading this thread and looking to purchase a fuel pump control module, 1K0 906 093 H is actually the part number for an Audi A1 FPCM according to Mike, so not sure why online is saying that it's for the A/S3. If I need a new FPCM then I'll make sure to provide the correct part number.
 

Anthony Roger

Registered User
Hy my friends, I'm from Brazil and I'm having the same problem in my 2009 A3 Sportback 2.0 TFSI equiped with DSG .
However in my case the problem start to show after a service where was exchanged:

*Timing belt
*Water pump and tensors
*Sparks
*Fuel Filter
*Coolant Fluid (After flush).
*N80 Valve

I've exchange anothers things after:
*PCV Valve
*Thermostat (Complete)
*Camshaft and Crankshaft Seal
*Repair the Starter Motor

When the mechanic was cleaning the cooling system the water sprayed up in some sensor in the side of the Timing Belt (I cleaned them but nothing happens, problem persist no errors Logs).

The only error log is the P0441, as below:

001089 - EVAP Emission Control Sys
P0441 - 002 - Incorrect Flow
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100010
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 55299 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2017.23.06
Time: 15:55:39

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 841 /min
Load: 27.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 93.0°C
Temperature: 52.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 930.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.843 V

My car has less than 34.600 Miles.

I make this reading today with a VAG COM Device:
With the car off the Camshaft Adjustment is 28.0°KW, after start up goes to 46.0°KW

720 /min Engine Speed 091-1
6.3 % Intake Camshaft Duty Cycle 091-2
28.0°KW Camshaft Adjustment (spec.) 091-3
46.0°KW Camshaft Adjustment (act.) 091-4
720 /min Engine Speed 093-1
21.1 % Intake Camshaft Duty Cycle 093-2
Phase Position Bank 1 093-3
760 /min Bank 1 Camshaft Adjustment 094-1
46.0°KW Bank 2 Camshaft Adjustment 094-2
Test OFF Diagnostic Result 094-3

My suspect is the timing position or some sensor defective after get wet.
 

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
I dropped my S3 off at Storm last week for them to investigate the ECU and FPCM as well as fit two Michelin PS4 tyres and rear spacers. They removed the ECU and gave all the connectors a good clean, they said take it away for now but they're convinced that it is the FPCM.

It was fine for a couple of days, I then gave her a good raggin as that normally sets the issue off and as expected, next start-up was slow. Not redlining it or leaving it exposed in the sun on hot days is the only way it doesn't suffer from difficult start-ups which coincides with a faulty FPCM (https://shopdap.com/2-0t-fsi-vw-and-audi-fuel-pump-control-module/ this also mentions about the low fuel rail pressure error I suffer from). I've therefore booked it into Storm for the 25th to get it done, fingers crossed this fixes the problem once and for all!

Anthony Roger I'm no mechanic but judging by the work you had done prior to the fault starting then my guess would also lean towards a possible timing issue, most likely related to a faulty sensor after becoming exposed to water as you say. Best thing would be to take it back to your mechanic for him to investigate, has he got access to VCDS? Feel free to keep updating this thread but it may also be worth you creating a new thread as some users who might have some useful information may skip reading this thread.
 

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
SOLVED

It's been two weeks now since I've had the Fuel Pump Control Module replaced and there hasn't been a single slow start-up since, hot or cold! I have driven it countless times, both short and long journeys as well as several very spirited drives with no problems whatsoever. There's also been a couple of days where it was really sunny with high temps of which there wasn't any issues here either. I'll report back in a couple of months to see how I've been getting on, but given how frequent I was getting the problem towards the end, all is looking very positive!

I want to say a massive thank you to @kash_v for bringing the thread with the FPCM information to my attention, it seems like I searched for everything under the sun on the forum except for 'hard' start haha. Another big thanks goes to @_G_ for sharing his experience and knowledge with the FPCM, both you guys saved me time and money as I could tell Storm Developments what to look at without the need for them to do a logging session/further diagnostics.

Moral of the story is to just always take your car to a reputable garage, particularly one that specialises in your vehicle/engine/brand, especially if you've got a problem that isn't well recognised nor has an easy/cheap fix. Some of the parts I got replaced weren't a complete waste of money as they would've needed replacing eventually, but I have wasted a fair few hundred quid chucking money on parts like starter motor, sensors and labour by trying to fix it myself using guesswork.

Ah well, being a perfectionist and how much it was preventing me from fully enjoying the S3 for two years, all that I care about is that it's finally running 100%, so it's safe to say I'm very happy indeed!
 
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HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
NOT SOLVED :disappointed:

So it's been 3 months now since I had the FPCM replaced and whilst it has made a huge difference, it hasn't permanently fixed the problem annoyingly..

