2003 V6 3.0 engine tuning options?

[dan_b]

Hi everybody
Very new to the forum, have recently sold my beloved, and not standard, 1991 3B S2 Coupe for a 2003 A4 Avant 3.0V6 quattro Sport (family reasons!).

It's a gorgeous car in every way, but the other night I found myself needing more grunt...

I completely appreciate that being a non-turbo car, I am more restricted in what can be achieved than what a re-map on a turbo can do, but I would like to know what can be done and for what sort of cost?

I know Mihnea from MRC Tuning, and if I do go for a remap I'd more than likely go with him, but what other gains can be had (for not too much money!)? What other ECU tuning companies are there?

Cheers
Dan_b

 

[dummi]

talk to Mihnea he will sort you out

 

[dan_b]

Ok haven't found much on here about tuning the 220ps V6 - I've read elsewhere about re-maps being able to get 20ps and 30nm gain on this engine - is that really true? Is that actually enough to be felt by the driver in a 1.6 ton car? I figure that's pretty good theoretical gain for a re-map on an NA engine? Is that a good gain for the ~£450 cost?

What mechanical mods have proven power and torque gains on the V6 engine?

 

[dstech]

I had the ECU re-mapped by Powerchip and added a less restrictive cone intake. Next I added the Borla catback exhaust. I think the next mod I'll do is add high flow Cats. I think with all that I've done so far it's probably good for about 10-20HP at the flywheel. I don't think you can get 20HP with just a chip, in fact I would put money on the table to bet that you can't. I noticed the biggest improvement when I put the intake and exhaust on, it really opened her up. The RPMS rev much faster but I feels like I lost a little low end torque.

 

[dan_b]

@Dstech
Thanks for the info - don't forget though that in the UK we can now get easy access to 99 Octane petrol, so gains could potentially be good.

Has anyone done anything with cams on this engine, or is that very expensive?

Have you got a picture of your cone in the engine bay? Did it change the sound of the engine much?

Just strikes me that for a modern 3.0l v6, 220ps is fairly under-stressed!

 

[dan_b]

Just had a quote from AmD for a Miltek cat-back exhaust system. Has anyone fitted one of these - anyone got any figures for performance gains? What's the sound like?

 

[dan_b]

So does anyone have any photos, sound clips, or power figures, of what a v6 is like with a cone filter in there?

 

[dstech]

Sorry, I forgot to reply. The CONE filter gives off a "whooshing" sound due to the air being sucked into the intake, and this sound is only heard at Wide Open Throttle. It definitely didn't make the engine noticeably louder.

Here's a picture of the cone filter installed on my car:

Here's a picture of one installed on another 3.0L:

I don't have a dyno plot of after the install but I do know my baseline in case I ever do get it retested. This particular unit comes with a heatshield and beather hose filter. It's sold by www.Stratmosphere.com

 

[dan_b]

Cheers for the pictures - can I ask you what the little cone filter you've got just to the right of the main one is?

Do you feel it altered the performance at all?

On my S2, the cone increased the "Sucking" noise hugely, which was good fun. It did cause heat soak issues though if the car was stationary for any length of time even with a heatshield - is this an issue with the V6 (ie no very very hot turbo in close proximity).

What did you do with the old airbox, have you retained it in case you want to go back to stock? How simple is that to remove?

What's the MAF diameter for getting the right sized cone?

Lastly, any particular suppliers recommended?

Sorry for the barrage of questions!

 

[dstech]

can I ask you what the little cone filter you've got just to the right of the main one is?
-It is the crankcase breather tube. You actually have to cut off this plastic tube to fit the filter. The heat sheild has mounting holes drilled on it to keep this in place. I actually had to drill new holes because my Bi-Xenon ballasts were hitting it. I know when they originally designed this intake system Bi-Xenons were not an option in North America.

Do you feel it altered the performance at all?
-I "Thought" I noticed the car would rev slightly faster and you definitely hear the air rushing into the engine now. I also have an ECU remap by Powerchip, which was setup for an aftermarket intake and exhaust.

On my S2, the cone increased the "Sucking" noise hugely, which was good fun. It did cause heat soak issues though if the car was stationary for any length of time even with a heatshield - is this an issue with the V6 (ie no very very hot turbo in close proximity).
-Heat soak is not an issue in the summer months. It typically gets in the 80F range here in Michigan and I noticed no ill effects of having the cone intake. I think Turbo cars are the only ones that really suffer from open intake systems.

What did you do with the old airbox, have you retained it in case you want to go back to stock? How simple is that to remove?
-I have the old airbox but the intake runner tubing is hacked up so I'd need to replace that, but the meat of the airbox is still in one piece, so yes I could reinstall it if I wanted.

What's the MAF diameter for getting the right sized cone?
-I need to double check this but I think the opening diameter is around 3.75"

Lastly, any particular suppliers recommended?
-This particular product is only sold by Stratmosphere.com (Hyperflow intake). They have a nice kit that includes MAF adaptor, heat shield, breather tube filter, cone filter, and hose clamps.