The intermittent start-ups are a lot less frequent now, however they'll still occur from time to time:
  • It happens whether the engine is hot or cold
  • Only ever happens when there's under half a tank of fuel
When I first brought this to Andy at Storm's attention earlier this year he suggested it could be the in-tank fuel pump (not HPFP) or ECU connectors. I got them to check the ECU which was all fine and it was after this hadn't sorted the issue that I said about the FPCM of which they checked & replaced as it had been found to be faulty. I spoke to Andy again after I found that the FPCM hadn't entirely fixed the problem, he said that it's perfectly possible that the in-tank fuel pump could well be faulty as well (as per his original comment) as it's located in the same area as the FPCM so whichever went first could have caused the other to go as well some time after.

I can't afford the time or money at the moment to leave my car there for days/weeks for them to do proper diagnostic sessions, so I'm going to replace the in-tank fuel pump with a revised one 1K0 919 051 DE to see if that does the trick once and for all!

I've been reading some more into the in-tank fuel pump off the back of the conversation with Andy and it definitely seems plausible this could be the cause. Others have found that it is letting fuel back into the pump and so there is not enough fuel for the injectors, hence why it just sits there cranking for a while. I already turn the key in the ignition twice and wait for a full sweep before starting, but someone also suggested doing this twice before starting which worked for others. This coincides with what I've found as whenever I have a non start-up, it always works 100% of the time on the second start up straight after, so I will be trying this myself.

I'll report back my findings after the new fuel pump has been fitted.
 

Marek196c

Gilera Runner / A3 Sportback
strange you still didn't give it a fire ;), however seriously, i'm sad for you being unlucky with it, did you tried to monitor the fuel pressure on cranking? like do some logs and check what parameters changing between normal and faulty starts?
 

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
Haha I've got to laugh otherwise I'd cry!

This is the thing, I don't own VCDS and the problem is so intermittent, it doesn't even happen when I expect it to sometimes. There's been a couple of occasions where I've left it at Storm for them to look at the ECU & FPCM and they've tried to replicate the start up issue during these times but failed to do so. I took it straight to them after a delayed start-up however there was no fault codes or anything stored.

I have no access to another vehicle apart from their old polo but I can only use that for a day or two at a time and I've been pretty busy recently travelling for courses etc. so couldn't leave mine with them. I can get a good deal on a new in-tank fuel pump so I'll give this a go and if that fails, I'll have to speak to Storm to see if we can come up with an arrangement where I leave it with them for a couple weeks during a period where I'll only be commuting to work and back so I can keep the polo for this.
 

Marek196c

Gilera Runner / A3 Sportback
i see, but you don t got any other obd2 connector with function of logging the values? I think even the cheapest 15£ ones can do it, or for 50£ you will get the chinese copy of vcds cable, that is good enough for logging.
 

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
I've got a OBD2 bluetooth adapter which I use to connect to my android HU to use the Torque Pro app to display boost, I haven't looked into it anymore than that so I didn't realise that they're capable of logging!

I will investigate this further in that case, do you know if the logging can be done in the Torque Pro app or is it another app?

Thank you for bringing this to my attention bud, it's much appreciated.
 

Marek196c

Gilera Runner / A3 Sportback
never used torque app but you can see if it got "advanced" view or things like that, or if you got any windows pc with bluetooth adapter they should find it and then probably any elm327 program should log the values.
Anyway this seem to be torque app forum: https://torque-bhp.com/forums/?wpforumaction=viewtopic&t=4531.0
 

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
Spot on thanks mate, looks like I've got a little project for the weekend!
 

martin1984

Registered User
I've got a OBD2 bluetooth adapter which I use to connect to my android HU to use the Torque Pro app to display boost, I haven't looked into it anymore than that so I didn't realise that they're capable of logging!

I will investigate this further in that case, do you know if the logging can be done in the Torque Pro app or is it another app?

Thank you for bringing this to my attention bud, it's much appreciated.
do you have a link to the bluetooth adapter you have ?
 

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
My car went in for a major service on August 4th and as I was able to get a good deal for an S3 Low Pressure Fuel Pump, I got this fitted at the same time. Three weeks had passed since then with no hiccups so all was looking well until yesterday's scorcher of a day!

It was 25 degrees and my car was parked in the sun of which all 3 start-ups throughout my journey were pro-longed.. I literally have no idea what it could possibly be now. All I do know is that outside temperature has a big part to play, it doesn't matter if the engine/oil etc. is hot or cold, but if the sun is beating down on the bonnet on a really hot day then my S3 does not like it at all. There's been plenty of other days where's it's been 20+ degrees but because my car has been in the car park under my work office in the shade, then it is absolutely fine. Also, when there is less fuel in the tank (under half) then this seems to make it more prone to suffer as well. This coincides when ragging it as well due to under the bonnet temps rising higher than normal causing the same problem to occur.

Data logging is all that's left for me to do which I'm going to try do myself instead of leaving it at Storm for them to deal with as I can't be without my car. I've got the Torque Pro app, does anyone have anyone experience in data logging with this please? As I've never done it before.

Just to reiterate the main points below again:
  • Replaced Coolant Temperature Gauge
  • Replaced Camshaft Position Sensor (Twice)
  • Replaced Crankshaft Sensor
  • Replaced Starter Motor
  • Replaced Low Pressure (in-tank) Fuel Pump
  • Replaced Fuel Pressure Control Module
  • Replaced Fuel Filter
  • Replaced Battery
  • Replaced Spark Plugs (Twice)
  • Replaced Coil Packs
  • Cleaned ECU Connectors
  • Replaced Cam Belt & Water Pump (Separate work)
  • Replaced Cam Chain & Tensioner (Separate work)
  • Fitted revised PCV and now Forge Plate Delete (Separate work)
  • Fitted Rev G DV and now GFB DV+ (Separate work)
  • Fitted Push Clutch To Start Bypass
  • Nothing has come up in several Services, MOT's or a Visual Inspection Test (at different main dealers and an Indy)
  • Hooked up to diagnosis equipment several times for separate work of which no fault codes have been given related to this, currently got no fault codes present
  • Problem was present at standard map on Esso Supreme 97 Fuel, was present at stage 1 with Shell V-Power Nitro+ 99 Fuel and is still present at stage 2 on Shell V-Power Nitro+ 99 Fuel
  • I let the dash do a full sweep before starting the car up
  • I never boot it from cold and always let the oil reach 90 degrees before ragging
  • The last minute or two of driving is always slow and if I've been tearing then I'll also idle for 30 seconds after the final slow drive before turning the car off
Thanks.
 

Marek196c

Gilera Runner / A3 Sportback
what about the injectors and the rail? Did you checked them? for logging with torque pro app, just google it , there is forum of that app saying how to do it.
 

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
It could well be either of those as it definitely seems to be a fueling issue of which most of the system has been replaced now. The main parts left are the injectors, rail, fuel lines and high pressure fuel pump so hopefully the Torque Pro app is capable of logging all of those, not sure how it would suggest there's a problem with the fuel lines though..

Perfect thanks I will have a look at how to do that then. Fingers crossed I'll be able to find an anomaly soon as this has been a problem for over two years now, annoyingly the weather has cooled down and I've just filled up with petrol which will delay things.
 

george_seamons

I'm on the naughty step
I had a similar issue, not sure what exactly it is, but mine seems to be worse when it's cold. I find that if I turn the ignition on, let the fuel pump prime, then turn it off, then back on to prime (a bit like you did with old diesel cars with glow plugs), it cured it. It didn't do it every single time though, so hard to tell exactly when it would've done it or not, but I've now trained myself to do the "2 turn startup" every time, and I've not had the problem in over a year.

I had read that it was a fuel pressure issue, and basically if the car was left for a long while (my issue was after leaving the car for several days without using it), the fuel basically drained out of the fuel pipes, and the short priming time wasn't enough to build the pressure back up, whereas priming it twice gave enough pressure.

Something to try at least?
 

Marek196c

Gilera Runner / A3 Sportback
injectors are pretty easy to check on bench and there are special tools for it like: ebay + cup
 

HHS3

Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+
I had a similar issue, not sure what exactly it is, but mine seems to be worse when it's cold. I find that if I turn the ignition on, let the fuel pump prime, then turn it off, then back on to prime (a bit like you did with old diesel cars with glow plugs), it cured it. It didn't do it every single time though, so hard to tell exactly when it would've done it or not, but I've now trained myself to do the "2 turn startup" every time, and I've not had the problem in over a year.

I had read that it was a fuel pressure issue, and basically if the car was left for a long while (my issue was after leaving the car for several days without using it), the fuel basically drained out of the fuel pipes, and the short priming time wasn't enough to build the pressure back up, whereas priming it twice gave enough pressure.

Something to try at least?

Thanks for the suggestion George. In the hours of digging around online for more information on my problem, I came across the priming twice method you mentioned. I gave this ago on Monday when it was really hot however it made no difference unfortunately. When the problem occurs, it'll normally crank for 2/3 seconds and then finally turn over, or if it cranks for longer I stop and then it'll always turn over normally 100% of the time on the second attempt.

injectors are pretty easy to check on bench and there are special tools for it like: ebay + cup

I've googled how to data log with Torque Pro so I'm going to set it up tonight to get a history of logs to compare to for the next time it happens. R-Tech do an injector, HPFP & inlet valves service and so I'm tempted to get this done when I go there to get my BCS DP fitted and custom stage 2 remap early next year, as my S3 is at 65K and in need of a decoke.
 
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