I have dyno plots of my base car in stock form. I also have a plot after the ECU remap (no significant change). I still have yet to get the car dyno'd with all the engine mods, but I plan to do have this done by July.

 

[dan_b]

@Dan - thanks for the extensive reply!

 

[dan_b]

So, £299 for the AMD remap which gives a claimed 10bhp and 10nm increase on 98 octane fuel - sounds like a good deal?

£399 would include a rolling road test with before and after plots.

 

[doeboy]

B5 owner, i had my 2.8Q done last month at chippeduk. Cost me £250 might be a tad more for your car being newer etc... that was including rolling road too.

Anyhow i'd recommend it. I call tell you that it's quicker, he quoted about 18hp on top my my 193. Its alot quicker and more responsive, for the money it's great would recommend it.

I also use Shell Vfuel 99 octane only because i can feel the difference. Now age might be a factor with that as my audi's a 98 model. But even then i'm happy at the power i have.....for now.

 

[dan_b]

Hey, that's a very good price to include rolling road - did you get graphed outputs from that as well?

I'm really leaning toward the re-map now. Might give MRC another call just to see.

 

[Elberoth]

I would skip tunning a N/A engine altogether. Simply not worth the money. For 4000 EUR (+ 1000 EUR for the labour) you can get a very low mileage S4 engine, complete with ECU, gearbox, tacho, radiators etc - that is 344 factory hp.

Now, after doing a swap (a simple, plug & play 1 day job) you sell your engine with gearbox for aprox 2500 EUR to some unhappy 1.6l owner

2500EUR may soud like lot of money at first - but belivve me, it is MUCH cheaper than any BT job. And at least, it WILL get you some HP.

 

[46TheDoctor]

Even easier option, bang a supercharger and front mount intercooler in there, i converted my vr6 golf and increased mt hp by roughly 100 ponies, i would think it would be pretty much the same kit for your car, Nik Saran racing in london did it, it cost me just shy of 3k including the AMD remap all labour and parts, and my car was only off the road for 2 days.

 

[dummi]

you would skip the intercooler for supercharging. there is a company in the USA that do superchargers for the v6 with good results, i forget the name of the company i'm sure someone else will remember.

 

[Elberoth]

IMO remapping a ME7.5 ECU is quite a challenge. Besides, I would rather go for reliable, factory power.

 

[dummi]

just remembered it was PES

 

[dan_b]

The point is here that I have bought the 3.0V6 which cost me a lot of money, the car needs to stay on the road and stay useable as a daily driver by my better half - I have no intention of making major mechanical mods to it. I want to keep it close to stock: have been there, done that, with heavy mechanical mods on my S2. A discreet remap would be perfect if it is reasonably priced and produces reasonable results.

I have read about the supercharger option and it is interesting, but out of the question for me with my situation. MRC have offered me a very interesting deal on a re-map so we will see what gains they can extract. I'll report back when it is done.

 

[icecavern]

I think AMD do a remap which gives another 15bhp over stock.

Does anyone have more info on the supercharging for this engine? I'm looking to buy an S3 at the minute but I'd love an A4 with a chunk of power, the 3.0 V6 comes in at about the same price as the S3, but without the 50bhp increase possible with a chip.

EDIT: just had a look on the PES website and it says NSracing are thier UK importer. Fired off an email might give them a call if no responce. $5500 for the supercharger kit, but I think that's excluding the remap.

Pete

 

[dan_b]

AmD claim 10bhp and 10nm with a remap for £299 (not a rolling-road verified figure or a custom-to-your-car map though), and if you buy a sports exhaust from them at the same time they claim a gain of 15bhp +15nm. The exhaust is about £750 ish I think, so brings the total in over a grand. Too much for me!

I'll see how I get on with the guys at MRC.

 

[icecavern]

Let us know how you get on.

 

[dan_b]

Yep will do, just trying to organize a mutually free day with Mihnea and Doug at the moment, proving tricky, they're busy people!

 

[dan_b]

So, spent the evening at MRC last night re-mapping my V6 with genuine noticable results.

I can report that with 3 in the car, on the private uphill MRC test track, I was past the measuring isign over 5mph faster on Mihnea's custom map than stock. Mihnea was able to run 6 degrees of advance over stock on full load on WOT, which is not bad considering the stock map was retarding on the same load, even on 99octane gas! We raised the rev limit as well, screw the Audi red-line!!

Mihnea decided it wasn't worth altering the cam timings as they are pretty much on the button - the thing that would help the top end most would be better breathing cams, but I'm not about to crack the head and purchase 4 new cams just yet...

All in all, I'm happy - I realise I was never going to get a turbo-remap scale of increased performance, but the gains are there and they are noticeable. Had a rather quick drive home that's for sure

For me it was also completely fascinating watching Mihnea at work. It was like watching those scenes from The Matrix with all the raw code flashing on the screen - Mihnea studying the numbers and changing things on the fly - amazing!

So a big thank you to Mihnea, and also to your friend who was there with the chipped RS4 - oh my Lord how fast was that!